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CaringandReal -> RE: Am I being unreasonable? (8/10/2009 6:31:20 PM)
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A lot of interesting posts in this one. Combining three responses in one, boom! boom! BOOM!
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ORIGINAL: Missokyst
In this day of web cam monitoring, I wouldn't be surprised if baby sitters were being watched.
Just something to keep in mind.
Excellent advice.
What sort of "owner" wouldn't think of that or at least advise her to take some care (although how you would take care in such a situation is beyond me, the cams could be anywhere).
There's never enough detail given in a thread-starting post to know for certain what the true circumstances are, though. Since it's her sister, perhaps her owner knows the family she sits for very well, and knows they don't have webcams. Or perhaps that is not so and his ignorance is forcing her to take a big risk. We may never know.
If I were given that order, I wouldn't think I could refuse but, assuming I was allowed to speak freely, I would express my concerns about its safety, if I had any, or my emotional discomfort, if I had the latter. (This is her sister after all, and some people might well experience such an act as "desecrating" the dwelling of someone they care a lot about. It's kind of superstitious to feel this way, but I know plenty of people who would.) And then I'd do whatever he told me to do after that...and we'd both live with the consequences of the act, if any.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tazzy
"a slave obeys... until they no longer obey... then they are no longer a slave to that man."
Or perhaps... A slave obeys...until they no longer obey...and then the master (and only the master, not the slave and certainly not some general principle that sounds good on paper) decides whether she is still a slave to that man and what the consequences of her disobedience will be. Only him. If she decides for him that she is no longer his slave, because she read somewhere that disobedience = nonslavery, then she never was his slave to begin with, I would think.
Also, if what you said were true, there would not be any long-term or permanent slaves anywhere because every one of us disobeys, large or small, in one way or another, eventually. We're human. And when we are owned, we are owned humans, at best our masters' tools, nothing more. Something that could seriously endanger these sorts of relationships is a belief on either the owner's part or property's part that the slave will never mess up or never disobey. If you or he believe you cannot or should not ever slip, you may hide your actual slips from obedience from your owner or even from yourself. On the other hand, if you believe you're only human and humans err and all of that, then you know you will disobey even if you try your utmost not ever to do so, and it may even be a big disobedience. But it will be much easier to admit the lapse to your owner when it does happen, and he will be able to intervene early to fix things. Yes, you will lose a little pride in yourself when you do, but what's pride to a slave anyway besides an insidiously clever enemy to be vanquished? I suppose you do run a small risk that your master will dismiss you if you are open enough with him to admit you fucked up or didn't obey out of fear or anger or some other emotion. But as most masters like to consider themselves godlike (whether they admit it or not), perhaps they will show you the compassion and forgiveness that the deity they identify with would have demonstrated toward a mere mortal. (Although, if he happens to identify with Cizin, I'd say all bets are off.)
quote:
ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
This comes back to a point I've been tossing about that having any sort of deep emotionally-based morality or faith is inherently contradictory to having a slave mindset (unless, as has been mentioned, the slave is lucky enough to be in a relationship with someone who won't expect of her the things she wouldn't want anyway).
Yes, the two are contradictory. What you're speaking of is what I call the "you can't serve two masters" idea. And you really can't (although I suspect some people do a lot of mental gymnastics to convince themselves that they can). Years ago, I had a "belief system" that I was quite passionate about, but I realized the inherent contradiction with holding/pursuing it and being owned, and it deeply concerned me. I spoke to my first owner extensively about this before he finalized things between us. He understood, and, as benevolent and kind as he was with me, made it clear to me that I couldn't serve both. He didn't require me to give up anything I was currently doing at that time, just to acknowledge that his will, his commands, would always come first before anything I did with it or anything it instructed me to do. I thought about this a lot, thought about the reality of what he offered me verses the philosophical promises of the other (it was a clever belief system, more of a methodology than a proclamation of beliefs, but of the "if you don't learn/do this before you die you're totally screwed" variety), then I gave up on the belief system being paramount. It wasn't Christianity, but in a sense, when I gave it up, I felt as though I was damning my soul. It was not an easy choice. I cared, deeply, about abandoning this first commitment. I still wonder what would have happened if I hadn't. At the same time I don't regret my decision or a minute of the time that I spent with my owner, even the last hard six years. I wish I could paint this better for myself and say something like, "Oh well I was seeking truth, the belief system was all about seeking truth, and he (my master) was a deeper truth so there's no conflict lalala." But, lol, that would be something of a misstatement. The truth was that I wanted to fufill a deep sexual yearning and that desire overwhelmed my desire to find truth in life. The funny thing is, the belief system dealt a lot with the clash of people's personal or parochial morality and doing something perhaps better or at least different, and in some ways its ideas helped prepare me to think through and accept the consequences of slavery seriously. But I still abandoned it! (laughs)
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