Simple question from a simple man (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 4:38:10 PM)

I was talking with my neighbor today, and he told me that business (he is a handy man, remodeling, construction, small engine repair, welding, etc.) has been so bad that he is behind on his house payment. He is the kind of guy that is up before or at dawn, works hard, and supports a family of three kids and a wife. He said the mortgage company will not work anything out with him, and everyone he has called says there is not much that can be done. He didn't get an ARM, or buy more house than he can afford. He is willing to do just about any kind of work, and does. This includes cutting grass or repairing a mini loader. Whatever is needed to survive.

We were talking about various things, health care, economy, foreign policy, and he turned to me and said "At this point I cannot care about any of those things, If I could ask the President for one solution it would be how do I keep my house for my family?"

Things like this tend to put things in perspective for me. Yeah all these ideas that are coming down from our politicians are great, but when an average joe cannot keep his house, has problems putting food on the table, or clothes on his kids, all those great ideas amount to nothing.

So to all of those that have all the solutions, that talk about all the great change, about how important so many things are, how does this simple man keep his house?



DomKen -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 4:45:42 PM)

2 possibilities.

First the economy could improve enough that people stop putting off the sort of work he does

-or-

his mortgage holder could, or could be forced to, renegotiate his loan.

the first seems unlikely in the next couple of months and one of the truly outrageous mistakes of the Obama administration was in not forcing all mortgage holders to creat a renegotiation plan or not get bailout funds.

I was talking to the guy who does that sort of thing for me and he was talking about having applied for a home equity loan simply to make payments on his mortgage.



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 4:55:05 PM)

Orion I think you have hit the nail on the head in the biggest way, that is what it SHOULD be about, not simply undermining the state but begging them to change the things that matter, get the unemployed into work, support the people without money or opportunities to make the most of themselves. Give people the chance to actually wake up in the morning without having to think about how hard life is every single day.

Government is meant to represent the people who live in the country, though everyone seems so bogged down with insulting them, throwing mud rather than actually letting them represent us, help us in the way they should and that to me is heart breaking.

We are not all born into money, and even those with good jobs at the moment risk loosing them. When the economy is good people seem to forget this, the rich are happy as they are as are those with job security forget that for some, what you described never goes away.



Louve00 -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 5:42:13 PM)

Give your neighbor this link

https://www.naca.com/refinance/refinanceTenStep.jsp

Or if he would rather call, the national number is  1-888-302-6222 and from there he can find his local number.

They'll tell him ways he can save his home.  They also have a list of preditory lenders and will help him work around them, or tell him how to fight for his home, if a preditory lender is holding his mortgage. 

*editted to add*  Not that I am implying I know the answer to everything lol.  I've just had those problems myself, and knew someone that knew this link. 



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 6:18:36 PM)

The idea that Countrywide has for his renegotiating is to double his payments to get him caught up, and tack on a couple of grand in extra fees and interest. He tried to refinance but no one will touch him while he is behind in his current mortgage. He said he does not have the best credit, mainly slow pay on a couple of things in the last year.

Thanks Louve, I will pass it on to him. I will likely do some of the internet search for him, as he is one of the most neighborly guys you could meet.

It seems that along with other things, somewhere in the Stimulus package could have been some money for government loans to assist in people keeping their homes. I do not mean those that should never have gotten one to begin with, but those that have a reasonable mortgage, with reasonable interest. The guy said he has never taken charity in his life, but he may go to his church for a loan if he absolutely has to.

I would like to think I am a pretty intelligent guy, but I cannot see any good answers to any of this without getting the politicians out of the way, and force new public servants in. It was Countrywide that was just discovered to have given some very special loans to several politicians, and then someone like my neighbor gets screwed like this. The kind of anger this creates, is definately not the kind of anger polticians want to see seeth and grow.



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 6:31:55 PM)

When you look at how much money was paid in the bank bail outs in relation to how many people have had their homes repossessed (in the UK this is) not even to mention the figure on bonuses it cant help but give you shudders, in a bad way.

I completely agree, I mean all areas have different political systems but none seem to work yet



stella41b -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 6:37:01 PM)

The neighbour was spot on. Poverty, and how to eliminate it to me is the number one issue on this planet.

Poverty is still just as much an issue now as it was in the times of Dickens.

And while for many years we have been in a position to eliminate poverty for good, not one political system or ideology has ever come close to achieving this objective.



Louve00 -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 6:39:35 PM)

I wish my mortgage was with countrywide! lol.  Unfortunately, mine is held by a preditor (Nation star).  Countrywide teamed up with one of those banks that got one of those huge bailouts.  I would venture to say NACA could help your neighbor.  If you're going to be investigating for him, you may want to check out this link, too.  Just some FYI.

http://www.treas.gov/initiatives/eesa/homeowner-affordability-plan/ExecutiveSummary.pdf



Vendaval -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 10:02:37 PM)

Orion,

Please let us know how his situation is resolved, I wish him all the best.

Vendaval



Brain -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 10:37:45 PM)

In Canada people that do this kind of work are extremely busy because in the Canadian stimulus package if you spend money fixing up your residence they allow you to deduct it from your income taxes. So many people took advantage of this to do renovations on their homes and it stimulated the economy as you can see from the articles below. You may want to inform your elected representative.

I don’t really have any easy answer for this problem. In the long term I would advise him to get a job in the government because they need people with all sorts of skills in the government just as they do in the private sector and I think the government pays its employees better and treats employees better as well.

Maybe he can get a job in a nursing home as a personal support worker or cleaner. Usually they hire people to assist in taking care of the elderly, assist nurses, and they need people to tidy up and dust and clean the floors as well. The population is aging so it may be a good long-term move career wise.


Housing, manufacturing data point to end of Canadian recession ...
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gLomNonodBnIdGTsIK4efW-IHMkA

Housing, manufacturing data point to end of Canadian recession: economists The Canadian Press - ‎7 hours ago‎

TORONTO - An astounding rebound in the resale housing market and good news out of the manufacturing sector combined Friday to give yet another indication that Canada is slowly but surely digging itself out of recession.

Canada home resales set July record, up 6th month Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/economicNews/idUSN1431340220090814

Existing home sales set July record Toronto Star
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/681312




DarkSteven -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 10:43:14 PM)

Yoo hoo, mortgage company?  This is Uncle Sam.  Remember that megaloan you took out from us?  We've decided it's immediately due and payable.

Yeah, that wasn't in the original terms and conditions.  Kinda like the way you change credit card loan terms unilaterally when you feel like it.  Kinda ironic, isn't it?

Well, gee, I guess you'd better come up with some money soon.  How about you make loans again?  You know, the kind that get paid back because you looked into the borrower.  Not like the liar loans that you've been profiting from for years.

Yeah, I realize that giving out huge bonuses is more fun than checking creditworthiness.  But it really IS what you should be doing, after all.

Thanks for understanding.  And I really want to work with you.  That'd be so much more pleasant than sending over a couple of Congressmen to kneecap ya.



TheHeretic -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 11:12:40 PM)

It's probably not Countrywide.  They went belly-up, IIRC, and are now controlled by B of A (Bunch of Assholes). 

Depending on where you are, he might be able to drag the process of foreclosure out as long as possible and hope something comes through.  I don't think there is a good answer for him.  It sucks.



Vendaval -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 11:23:44 PM)

I second Heretic's statement about B of A being a nasty company.



Ialdabaoth -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/14/2009 11:31:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
So to all of those that have all the solutions, that talk about all the great change, about how important so many things are, how does this simple man keep his house?


He doesn't. Free market at work, bitches!



UncleNasty -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/15/2009 9:51:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I wish my mortgage was with countrywide! lol.  Unfortunately, mine is held by a preditor (Nation star).  Countrywide teamed up with one of those banks that got one of those huge bailouts.  I would venture to say NACA could help your neighbor.  If you're going to be investigating for him, you may want to check out this link, too.  Just some FYI.

http://www.treas.gov/initiatives/eesa/homeowner-affordability-plan/ExecutiveSummary.pdf


Countrywide is among the worst offenders. Angello Mozillo has been brought up on various fraud charges.

Countrywide was also caught fabricating evidence in a BK case a few years ago.

To think that any of these bigger players is different or better than any of the others is a mistake.

Uncle Nasty



UncleNasty -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/15/2009 10:01:54 AM)

Here is a list of recent articles that relate to mortgage services and loan modifications.

http://mandelman.ml-implode.com/2009/08/suits-filed-against-sleazy-servicers-treasury-knew/

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090805/ap_on_bi_ge/us_mortgage_middlemen

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/08/04/business/AP-US-Mortgage-Help.html

http://www.consumerwarningnetwork.com/2009/08/04/why-wont-lenders-renegotiate-delinquent-home-loans/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/business/30services.html

http://livinglies.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/loan-modification-scamming-from-the-top-down/

The last link is mortgage foreclosure defense oriented site. Among the better and more useful ones I've seen in the past couple of years. Anyone truly interested in this issue would do well to spend some time there. Garfield is doing a lot of very relevant "outside the box" thinking.

Uncle Nasty



Louve00 -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/15/2009 1:05:30 PM)

Thanks for the links.  I haven't checked them all out yet.  It is useful information to me, if nothing else, to be able to pass on to someone else.  Countrywide "used to be" a good mortgage company.  They financed our home 15 years ago and we never had any problems with them.  We refinanced in 2005.  The worst mistake we ever made, but my husband got sick and insurance wasn't covering alot of things.  Luckily, as of this day anyway, our loan is above water, but they were willing to give us an ungodly amt...almost begging us to take an amt that would have put us well under water, today.  We were tempted, but fortunately, not that greedy.  However, we refinanced with an ARM.  THAT was our biggest mistake, really.  I can afford the loan, but the interest is killing me.  We refinanced with Fremont (who supposedly has gone out of business), and the loan was picked up by Nation Star.  It's a mess...and a headache.  I've owned this house for 15 years though and I'm not gonna give it up without one helluva good fight lol.  And I'm learning alot in the process, too.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/15/2009 2:54:57 PM)

There is no such thing as "Free Market", as that would imply that only the market influences itself, which it does not. If the huge amounts of money were spent in different ways, I am sure there would have been enough to address this issue. While I am a small "L" Libertarian, I still believe in some regulation. My problem is that it becomes a choice of two extremes, rather than a moderate compromise, on how to address these issues.

On to some of the particulars: I helped him dig through things and his loan is actually not with Countrywide, and has not been for several months. It appears to be handled by a company called Litton Loan Services, and they manage things for third party mortgage holders. Many of the sites I checked (thanks again Louve) require some precise information, so I am assisting him in drafting a letter requesting the information on the mortgage holder.

It appears as if he is behind by four payments, with a total of five payments being due. I recommended, and he agreed, that he is going to contact his church and a couple of others and offer to do work at a reduced amount. Any work is better than no work.

I am also writing a letter to the county commissioners and recommend a program to assist the elderly with fixing up their properties, using some of these people that are out of work. I was looking through some of the neighborhoods around here and they need all kinds of assistance from yard maintenance, to minor repairs on the home. Heck a small temporary 1% increase in sales tax could even create a fund to operate this out of. Yeah it is a redistribution of wealth, but if properties stay nice looking then everyone benefits from property values staying up, to the area being more attractive for home buyers.

Thanks for all the ideas folks.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
So to all of those that have all the solutions, that talk about all the great change, about how important so many things are, how does this simple man keep his house?


He doesn't. Free market at work, bitches!



ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/15/2009 3:39:22 PM)

Orion:
Your neighbor is fortunate to have someone (you) helping him.

We went through a similar mess over the last 2 years, after I lost a very good job. In '07 I was making $80 with full health insurance. This year I'll be lucky to make just over 1/2 of that. We've done without any form of health insurance for about 18 months. We were within 3 days of Wells Fargo selling our house in June when we were able to settle on new terms with them. Wells was the 2nd-largest recipient of tax-payer money at something like $25billion. You'd think with that sort of cash on-hand they could have worked a little faster.

One of the problems with the whole mortgage industry is that even when you foresee a problem, the lenders won't talk to you until you are behind in your payments. At that point they start piling-on with the fees and penalties. They do it simply because they can and there is no legislation forcing them to work with you before things become critical.

One part of our solution was a gift of $1,000 from a fund that the Mrs' church establised for just this type of issue: helping people to keep their home. Generally speaking I tend to burst into flames within 10' of a church. But in this case it saved the house.

What's allowing us to stay put is that I finally got a pernanent, full-time job in my field (professional computer geek). We've struggled to keep up with the mortgage, car payments and utilities but all the un-secured debt (ie credit cards) fell by the wayside. We've been talking bankruptcy for months but really didn't want to go there. We finally gave in.

The final straw was that yesterday Citibank froze our checking account as part of their judgement for the Mrs' cc acct with them. So we spent 4 hrs with a bankruptcy firm this morning and the case will be filed on Tuesday. Sadly, that may be the ultimate way out for your neighbor.

A lot of people have complained about the "stimulous package" and how it doesn't seem to be doing anything. One thing I've noticed is that literally every road I use to get to work is being resurfaced or worked-on in some form. Those projects may have already been planned, but at least they are moving forward.

Other than discussing bankruptcy, I have two other suggestions for your neighbor: contact your members of Congress. Write to your rep and senator and explain the situation and ask him or her to have his office contact the lender. Sometimes that's just the nudge that is needed. My other thought is to seek advice and assistance from Terry Savage. She is so on-top of the mortgage-industry and so well-respected that she can actually help people get movement out of their lenders.

Note to Ialdabaoth: I truly hope you never, ever suffer any adversity in your life only to have someone throw it back in your face.

~Dave



Rule -> RE: Simple question from a simple man (8/15/2009 4:11:13 PM)

Rent out a room.



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