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Define satan? - 8/14/2009 11:49:00 PM   
knees2you


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Status: offline 		Just curious here?
 
We have been trying to define God, and we if are going to define Him, then we should define satan also.
 
If we have Good, then we know we have evil.
We know according to Gods laws that satan is here also.
 
Do we just believe that evil is because someone just feels that way?
Their mind is not right?
 
What makes evil tick??
 
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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 12:00:34 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 12:06:20 AM   
rightwinghippie


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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 12:10:01 AM   
Vendaval


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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 12:20:59 AM   
rightwinghippie


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Status: offline 		Interesting question Knees2you. I think any form of a divine creature would be at best just a way to describe something beyond our limited scale of perception. We see ourselves in such forces, It's just the way our brain works. Evil isn't a guy with horns or God a dude with a white beard. Though the symbolic imagery might be in those forms or names.

Also what is Good or Evil. Is it Good or Evil when a Wolf tears a Moose mom to death and eats her in front of its baby? The bible story of the gaining knowledge of Good and Evil has allways been a very interesting concept to me. Obviously there wasn't a specific fruit. But there was a time where Humans were animals, and then they began to think. And decided some actions (that animals do with no qualms whatsoever) were wrong.

My stab at the Op would be that within the All the is a Force of Order and a Force of Chaos, and the chaos would be what "Satan" represents.

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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 12:34:36 AM   
SweetPoosy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

How many Sarah Palin threads do we really need at one time, anyway?
   I knew there was a reason I like you Panda!




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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 3:17:33 AM   
BitaTruble


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I think satan is a concept used as a threat and threats are basically bullshit wrapped up in pretty paper. It's the idea of fear being a motivator to do the right thing when doing the right thing is motivation enough.

So, my definition: satan = bullshit.



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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 3:49:48 AM   
FullCircle


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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:00:50 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		I always wondered about santa being an anagram of satan, lets face it both are supposed to wear red.

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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:03:35 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

Just curious here?

We have been trying to define God, and we if are going to define Him, then we should define satan also.

If we have Good, then we know we have evil.
We know according to Gods laws that satan is here also.



Seems to me you are viewing Satan as imperative when many faiths do not have the 'evil' counter part, to give evil name is to give it power, or that maybe 'god' isn't not actually perfect and things are a balance between good and evil anyways.

in the Christian faith I have seen people say that Satan himself is actually not evil. It is simply a contrast and you 'need' both.

Oh and interesting to bring up 'satanism' which actually is not an inherently 'evil' faith


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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:04:58 AM   
TurboJugend


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

`fr`

I think satan is a concept used as a threat and threats are basically bullshit wrapped up in pretty paper. It's the idea of fear being a motivator to do the right thing when doing the right thing is motivation enough.

So, my definition: satan = bullshit.




although fear as motivator seems to be used often in the world..and seems to do it job.
to those suppressed people "satan" propably seems far away from being bullshit



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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:05:07 AM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
I always wondered about santa being an anagram of satan, lets face it both are supposed to wear red.



Yes and one also can't ignore the fact he can stomach mince pies.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 8/15/2009 4:06:18 AM >

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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:13:23 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Status: offline 		See, this is the problem, for me, when one starts shaping forces that are supposed to be 'absolute good'. It is the same concept that fuels superhero comics (which, btw, I love) in the sense that when you have a force of absolute good, it -has- to have a balancing aspect -- absolute evil. The thing is, most of existence is not wrapped up in absolutes. Just about everything is balanced between its extremes, and it functions out of that balance.

One thing that I struggle with concerning the whole concept of good vs. evil, especially as a writer, is that the absolutes often become caricatures -- we can't relate to them because we are often forced to see our own mottled image as somehow less than OK. The whole idea, though, of forcefully evicting all of our shadows and darkness so that we can become perfectly good beings is, frankly, not only unfeasible but -unhealthy-.

That being said:
quote:

My stab at the Op would be that within the All the is a Force of Order and a Force of Chaos, and the chaos would be what "Satan" represents.


... see... I knew I was The Devil!

Dame Calla





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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:18:42 AM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally
Seems to me you are viewing Satan as imperative when many faiths do not have the 'evil' counter part, to give evil name is to give it power, or that maybe 'god' isn't not actually perfect and things are a balance between good and evil anyways.


Interesting that many faiths need some way to deal with the bad things that happen in life. i.e. if you are Hindu the bad things that happen are obstacles put in your way to challenge you. If you are Christian there is this inherent temptation to do evil which must be overcome in some kind of personal struggle.

Similarly if you are ancient Greek you have the idea of Pandora's box a gift given by a god, the evil came from the curiosity to open the box but nobody thinks to ask why god would put such evil in a box to begin with and let the possibility that it could be opened? The Hindu obstacles idea falls short when some challenges become too hard to overcome or when people witness the sheer injustice of everyone being challenged to different extents.

If I were to believe in a benevolent god I'd assume that it had no control over such things and may not even have the ability to see such suffering or even realise what the concept of suffering is. When was the last time a god was made to suffer? So what kind of empathy would a god have with human suffering or that of any other animal?

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 8/15/2009 4:23:26 AM >

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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:21:36 AM   
TurboJugend


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quote:

Seems to me you are viewing Satan as imperative when many faiths do not have the 'evil' counter part


I think most "popular"religions have the evil counter part. Not as big as Satan...but smaller roles....
And it logic..how do you show "good" when you don't tell what is "bad"
besides that..some religions have gods that are not so kind.
Also one can ask if our God is not also Satan.  

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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:25:15 AM   
brispslave


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Status: offline 		Well, since no one can tell me the difference between God and Santa, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Satan is the anti-Santa.

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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:28:56 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TurboJugend

quote:

Seems to me you are viewing Satan as imperative when many faiths do not have the 'evil' counter part


I think most "popular"religions have the evil counter part. Not as big as Satan...but smaller roles....
And it logic..how do you show "good" when you don't tell what is "bad"



Firstly depends what you consider a popular faith, and as I said, if 'god' is not seen as infallible then there is no need,


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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:42:21 AM   
TurboJugend


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally



Firstly depends what you consider a popular faith


hinduism
buddhisme
paganism ( wicca..some)
christianity
islam
judaism

quote:

I said, if 'god' is not seen as infallible then there is no need

for the religion perhaps not...for the church ofcourse..to look special..there might be still need for a "worser" beeing

< Message edited by TurboJugend -- 8/15/2009 4:52:37 AM >

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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 4:54:02 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie
Evil isn't a guy with horns or God a dude with a white beard. Though the symbolic imagery might be in those forms or names.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie
Also what is Good or Evil. Is it Good or Evil when a Wolf tears a Moose mom to death and eats her in front of its baby?

Predators typically take down the young and the sick or weak. That is good, if performed quickly and without unnecessary cruelty. It is wrong when they take down the healthy, unless necessity warrants that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie
My stab at the Op would be that within the All the is a Force of Order and a Force of Chaos, and the chaos would be what "Satan" represents.

Murphy's Law in action.

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RE: Define satan? - 8/15/2009 5:01:24 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

I think most "popular"religions have the evil counter part.

quote:

paganism ( wicca..some)


See, now, this is a path I am -intimately- familiar with, and I'm sorry Turbo, but there is NO "evil counterpart" in Wiccan religion -- in fact, the concept of divinity in Wicca is very fluid, and many Wiccans draw from more than one pantheon to populate their personal conception of divinity, but one thing they -are- pretty clear on is that balance, both within the divine nature and outside of it, rather than divisive polarity, is the defining characteristic of the divine nature. The thing is, the divine beings from the pantheons discussed are not 'perfect good vs. perfect evil' kind of divinities... like humanity, they have both their constructive and destructive aspects.

There is no 'devil' in the Wiccan framework, and that is why, when you hear people talking about Wicca being "devil worship" or calling Wiccan's "satan worshippers", that simply isn't feasible, as the Wicca leave the dichotomy of the whole God/Satan thing to paths that enjoy that.

DC

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/15/2009 5:03:46 AM >

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