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Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/10/2009 10:59:57 PM

Esinn

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No longer are you allowed to say in Intelligent Design School, "god Did It!" and expect an A+

They really ramp it up and make it hard for their students now! Fo Sho!

Look how you get graded:
"20% of the final marks come from having made 10 posts defending ID on ‘hostile’ websites! This could explain a lot"

This is fo' real. One of the most important and community respected folks in the ID movement - that no lie:

Dembski Exam by William A Dembski - designinference.com Thanks to Baron Scarpia for alerting us to this website, which outlines the rigorous academic standards [Quote-miners, please note: this is sarcasm] which William Dembski’s students have to achieve in his courses on Intelligent Design and Christian Apologetics at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary:

http://www.designinference.com/teaching/teaching.htm

If you follow the links, you will see that it is full of gems: we won’t spoil them for you by flagging them all up, but – just to whet your appetite – you will notice that, at both undergrad and masters level, there are courses for which 20% of the final marks come from having made 10 posts defending ID on ‘hostile’ websites! This could explain a lot.

You may be less amused at some of the questions in the final exam of the Christian Faith and Science module: http://www.designinference.com/teaching/2008_fall_sci-faith_mdiv/final_exam_10dec08.pdf. In particular, this one:

Trace the connections between Darwinian evolution, eugenics, abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia. Why are materialists so ready to embrace these as a package deal? What view of humanity and reality is required to resist them?

And this one:

You are the Templeton Foundation’s new program director and are charged with overseeing its programs and directing its funds. Sketch out a 20-year plan for defeating scientific materialism and the evolutionary worldview it has fostered if you had $50,000,000 per year in current value to do so. What sorts of programs would you institute? How would you spend the money

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/10/2009 11:16:28 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
If you follow the links, you will see that it is full of gems: we won’t spoil them for you by flagging them all up, but – just to whet your appetite – you will notice that, at both undergrad and masters level, there are courses for which 20% of the final marks come from having made 10 posts defending ID on ‘hostile’ websites! This could explain a lot.

You mean those morons actually believe in the internet? I'm surprised; it's not mentioned in the bible.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/10/2009 11:19:15 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

"Trace the connections between Darwinian evolution, eugenics, abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia. Why are materialists so ready to embrace these as a package deal? What view of humanity and reality is required to resist them?
And this one:
You are the Templeton Foundation’s new program director and are charged with overseeing its programs and directing its funds. Sketch out a 20-year plan for defeating scientific materialism and the evolutionary worldview it has fostered if you had $50,000,000 per year in current value to do so. What sorts of programs would you institute? How would you spend the money ?"

There are no connections. Such concepts reside only in the imagination of modern intelligence and its discovery and in no way have the scientist OR materialist so-called...embraced them as a package deal.

I'd spend the money teaching the young to rely upon science and to go where the real evidence leads them. As Prof. Mortimer Adler told the world when having been an agnostic until his 40's...to be baptized as Catholic was a...leap of faith.

For the secular among us...it need be no more than that.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/10/2009 11:20:11 PM

DomKen

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Bill Dembski is a joke. That course syllabus is one of the most absurd things I've ever read.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/10/2009 11:22:26 PM

SteelofUtah

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Sure it is, only back in the day the connection had to be got way up high in the mountains and you needed stone tablets to print on.

Didn't you know Dal.Net used Lightening to Power the first BB.

Okay Only Weal and Twue Geeks got that joke.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 7:44:23 PM

Taggerung

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I love it. Epic love for this. (Read: major sarcasm)

I have several christian friends I love dearly. Im an athiest personally and we get along great. Its people like this that makes christians look stupid and extreme. It would make me laugh if I didn't know that some people actually believe it.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 9:06:54 PM

awmslave

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Actually, I like the exam. It requires knowledge and the ability to discuss things logically. A student with brain and knowledge can get A regardless what he believes. Exams evolutionists give in regular colleges are often much worse: student needs mostly just memorizing ability.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 9:21:30 PM

Arpig

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quote:

Exams evolutionists give in regular colleges are often much worse: student needs mostly just memorizing ability.

That's because in an exam on evolutionary theory, the facts speak for themselves, they don't need to be twisted and cajoled into making an argument.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 9:37:08 PM

cornflakegirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave
evolutionists

I'm sorry, that term just always gives me the giggles.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 9:49:25 PM

VanIsleKnight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taggerung

I love it. Epic love for this. (Read: major sarcasm)

I have several christian friends I love dearly. Im an athiest personally and we get along great. Its people like this that makes christians look stupid and extreme. It would make me laugh if I didn't know that some people actually believe it.

Christian also. Really dislike the types that make us all seem like backwater home-schooled "mama says this happens because God did it" extremists. I firmly believe in Heaven, Hell, God, Jesus, Satan, and the whole born again speaking in tongues thing. However I understand that a lot of wrong has been done in Christianity's name (like any other powerful ideology or popular name) and that behaving like a religious bigot or a very closed-minded individual is not the best way to 1) act Christian or 2) draw people.

This happens though with many religions I think though, extremists who decide to declare a holy war.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 9:50:21 PM

NihilusZero

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Anyone who thinks Dembski is a hoot should do a search for Kent Hovind.

Although I do have a certain fondness for Dembski...mostly related to his being tied to Michael Shermer in some creationism debates from a number of years ago that were spectacular.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 10:01:06 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Anyone who thinks Dembski is a hoot should do a search for Kent Hovind.

Isn't he that "Dr. Dino" guy, with the dinosaur theme park depicting people riding velociraptors? Or am I thinking of someone else?

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 10:08:10 PM

DomKen

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Hovind is still one of my favorites for his defence on why he didn't have to pay taxes. He claimed everything he owned and earned was god's not his. The IRS and the judge were not amused. He's doing 10 years for his tax evasion.

Some of the other leading lights of the creationist movement have also been unintentionally hilarious.

Michael Behe while testifying in the Dover trial admitted that any definition of science that included intelligent design also included astrology.

Ken Ham, the guy behind the creationist 'museum' in Kentucky, is currently have a fit over the fact that skeptics that recently toured the 'museum' have publicized the fact that the 'museum' includes the Hamite theory of origins for Africans which was a major component of christian support of American slavery.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 10:09:28 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Anyone who thinks Dembski is a hoot should do a search for Kent Hovind.

Isn't he that "Dr. Dino" guy, with the dinosaur theme park depicting people riding velociraptors? Or am I thinking of someone else?

That's the guy. He's in jail and the theme park is closed and about to be sold for back taxes. Google his name and tax evasion to get the whole story its hilarious.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 10:33:12 PM

awmslave

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quote:

That's because in an exam on evolutionary theory, the facts speak for themselves, they don't need to be twisted and cajoled into making an argument.

It is true that evolutionary theory is based on observations. Although, an intelligent design supporter would say the evolution was built into the system. A "naive darvinist" would say: we do not need an intelligent designer. Then an intelligent design scholar would ask how did life (and several other things) originate and discount the darvinist explanation (current hypotheses) as bullcrap. The fact is we have not been able to scientifically test the theories of the origin of life and many other things (the origin of large organ systems for example). Personally, I think, intelligent design hyothesis is worth discussion in every evolutionary course. Beauty of the laws of Nature needs to be recognized by students. As well as the question: where all things came from (from chaos?).

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/11/2009 11:12:45 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

quote:

That's because in an exam on evolutionary theory, the facts speak for themselves, they don't need to be twisted and cajoled into making an argument.

It is true that evolutionary theory is based on observations. Although, an intelligent design supporter would say the evolution was built into the system. A "naive darvinist" would say: we do not need an intelligent designer. Then an intelligent design scholar would ask how did life (and several other things) originate and discount the darvinist explanation (current hypotheses) as bullcrap. The fact is we have not been able to scientifically test the theories of the origin of life and many other things (the origin of large organ systems for example). Personally, I think, intelligent design hyothesis is worth discussion in every evolutionary course. Beauty of the laws of Nature needs to be recognized by students. As well as the question: where all things came from (from chaos?).

The Theory of Evolution does not have anything to do with how life started. The ToE is only concerned with what happened after life appears. Abiogenesis is the study of the ultimate origin of life. No really good theory yet exists for how life began but it is a dynamic field with a lot of research ongoing.

However we have never yet found any evidence what so ever for any supernatural event and there is no reason to believe that abiogenesis requires one. If you wish to believe that a hebrew war god created the first self replicating macromolecule you're welcome to that belief but do not be surprised when science establishes that it happened without supernatural interference.

As to the origin of large organ systems, those are all well understood and copious research is available both on the fossil and biochemical evidence.

Intelligent Design is no more worthy of discussion in biology courses than the myth that a cow licked the world free from a block of ice (Norse origin story). Religious myths belong in folklore and comparitive religion courses not in biology classes.

If you wish for intelligent design to be considered by the scientific community then some piece of positive evidence must be presented. Pointing out gaps in present knowledge won't do it. Complaining that reality contradicts your religion won't do it. One piece of evidence that contradicts the ToE but is explained by ID is required.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/12/2009 12:08:42 AM

Esinn

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Joined: 6/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taggerung

I love it. Epic love for this. (Read: major sarcasm)

I have several christian friends I love dearly. Im an athiest personally and we get along great. Its people like this that makes christians look stupid and extreme. It would make me laugh if I didn't know that some people actually believe it.

A belief that a invisible god turned itself into its son, while it ruling in heaven, so it could die a brutal and humiliating death ....

Even friends can be stupid.
(I like your hat)

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/12/2009 6:50:57 PM

MarsBonfire

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Just as an aside: I was listening to the radio the other day while driving in to work, and heard that the "Creation Museum" is in receivership... bankrupt. (Finacially... not just intellectually.)

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/12/2009 7:35:18 PM

Esinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Just as an aside: I was listening to the radio the other day while driving in to work, and heard that the "Creation Museum" is in receivership... bankrupt. (Finacially... not just intellectually.)

Which one? Not Ken's? I was just there with Pz Myers on Friday - heard nothing about it. It was very cool! There were about 250 of us. Ken is a wack job. I had the privileged of publicly insulting him when he came to one of the local churches around here.

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RE: Unintelligent Design - how to get an A+ - 8/12/2009 7:39:56 PM

MarsBonfire

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The one in Kentucky, according to the report...

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