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Obama aide says president still favors public health plan - 8/18/2009 1:56:24 AM   
Brain


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Status: offline 		Obama aide says president still favors public health plan

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The White House sought to reassure jittery supporters Monday that President Obama is not abandoning the fight for a public health insurance option.

"The president has always said that what is essential is that health insurance reform must lower costs, ensure that there are affordable options for all Americans, and it must increase choice and competition in the health insurance market," White House aide Linda Douglass said in a written statement.

"He believes the public option is the best way to achieve those goals."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/health.care/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

I am a fiscal conservative and I want the deficit under control.

I am not interested in health insurance companies corporate profit problems. And as if they have any problems making profits. The ridiculous record profits they have been making lately!

I want single-payer and that’s it! Anybody in the Senate, especially a Democrat, who doesn’t support the single-payer option needs to be replaced in the next election period………………………
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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 6:42:50 AM   
olena


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Status: offline 		The politicians know this subject is one that can lose a re-election so they are going to be faithful to public clamor and not doing what is best or their party’s desire as they normally tend to do. Just watched a town hall meeting on CSPAN last night that was a Democrat one and the person speaking talked about the need for the Democrat base to be energized to match the Republican base which already is.

It is a shame that fire always has to be met with fire in order to combat mistruths no matter what side starts it.

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 7:25:06 AM   
Sanity


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Of course he does, has anyone said any different? All the buzz is about the fact that he's finally realized that it's extremely unpopular,  and so he's trying to pretend that its not all that important to him.

Here's a related story that spells it all out very nicely:

quote:

FACT CHECK: White House ignores health concession

FACT CHECK: White House health care rhetoric ignores concession on government-run plan

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Barack Obama has indicated a willingness to drop a government-run health care plan from any overhaul. The White House says that's not a shift. Actually, it is.

Fierce proponents of a government-run health plan for months, Obama and senior administration officials, bowing to pressure from Republicans and skeptical voters, suggested that such a public option is not do-or-die.

"All I'm saying is, though, that the public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform," the president told a town hall-style audience in Colorado, on Saturday. "This is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it."CLAIM: "I challenge you guys all to go back and see what we've said about this over the course of many, many, many, many months, and you'll find a boring consistency to our rhetoric," White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters.

THE FACTS: During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama said a new public plan should offer comprehensive insurance similar to that available to federal employees.

In the first half of the year, Obama said repeatedly in speeches, weekly radio and Internet addresses and town halls that he wants a health care overhaul that has a taxpayer-funded public health insurance option. He has said the plan would compete with private insurance to keep costs down.

"That's why any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans -- including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest -- and choose what's best for your family," he said on July 18.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/FACT-CHECK-White-House-apf-2287534149.html?x=0&.v=1


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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 7:32:42 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Of course he does, has anyone said any different? All the buzz is about the fact that he's finally realized that it's extremely unpopular,

Not true but of course you know that.

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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 7:43:34 AM   
Sanity


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He dropped it like it's boiling hot lava because its so popular?

Is that what you think? 



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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 7:49:39 AM   
olena


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Status: offline 		Research is showing that a majority over 50 do not want a public option and a majority under 50 do. If you look at who is showing up at all these town hall meetings tend to back that up as the anti people tend to be older and the pro people tend to be younger.

This was of course was basically the same breakdown on who voted for who in the election and is why anyone thinking there has or will be a dramatic shift back to the Republicans are quite mistaken as the party has become the party of the old more then anything.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 7:52:19 AM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		Kind of odd when you consider older people depend on healthcare services more or is it just the fact they foresee a shorter future for themselves and therefore don't have such uncertainty in their lives?

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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 8:00:51 AM   
olena


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Status: offline 		They already have their government run insurance plan called Medicare and do not want any problems with it caused by the government adding another plan. That is what often is the motivation for the many that speak out against healthcare reform, “I made it to Medicare, tough luck on all the rest of you.”


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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 8:44:01 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: olena

They already have their government run insurance plan called Medicare and do not want any problems with it caused by the government adding another plan. That is what often is the motivation for the many that speak out against healthcare reform, “I made it to Medicare, tough luck on all the rest of you.”




Actually, this debate and the one on minimum wage have finally awakened me to the realization that, in America, this philosophy isn't just confined to the Medicaid crowd. I've heard enough people -here- essentially say  "I work hard and I've got -mine-, why would I -ever- want to do anything to help out anyone ELSE?" that I really believe that selfishness, greed, and "I've got mine, so screw you all." is endemic in our culture.

DC

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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 8:48:51 AM   
Sanity


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I noticed that same thing, most of the dissent we were seeing at the town hall meetings was mostly from older folks who knew that Medicare cuts were a big part of the plan Obama had to pay for Obamacare. That's why I had to laugh when the left wing media types like CNN and MSNBC fell in line with the Democrat party line and tried to paint them all up as "astroturfers" and Nazi mobs.


quote:

ORIGINAL: olena

Research is showing that a majority over 50 do not want a public option and a majority under 50 do. If you look at who is showing up at all these town hall meetings tend to back that up as the anti people tend to be older and the pro people tend to be younger.

This was of course was basically the same breakdown on who voted for who in the election and is why anyone thinking there has or will be a dramatic shift back to the Republicans are quite mistaken as the party has become the party of the old more then anything.



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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 8:51:04 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I've heard enough people -here- essentially say  "I work hard and I've got -mine-, why would I -ever- want to do anything to help out anyone ELSE?" that I really believe that selfishness, greed, and "I've got mine, so screw you all." is endemic in our culture.



....i sort of disagree. The US has a subtly different problem in my view. A lack of an idea that is an analog to society. Pretty much every other country in the world has a set of unifying characteristics which define them. Individuals may deviate from the cultural norm, but when the chips fall everyone has a sense of national identity to fall back on. All of which makes it a no-brainer that those cultures can quite happily see themselves as capitalistic and still run universal health care.
The problem with the US is that there's no central set of cultural values...rather a series of such sets. Thus it has problems acting for the collective good because, in a very real sense, there's no actual collective.

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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 10:13:32 AM   
olena


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: olena

They already have their government run insurance plan called Medicare and do not want any problems with it caused by the government adding another plan. That is what often is the motivation for the many that speak out against healthcare reform, “I made it to Medicare, tough luck on all the rest of you.”




Actually, this debate and the one on minimum wage have finally awakened me to the realization that, in America, this philosophy isn't just confined to the Medicaid crowd. I've heard enough people -here- essentially say  "I work hard and I've got -mine-, why would I -ever- want to do anything to help out anyone ELSE?" that I really believe that selfishness, greed, and "I've got mine, so screw you all." is endemic in our culture.

DC


This country is way better then most because it truly has many freedoms then others and especially the democratic process. Most of us are not likely the trend of one far side to power then the other but at least there is a swing.

People are selfish and that is just a fact of life. Selfishness may come out of us in different ways but we are still motivated in life for our best interests. Even people fortunate enough to have the time and resources to give back in life are doing it because they feel the need to do it or feel good about doing it.

I do not know about other countries, but it would be interesting, but I believe the biggest problem with America is the ever increasing isolation of people. It is allowing an indulgence of talking to, reading about and hearing things from similar people sharing similar opinions that are more and more removed from understanding the human experience is vast and different for many.

I have always seen this when I help out a t a food kitchen when many safe behind their plush homes rip on the people getting fed there to just “get a job lazy bums”. If they were to actual help out they would see most have no ability to hold down any job let alone one that can provide for what a human needs. I have started to see this type of blind opinions more and more in life. I think healthcare reform has been an eye popping example of this as people seem to be split in the one who are fortunate enough not to be screwed over medically or economically and the ones who have been.


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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 11:44:18 AM   
awmslave


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Status: offline 		Reforming health care was an interesting and very useful debate in the US. Too bad nothing practical came out of it. Health care reform is dead. I hope somebody will use the data to do some research how real power is divided in US between the corporations, the Congress and the White house.

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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 12:18:06 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Pretty much every other country in the world has a set of unifying characteristics which define them. Individuals may deviate from the cultural norm, but when the chips fall everyone has a sense of national identity to fall back on.


Excellent points to ponder Philo! Hope you don't mind if I amplify them a bit.

A key difference that I observe when traveling abroad, speaking only of Europe, is that in Europe there is also a sense of resignation. Not meant to represent either 'bad' or 'good'. However when talking to their locals about their 25% VAT, or about the 71% tax on alcohol, or about the impossibility of getting into college if you don't pass the State exam, or any of the unique parts of life there differentiating them from the USA; they didn't say those things were good or bad, they just were facts of life. They didn't distinguish any facet or consider how their lives would be different if some of the decisions in the hands of their government were given back to them. It permeates every aspect of life. Consider the expectation of privacy. It took a while for us to get comfortable with the prospect of 10 cameras on us at any given moment in London. Although there is a movement to implement similar tactics here in the US; the thought of a national photo ID card spurs street protests and debate. There is more to distinguish us from Europe than there are things in common.

In the US we are told from birth to "better" yourself, to not "resign" yourself to anything, to strive to change things and question. Polarize the debate by including whether bettering yourself should be based upon government entitlement or self initiative and you've got anything but resignation. As many people are thriving in the current conditions as are struggling; neither polarity is complacent or resigned. That's quite a different attitude than the reaction to my question in Stockholm about why it was impossible to buy a bottle of Vodka after a certain time of the day. They just shrugged their shoulders and related the fun times they had going to a different county to purchase their beverages as part of any major party planning.

The complications of the health care issue are mostly the result of those thriving not wanting to resign what they have over to the government. Unlike Europe, most in the US do not see government as a solution. The one common ground, rich or poor, is that we all seek ways to pay as little tax as possible. We want options, a LOT of them; to education, health-care, housing, employment. All of us seek the 'American Dream' represented to us from birth and refuse to resign ourselves, individually or collectively, as 'average'. Yet most of us are, even if not one of us would think to shrug our shoulders, smile, and move on, when it's correctly pointed out.

It is my opinion that the spirit of the individual is fundamental in the US and isn't subtle difference. It is a BIG difference. The 'common good' is definitely more pronounced and resigned to in Europe. In the US it's the last argument made my an individual. When it is made commonly the individual is part of the 'common' getting the 'good'. The posts and opinions shared on this issue seem to confirm exactly that.

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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 1:07:54 PM   
Brain


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Status: offline 		Compromise Co-Op Proposal Won't Lower Costs, Government Study Showed

The health care reform compromise that centrist Democrats and several Republicans have indicated they'd support has shown an inability to effectively lower premiums for consumers, a newly resurfaced government study shows. In recent days, a slew of lawmakers, notably Sens. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) and Richard Shelby (R-Ala.), have begun a renewed push to establish health care insurance cooperatives as an alternative to a publicly run insurance plan.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/17/compromise-co-op-proposal_n_261044.html

I don’t think Obama will support a co-op proposal if it doesn’t lower costs so back to single payer we will go.

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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 1:17:29 PM   
Brain


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Status: offline 		I think you sell health insurance.

Because if you were a true fiscal conservative you would want single payer to bring costs down and reduce the deficit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


He dropped it like it's boiling hot lava because its so popular?

Is that what you think? 




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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 1:22:39 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think you sell health insurance.

Because if you were a true fiscal conservative you would want single payer to bring costs down and reduce the deficit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


He dropped it like it's boiling hot lava because its so popular?

Is that what you think? 





AS A by the way, he did not drop it like hot lava, nor did he back away from single payer...or throw it under the bus, or any of the other characterizations that the low brows to the right use...

He pretty much said (because of the uproar) ok, fuck it, it doesn't have to be single payer, but it can't be no, i wont play because the democrats waltzed thru us and we fear our demise and are going pouting to our graves.........
its gotta be something, so whatever we can agree on.



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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 1:48:07 PM   
Brain


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Status: offline 		YouTube - Billionaires for Wealthcare

Healthcare for those who can't afford it is socialism according to Billionaires for wealthcare.
http://billionairesforwealthcare.com


Billionaires for Wealthcare

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHVwrCzRUX0

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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 1:54:32 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

it doesn't have to be single payer, but it can't be no, i wont play


Where is the Administration expecting to get the consensus?

One side: BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS
quote:

He emphasized to the skeptical crowds that he will work to reduce quickly-rising medical costs; that any bill must not add to the deficit; and that Blue Dogs like himself fought to delay consideration by the full House of Representatives to allow members to hear directly from constituents during the August recess.

When a questioner, Ray Evans, said he believed the President wants to do too much at once and asked whether Boyd would "be willing to scrap everything" and start over to do pursue reform more incrementally, the congressman responded: "I think that is an excellent idea … we may end up there."


The other side: LIBERAL REVOLT
quote:

“To take the public option off the table would be a grave error; passage in the House of Representatives depends upon inclusion of it,” wrote Reps. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.), Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.) and Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) in a letter to Sebelius Monday.

Along with their sharply worded letter, the three House members sent an attachment listing the “60 Members of Congress who are firm in their position that any legislation that moves forward through both chambers, and into a final proposal for the president's signature, MUST contain a public option.”

Even if top aides didn’t intend to do it, the White House got a glimpse of what may well happen — a Democratic civil war — if President Barack Obama does indeed give up on the public option.


As you say Ron, the rest are watching the "waltz".

You think "its gotta be something" has enough support and will get votes despite the probability of election fall out? You are counting on the integrity of politicians from either party? I commend your faith!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 8/18/2009 2:26:17 PM >

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RE: Obama aide says president still favors public healt... - 8/18/2009 2:02:02 PM   
Sanity


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Yeah, you've got conservatives all figured out. Helping socialists nationalize industry is what we're all about...

But we have a problem. How are we going to convince anyone that Obamacare, which the White House and the CBO have agreed will add between 1.5 and 2 trillion to the deficit ten years out, is actually going to reduce deficits.

Send more SEIU storm troopers to the town halls?

Have SEIU thugs help teachers unions teach math classes?

Oh wait, I know - just legalize drugs. That had ought to do it!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think you sell health insurance.

Because if you were a true fiscal conservative you would want single payer to bring costs down and reduce the deficit.


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