That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (Full Version)

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RCdc -> That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 2:23:36 PM)

In another thread - I stated I would not open another thread discussing another religion because I did not believe that there would be the same interest in discussion other gods or another monotheistic god.
Basically because if it isn't christian - or Islamic - no one cares.
 
But that is pessimistic of me.  I like to be ever the optimist!
So, that said...
 
In the Baha'i Faith - an monothesitic faith - God is omniscient, omnipresent and beyond human comprehension.  That the reasons humans exist is to meditate and through prayer - understand and learn to love this god.
 
It is a all encompassing belief where each messenger all have meaning and relivance.  That's Jesus, Muhammed,  Krishana - you name them, they are part of god and part of the greater understanding and wisdom of this being.
 
So, in a religion where fanaticism is banned, and monasticism is forbidden and the needs and wants of society are placed at the forefront.  Should this god - be worshiped?
 
the.dark.




FullCircle -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 2:50:37 PM)

Don't you find a multi faith god a bit socially convenient in terms of the differences between various religious laws? It seems to me a bit like the religious answer to secular fairness and equal representation.

i.e. we need laws based on religious morality representing all the religions rather than just realising religion and morality are independent from one another?




DomKen -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 3:06:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
So, in a religion where fanaticism is banned, and monasticism is forbidden and the needs and wants of society are placed at the forefront.  Should this god - be worshiped?

Baha'i isn't quite that enlightened but it is better than most. If someone absolutely has to believe in some supernatural being then I'm fine with it being the Baha'i god. Although I'm not sure if worship is the correct term for how the Baha'i believe they interact with their deity.

I will admit to having spent quite a bit of time at the Baha'i temple just north of my home. It is one of the rare religious structures which I feel truly connects to man's spiritual side.

http://www.bahai.us/bahai-temple

If you haven't been there and are ever in the Chicago area make an effort to see it.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 4:32:43 PM)

The thing is, I think everyone should have the right to worship any way they see fit, and any-thing- they find relevant. Heck, worship a Twinkie if you think you can see the Universe in there somewhere -- the thing is, the Baha'i that I've known aren't really into proselytizing and they don't try pushing their beliefs out as laws that people who aren't part of their circle have to follow.

The thing that I've sort of picked up from the Baha'i I've known is that there isn't really any dichotomy between the aspects of their belief -- it isn't as contradictory as it seems, once you add in the realization that God is -supposed- to be beyond understanding, and the (simplified) belief that all gods are just GOD, within the limits of perception of that culture... so it really is just sort of an expansion of the Trinity concept in Christianity (Catholicism), where GOD is Father (YVHW), Son (Christ), and Holy Spirit... three god-ish parts, but in reality, only one GOD... like if you could take of your hand or your eye and leave them somewhere to do their thing, but still have them be -you-. So basically, the concepts of Baha'i can be broken down into "meditate and pray to understand GOD", and "until you can understand GOD -- which isn't going to happen-- it doesn't really matter which -face- of GOD, represented by god and explained by X Prophet, you focus on, because in the end, they're all just GOD anyway."

Really, there are a lot of religions out there, and I've already conceded that, though I don't find 'god' an interesting concept, I -do- see some benefit to the ritual and community that encircle religions. Beliefs are basically -opinions- that we develop a fixation on, and that's fine, as long as we don't drag someone -else- into our delusion by force, or by passive-aggressive manipulation (ie, making "morality laws" that basically enforce our religious beliefs as civil laws... for our own good, of course). Beliefs can be identified, if we're willing to be honest with ourselves, by looking to see what ideas we cling to, and know we would -continue- to cling no matter how much solid evidence was provided to refute it. I see them in me. I don't have the 'god' issue -- something might, some day, sway me, and if it does, I'll know it... but I have other things that I do -believe-, and where you could talk until you were blue and you'd never really sway me, even if I stopped arguing. However, I don't think that the general population should have their morality legislated just so we don't make one or two groups uncomfortable by having to see, hear, or be exposed to things that -they- don't like. The Baha'i that I've known haven't been into worrying about other peoples' morality -- they're more interested in doing what they can to understand God, because the ones I've known have had this idea that if they could understand God, they'd finally understand the scope of human behavior, too, and all the things that seem 'off' would make perfect sense.

So, long story short... yeah, they should be able to worship anything that they believe in...

DC




pyroaquatic -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 5:10:13 PM)

In the process of attempting to obtain the unattainable.... understanding God.... you understand yourself. A clever introspective exercise.....




kittinSol -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 5:53:07 PM)

If god is omniscient, why does it require worshipping?




Deicide -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 6:01:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

In another thread - I stated I would not open another thread discussing another religion because I did not believe that there would be the same interest in discussion other gods or another monotheistic god.
Basically because if it isn't christian - or Islamic - no one cares.
 
But that is pessimistic of me.  I like to be ever the optimist!
So, that said...
 
In the Baha'i Faith - an monothesitic faith - God is omniscient, omnipresent and beyond human comprehension.  That the reasons humans exist is to meditate and through prayer - understand and learn to love this god.
 
It is a all encompassing belief where each messenger all have meaning and relivance.  That's Jesus, Muhammed,  Krishana - you name them, they are part of god and part of the greater understanding and wisdom of this being.
 
So, in a religion where fanaticism is banned, and monasticism is forbidden and the needs and wants of society are placed at the forefront.  Should this god - be worshiped?
 
the.dark.


 
Well, it would depend partly on your usage of 'should'. The Baha'i are an interesting group, and in some ways are a cut above the abrahamic traditions ethically, but I don't see how this relates to 'should'.  I think I'm nice and interesting does that mean you should worship me? One might ask, why would this or any other god that is claimed to be good and all knowing want to be worshiped? With souls and angels lieing around giving him the perverbial bj all day long? Any truly good god would not encourage worship of itself, as that is the peak of vanity (or of kinkyness).




Arpig -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 8:15:53 PM)

The Bah'ai also believe that homosexuality can be cured and overcome.  They aren't totally enlightened.




kittinSol -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 8:25:43 PM)

Sikhism is a pretty cool religion. I wish for them to gain more converts.





SpinnerofTales -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 8:33:47 PM)

This faith has possibilities....imagine being able to say to your boss "I'm going to need time off for Yom Kippur, Good Friday, Ramadan, Quanza, etc".....this could be something.





LotusSong -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 8:37:30 PM)

Worshiped.. why.. when a simple heartfelt "Thank You" will do :)




rightwinghippie -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/13/2009 9:23:54 PM)

Depends on what exactly is meant by Worship also. Is dancing and Playing Music worship, Is enjoying the Sunshine, or the cold Worship? Is Walking in Beauty Worship? Can Sex be worship? Helping a person in need? I think so. Worship isn't a kneel and pray on Sunday thing.




Esinn -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/14/2009 12:41:13 AM)

Their is no evidence any religion has any divine truth or exists outside of the brain of the individual believer.  Therefore this faith is more irrational than the others for the attempt to logically group them together.

If something is beyond human comprehension it is simply that.  To suggest something is beyond the comprehension of the human mind but can be comprehended by the human mind is a misunderstanding of the word comprehension, ignorance or a logical contradiction - a square circle.  It is not possible for the human mind to comprehend what is uncomprehendable to it.

Much study has been done on meditation.  Prayer is just a delusional form, in most cases, of meditation which suggests special power for you to communicate with the thing you call god(no one elses) using some form of telepathy which has never been identified you(the process by which it works).

I am down for some some awe in nature. Some respect for nature.  I see value in meditation.

But suggesting you believe you can comprehend what is not comprehendable is silly.  It is like me asking you what time it was before time T = 0

Or me asking what is north of the north pole?

Just like you could speculate as a child what santa was going to bring so can you pretend you know these things.  That is all it is pretend for adults who wish to remain with their toys.




Deicide -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/14/2009 12:47:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Sikhism is a pretty cool religion. I wish for them to gain more converts.




I enjoy Sikhism because of it's ties to the Punjabi. It's just a fun word to say. Punjabi! Always makes me smile for some reason.




Ialdabaoth -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/14/2009 1:56:38 AM)

If we worship an all-inclusive God, are we still allowed to condemn others for being different than us, and then sadistically torture and murder them?




VanityFix -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/14/2009 4:40:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Much study has been done on meditation.  Prayer is just a delusional form, in most cases, of meditation which suggests special power for you to communicate with the thing you call god(no one elses) using some form of telepathy which has never been identified you(the process by which it works).

I am down for some some awe in nature. Some respect for nature.  I see value in meditation.



i see prayer and meditation as basicly the same, meditation as basicly a use of clearing ones head through concetration and prayer using a god figure. a religious person would say god is helping you clear your mind as you meditate, an atheist or some such would say praying to god is just a tool to help you clear your own mind.




VanityFix -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/14/2009 4:45:12 AM)

im all for worshiping the Flying Spaghetti Monster
http://www.venganza.org/





DomKen -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/14/2009 8:01:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VanityFix

im all for worshiping the Flying Spaghetti Monster
http://www.venganza.org/



Ar matey. Talk like a pirate when you say such things.




Esinn -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/14/2009 8:55:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanityFix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

Much study has been done on meditation.  Prayer is just a delusional form, in most cases, of meditation which suggests special power for you to communicate with the thing you call god(no one elses) using some form of telepathy which has never been identified you(the process by which it works).

I am down for some some awe in nature. Some respect for nature.  I see value in meditation.



i see prayer and meditation as basicly the same, meditation as basicly a use of clearing ones head through concetration and prayer using a god figure. a religious person would say god is helping you clear your mind as you meditate, an atheist or some such would say praying to god is just a tool to help you clear your own mind.



You can pee standing up for all I care.  No wait I would rather you did not..

I already explained the difference between prayer (as seen by most theistic) religions.

I have stated as well I see no issue with meditation.




Esinn -> RE: That multifaith God - Why should we worship him? (8/14/2009 8:57:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanityFix

im all for worshiping the Flying Spaghetti Monster
http://www.venganza.org/




Show me on the doll where his noodley appendages touched you.




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