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RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 6:32:12 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

"Free" health care was a lure to becoming like mere stupid, lazy cattle.

"Come get the carrot boy, look at the carrot"

POW

Politicians using taxes to buy votes, promising "free" this and "free" that, would lead us down a very dark road. Sure, things are "free" there towards the bottom, but the problem is that there is a limit to the number of wealthy people who politicians can rob in order to hand you all your freebies.

But they've always got to promise more and more, in order to get elected over the other guy who is also promising "free" goodies.

And after the wealth is gone, stolen and handed out for "free"?

At that point people no longer know how to provide for themselves, and so they're worse off than before the smooth talking politician started giving them all the "free" shit (that was never his) to begin with.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 21

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 6:42:13 AM

Louve00

Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

Free health care? It wasn't going to be "free" health care. You'll have to get your carrots somewhere else. It was going to be affordable health care, without insurance companies deciding how to medically treat you. But, I know, I know. You probably think health care shouldn't be affordable. And that its unrealistic for a Dr to decide how to treat a patient, you'd sooner twist it to the gov't doing what insurance companies do now. When it happens to you, thank the repubs for convincing you to be such a loyal advocate of theirs.

< Message edited by Louve00 -- 8/17/2009 6:45:28 AM >

_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 22

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 7:24:27 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

It's common knowledge by now that "the public option" which was just dropped was a fundamental part of a 10 - 20 year plan to eliminate private insurance in favor of nationalized health care, which the newspeak term for nationalized health care is "the single payer option".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndStT6c93rc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

If the goal isn't "free" health care, then what's the problem, anyway. Health care csts can be reduced through other means than "the public option". One thing that was being discussed was forcing everyone to buy insurance...

Ultimately for me this is all about government control, and I'm glad this was defeated because it was clearly a means for government to assume far more control of citizen's lives.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Louve00)

Post #: 23

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 7:44:47 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

thank the repubs for convincing you to be such a loyal advocate of theirs.

Advocacy doesn't change any of the facts. The Democrats have the plurality, and can't even be slowed down from passing any Bill their agenda desires. They've got a person waiting in the office with a pen ready to sign it. They have a well financed paid by public employee union dues, coalition of bureaucrats. Yet - they blinked.

Less than 8 months have passed since they've taken power and the coalition is crumbling. The anti-war people are pissed. The unemployed are pissed. The grass root bureaucrats are pissed. People are still getting evicted from their foreclosed houses.

Personally, I'm grateful that the Democrats have shown how fundamentally lacking in integrity they are by abandoning this Bill as soon as it became apparent it would cost them PAC money and reelection. Cockroaches scurrying from the light being turned on them. Now they are stumbling over themselves saying they were never for passage in the first place. Some are such cowards they've canceled the regularly scheduled 'town hall' meetings; such conviction!

There is no spin possible; there is a Democratic Congress, a Democratic President. This Bill dies, and the insurance companies win, as a result of the cowardliness of one party - Democrats. Seeing them being defended on these boards is amusing as hell! Supporting government bailouts of the finance/banking industry, surrendering to the insurance company PAC, maintaining off shore jails, escalating foreign occupation and wars. ALL now okay - because of they see the Democratic party as their identity.

Exactly what is that identity? As someone pointed out, supporting the Party and the Administration's efforts - they are the NeoCons they used to despise.

Your party loyalty is the reason why it is "Politics as usual". When you are convinced the only solution is voting out any incumbent regardless of party, and continuing to do so until the message is heard, there may be an opportunity to change what is "usual".

But meanwhile, I sincerely hope that more aren't discouraged from rationalization. I miss the old NeoCon accusations that used to be offered here in lieu of any factual reply. However, these posts are funny and entertaining as hell too! THANKS!

(in reply to Louve00)

Post #: 24

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 7:56:31 AM

Louve00

Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

You answer your own points. Dems can indeed say the hell with you all and just do what they want. That they're trying to do what the people say they want, just means they are trying to make this free choice. You didn't want it, the dem's (the president), is not going to force you. If you think they're backing down just to back down, I would think you are wrong. They are trying to revise it so all americans can be happy, now. Something tells me though, there will never be a 'happy'. That is, unless a republican president was sitting in office. You have to wait for 2012 for that though. It's gonna be a long, long term for our democratic president.

_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 25

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 8:09:24 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

are trying to revise it so all americans can be happy, now.

A point speaking directly to the lack of conviction, courage, and most of all, leadership. Honestly - Was this your expectation for this batch of bureaucrats? Is this the expected 'CHANGE!' in direction, or 'CHANGE!' in leadership?

Not referencing, that "all americans" happiness is an impossible goal. What a way to set up a very dramatic failure.

(in reply to Louve00)

Post #: 26

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 8:24:40 AM

Louve00

Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

I do have to agree with you. If it were me sitting in office, it would be happening. But am I disappointed he's not listening to everyone who's squawking? I am disappointed he is backing down from what he thinks Americans need, because I agree with it, and did read the bill, but not disappointed that he IS listening to the people of the country (the country he is president over, and the people he is serving). My reference to 'happy' was about healthcare (of course), but this revolt against everything Obama says is bringing to light a whole different kind of revelation that yes, in my opinion, will be keeping everyone UNhappy about ANYthing he does. I speak generally because it is a general observation.

< Message edited by Louve00 -- 8/17/2009 8:26:26 AM >

_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 27

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 8:38:32 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

hmmmm....post the same thing over and over....Well i s'pose that's ONE way to get your post count up quickly.

Yeah, I'm sure you've -never- made a posting error, Iron... this kind of backbiting and sniping is truly un-necessary, especially with all of the significant issues that are on the table.

DC

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***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 28

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 8:40:50 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

According to a new law proposal insurance companies can not refuse service for people with preexisting condition but they can set the price so high that people have only public option choice.

Actually, they can't. One of the provisions of the reform bill is to prevent overpricing and charging back to the patient in situations like this.

DC

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 29

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 8:49:38 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

He cross posts too. He posts the same cut-and-paste on multiple threads...

He's a cross-poster?

Whoa, that's way too kinky for this site.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 8/17/2009 8:50:13 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 30

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 9:04:27 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

It's common knowledge by now that "the public option" which was just dropped was a fundamental part of a 10 - 20 year plan to eliminate private insurance in favor of nationalized health care, which the newspeak term for nationalized health care is "the single payer option".

It seems we are all jumping to a lot of conclusions based on what the media is speculating.

There is no official word that the public option has been dropped.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 31

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 9:17:59 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

It's common knowledge by now that "the public option" which was just dropped was a fundamental part of a 10 - 20 year plan to eliminate private insurance in favor of nationalized health care, which the newspeak term for nationalized health care is "the single payer option".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndStT6c93rc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

If the goal isn't "free" health care, then what's the problem, anyway. Health care csts can be reduced through other means than "the public option". One thing that was being discussed was forcing everyone to buy insurance...

Ultimately for me this is all about government control, and I'm glad this was defeated because it was clearly a means for government to assume far more control of citizen's lives.

You know Sanity, it's really funny that you just chastised someone else for posting multiple links and posting them on
different threads since I've noticed you do that often as well.

This is at least the the third time you've posted your second link.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 32

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 9:33:46 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Health care csts can be reduced through other means than "the public option". One thing that was being discussed was forcing everyone to buy insurance...

Yeah, something that was touted as a grand unified theory of no-fault insurance.

Having a captive audience, they can fuck you till the cows come home, and as in automobile insurance, will.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 33

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 11:10:54 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

I appreciate your concern, rml, but here - let me help illustrate the differences for you.

Brian posts and crossposts entire articles whereas I may post a link or two if making a claim that some (such as yourself) may demand verification of, and as an added bonus I generally I add my own hand typed text.

Generally, when posting actual news I may post excerpts of the fresh news article, but otherwise I only provide the news links just to cut down on the general snarkiness that people may try to throw out asking for them as a distraction whenever they feel that they may be sucking hind teat in a given debate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
You know Sanity, it's really funny that you just chastised someone else for posting multiple links and posting them on
different threads since I've noticed you do that often as well.

This is at least the the third time you've posted your second link.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 34

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 11:17:14 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

I agree with you Ron, forcing people to buy insurance is a bad idea for a number of reasons, the number one reason for me is simply that I am vehemently against further unnecessary government control such as that. And you're dead on right about the captive audience part too, which is why I'm against socialized health care generally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Health care csts can be reduced through other means than "the public option". One thing that was being discussed was forcing everyone to buy insurance...

Yeah, something that was touted as a grand unified theory of no-fault insurance.

Having a captive audience, they can fuck you till the cows come home, and as in automobile insurance, will.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 35

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 11:22:07 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Well; different forms of captivity, Sanity. One is a zoo, the other a very small cage.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 36

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 11:22:09 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

First cross-posting and now sucking hind teat.

I think you are deliberately trying to pervert the wholesomeness of this site.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 37

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 11:26:53 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Yeah, I know, I'm b-a-a-a-a-d.

I really love it though, and I'll never change.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

First cross-posting and now sucking hind teat.

I think you are deliberately trying to pervert the wholesomeness of this site.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 38

RE: Politics as usual - 8/17/2009 2:32:31 PM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

hmmmm....post the same thing over and over....Well i s'pose that's ONE way to get your post count up quickly.

Yeah, I'm sure you've -never- made a posting error, Iron... this kind of backbiting and sniping is truly un-necessary, especially with all of the significant issues that are on the table.

DC

We have backbiting, sniping, and then we have jokes. After nearly 5,000 posts with about 3,000 being jokes....guess which of these that part of my post was meant to be.

The problem with typed messages and communication is that they often translate incorrectly. But it's understandable. Tensions seem to be on the rise.

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 39

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