RE: Descent into hell

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Descent into hell > WHY?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: Descent into hell > WHY?

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/20/2009 4:48:54 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

Wow. I retract my earlier suggestion of spending unfocused, undirected time with your wife. The two of you have built up too much hostility for that. You need to just spend time with her first with a focused activity, no real unfocused talk time, first.

I once learned that there are four languages of love: spending time together, doing tasks for your loved one, buying gifts, and *ahem* the physical aspects. What is your style - what would your wife need to do to make you feel loved? You clearly do not spend time with her, and she's starved for it.

Surprise her. On your way home, go rent a video and buy a picnic-type lunch like fried chicken. Set up an impromptu picnic and watch the video with her.

One of my theories about women is that they handle routine less well than men, It means more to them when a man surprises them. Use that and try to do something unexpected maybe every other week Tickets to an escapist movie might be another idea.

After a few more surprises, she may be ready for you to rebuild the relationship.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to littlewonder)

Profile

Post #: 21

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/20/2009 5:40:58 AM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

~FR~

What a mess! I will retract any mention that this is at all a BDSM thing. This is a life thing. These women are controlling you. You are attempting to manipulate them. I am wondering why, after all that has transpired, you are still allowing your first wife to come around and make trouble or cause an issue to get worse. You were supposed to go your separate ways for a reason. As long as she has a fallback position with you, she's not going to be terribly bothered with moving on and having a life of her own. She is very, very comfortable. Your current wife is getting shafted at every turn. You've admitted your workaholism. On top of that she is sharing what little of your time there is with your ex wife. I can't imagine why she would be less than happy in the marriage. Oh and what's with them going to your mother? At what age are you an adult and put her out of your personal business? Such interference is inappropriate, in my opinion.

If you learned about co dependency in therapy, then you learned it takes two to tango (or more in your case). Cut off all the fringe benefits to the ex wife. Remind you mother at each infraction that her nose doesn't belong neck deep in your business as an adult. Focus on your current relationship and see to it that there are not such issues there too. Quit giving these women someone to be dependent on. I mean dependent in the dysfunctional way. You aren't doing any of them any favors and putting yourself through all kinds of misery for no reason. Nip it in the bud.

You are being used at every turn. Before you get your self righteousness up, it is your own fault. I agree with Des about that complete lack of boundaries. This is pretty ridiculous. Your mom places her own agenda upon your adult life. Your ex is using you for sex and money. Your current wife is using you for a comfy life. None of them appreciate what you give and none of the treat you with any respect. And once again, you have given the okay for them to do all this by your own behavior and the lack of negative consequences. Set some solid boundaries. Tell momma to butt out. Show your ex the door and make sure it doesn't hit her on the way out. Set limits in what you will do and how you will be treated within your marriage and make sure she knows that her behavior could have consequences like separation or divorce. Give her time to adjust to how you will handle things from now on, but check in with yourself and be honest about whether or not you are letting her off the hook and allowing yourself to be used again.

I wish you luck OP! It sounds like you have a long and hard journey ahead.

lovingpet

(in reply to DesFIP)

Profile

Post #: 22

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/20/2009 8:33:20 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

So from a woman's perspective, what am I as a male misunderstanding here?

They've built up a tolerance so it takes 'more' to get to the same places. That's normal. They started off as joggers and now they want to run marathons. Ignoring that reality isn't going to make it go away.

If 'you' don't want to run marathons, then reflect on the idea that you may have just grown apart and are no longer compatible. It happens.

You have to make a decision one way or the other. Either enter the race or watch them run passed you.

You said that them needing and demanding harder restraints etc., doesn't sit well with you. Why? Is it the demanding or the idea they want to up the ante in the pain department?

If it's the former, put your foot down and don't allow it. You're the director, right? The guide? The head honcho, big Kahuna? Well, be that then. Direct them.

If it's the latter try to set aside what vanilla society has taught you is wrong and if you enjoy it, then go ahead and embrace it. It certainly seems as if they will. You said it yourself - you're not taking advantage if they're willing. Are you willing?

Above all, as much as it hurts or as uncomfortable as it is .. move that 800 pound gorilla into the garage so you can talk to these ladies cuz that's where it starts.

As for mom.. don't talk, don't ask.. TELL her to butt out. End of, dude. End of.

Oh.. and quit making it all about work, work, work. All work and no play makes Jack a dull, dull boy. If you didn't work so much, you'd have more energy to satisfy two women. Somethings gotta give, you know?

There you go. A woman's perspective .. and you did ask.

Good luck.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to subdirector)

Profile

Post #: 23

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/20/2009 1:56:06 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Lovingpet, for him to now say to the present wife that either she does x, y and z or he'll divorce her is not the way to go. Yes he needs to toss mommy and the ex out and about ten years ago, but treating the present wife this way will make her leave.

Instead of him telling her what to do or else, he needs to change what he's doing. He's shown her for years, starting with the honeymoon that he devalues her, that she comes behind everyone else in his life. He needs to change that, date her, ask her to allow him to take just one responsibility off her. Have him come home to dinner every night on time, and tell her that since she cooked he will do the dishes. No demands, just a request to lessen her burden. And thank her for cooking!

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to lovingpet)

Profile

Post #: 24

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/20/2009 6:33:14 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Lovingpet, for him to now say to the present wife that either she does x, y and z or he'll divorce her is not the way to go. Yes he needs to toss mommy and the ex out and about ten years ago, but treating the present wife this way will make her leave.

Instead of him telling her what to do or else, he needs to change what he's doing. He's shown her for years, starting with the honeymoon that he devalues her, that she comes behind everyone else in his life. He needs to change that, date her, ask her to allow him to take just one responsibility off her. Have him come home to dinner every night on time, and tell her that since she cooked he will do the dishes. No demands, just a request to lessen her burden. And thank her for cooking!

First of all, I'm not sure her leaving is such a bad thing. They seem toxic together.

Definitely he needs to change what he's doing. If, however, it is D/s they are supposedly still pursuing, he needs to take harder line with her. She has been using and manipulating him. It needs to stop right away. I am not talking about idle threats. I think a simply state change of expectations coupled with a clear indication of how he plans to value her from here on is a winning combination. If I were in the situation where I had managed to find the ways to work my partner to my liking, I would want firm boundaries set up on me to stop that. It is an indication to me that he understands my needs. I don't want to be able to do it, but being human if I could I might (especially with the overall inattentiveness also going on). Putting it to an end and attaching steep consequences to attempting it any further is caring for me on a level that means a whole lot more than hearts and flowers. Some hearts and flowers are great too, but in the absence of that firm guidance that I both need and desire, it comes of as sniffling and begging.

He will already be putting on quite a demonstration of his love and devotion by getting these two other women out of their relationship. That is HUGE! Choosing to focus wholly on her and showing he plans to do whatever it takes to make that relationship with her a healthy one is so much more than all the romantic gestures in the world. These things will not result in her seeing the value he now has for her? Once he has her attention, now he can start slowly doing as you have said and take one thing at a time off her shoulders and back up the grand gestures with compliments and gratitude. He's dug himself a hole, no doubt. He has a lot of ground to reclaim.

First, though, he's got to get some healthy boundaries set up with all the women in his life. That means stating clearly, even to his wife, that he will not be used and pushed. He needs to place his wife in a position of honor among all the people and things in his life or accept that things are not going to work and let go. If he's going to stick it out, he's going to have to work at it will all he's got. He's got to meet her needs, all of them, not just the fluffy ones. It is time to teach her how he now values her and that he can be trusted with all the load she's been bearing alone. Like I said before OP, best wishes! You have a long road ahead.

lovingpet

(in reply to DesFIP)

Profile

Post #: 25

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/20/2009 7:06:28 PM

wildflower26

Posts: 17
Joined: 8/6/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Wow. I retract my earlier suggestion of spending unfocused, undirected time with your wife. The two of you have built up too much hostility for that. You need to just spend time with her first with a focused activity, no real unfocused talk time, first.

I once learned that there are four languages of love: spending time together, doing tasks for your loved one, buying gifts, and *ahem* the physical aspects. What is your style - what would your wife need to do to make you feel loved? You clearly do not spend time with her, and she's starved for it.

Surprise her. On your way home, go rent a video and buy a picnic-type lunch like fried chicken. Set up an impromptu picnic and watch the video with her.

One of my theories about women is that they handle routine less well than men, It means more to them when a man surprises them. Use that and try to do something unexpected maybe every other week Tickets to an escapist movie might be another idea.

After a few more surprises, she may be ready for you to rebuild the relationship.

on the love languages -- yup, can learn more about that from a Gary Chapman book, "the five love languages" -- the fifth is words of affirmation. **Steven, you still get 4 points. well, and 10 more for thinking to bring the topic up.** :)

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Profile

Post #: 26

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/21/2009 2:54:15 AM

subdirector

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/17/2009
From: Detroit
Status: offline

A woman's perspective .. and you did ask.

And I have learned a thing or two hopefully, took all of your thoughts on the subject and proceeded as follows. The 4 of us all went out to dinner along the water front talked for the first time in a long time about communication and the importance of being honest even it means hurting someones feelings in the the short term in the long run it will be for the better and a lot of other things just sorta came up several hours went by like minutes, we haven't laughed that much in a long time and no it wasn't the drinks we honestly had a good time no pressure no hype just a good time all around seems it has been a lot longer than I thought since we had done anything without having to rush rush rush, We took a long stroll along the river walk and parted ways it was great, like the world of my shoulders.

So I figured you made it this far with out catastrophe lay it on the line get it over with, so the 3 of us come home get comfortable and hopped online surfed around a bit ended up here. My shame until now, clicked on this post and I went to the kitchen to fetch a downer, seems to me World War 3 is about to erupt several seconds go by and hysterical laughter erupts I mean roll on the floor piss your pants kind of laughter, I'm no stranger to shame mind you but this was bad, tears are rolling down checks they are laughing so hard they ended up having to go outside and regain composure, for Christs sake.

There is a whole new level of humble when somebody laughs so hard at you they piss themselves, so after several hours of going over the thread and the fact that communication is not my strong point. Seems I left out some important variables such as before the second marriage the girls were lovers by choice nothing to do with me, The 3 something thing did not come about till our wedding night, so breakfast was together in bed, as for the sex thing 90% of the time its them going at it and that's great for me I just have to mow the lawn occasionally.

As for me being the Man that part just rolled em as did it me, don't know how I came across as that and the victim to boot, see I told you my communication skills were shady, a woman controls her environment with intellect a man with a club this I respect and try not to cross it, a lot like gravity accept it or burn. Truth be told the two of them make 3 times the money I do and have professional careers, me I'm a mutt contractor for the railroad Feast to Famine kind of job lots of travel hard work in bad places a grunt profession to say the least.

As for mom, 6 marriage counselors 2 mental health professionals and one judge have all stated the same thing get as far away from that woman as humanly possible she is toxic for you and corrosive as acid, Funny thing is she retired after 36 years having worked her way through collage and ending up in a administrative position completely on her own no one in her struggle ever. That demands huge respect I am in awe of a woman's power to succeed in any given situation should she chose, while that does not excuse the fact the woman loves to hate me as much as she loves me and when you perceive that as love a stable relationship is just not on the table until some perceptions change.

So we have all agreed on some type of couples counseling cant wait to explain that one to the therapist, and by the way the girls agreed with you all 100% and should be posting a profile for themselves soon as I can get the digital camera a new charger so you all know who your speaking with.

Lovingpet you have some deep thoughts young lady it will take me a week to begin to comprehend some of that but I assure you dear, Victim is the Dr Jeckel to my Hyde by no means did I go into this blind, Tinkering with Pandora's box is my endorphin rush.

(in reply to wildflower26)

Profile

Post #: 27

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/21/2009 6:18:53 AM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

re: a counselor... a kink friendly therapist should be pretty open to what you all need to present.

BUT

You admit that your communication skills suck... and they really, REALLY do.
Many people who were looking out for your best interest have told you to get away from mom and instead you have put her up on a pedestal.

WTF?

The hell you are in is really of your own making.

You do not seem to want to make the changes that are needed to move to a healthier mental state.

Going to the best therapist in the world isn't going to do jack on it's own... there is no wellness by osmosis.
You need to want to change and you need to be willing to move heaven and earth (and your mother) to do it.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to subdirector)

Profile

Post #: 28

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/21/2009 2:32:29 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

Well OP, before I go any farther let me just say that after your last post, I'm...confused...

I checked your profile and you list as dominant. According to what you wrote here, I don't know how I reconsile the two. These gals seem to pretty well run you. Maybe that's unfair, but I call em like I see em. Think about how things went when you got home and decide for yourself. If what they want and need from you is dominance, then they are far from receiving it. In all that talking, did you set any boundaries? If or when they crossed them, did you do anything about it?

I understand from your last post that your mother worked hard to raise you and to accomplish in her life. Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with her letting go and stepping out of the way of her ADULT child. This is a boundary thing. I don't know how to help you understand that. I am sure she is a nominee for sainthood, but she has no place within your personal relationships. Requested advice or help aside, she needs to stay out of your business.

Counseling sounds like a good idea. Consider some one on one for yourself though in addition to the couples' sessions. You need it in order to work on this major issue of boundaries.

I know I offered some hard advice. I just know what my subly self would want from someone who is supposed to be in that dominant position over me. I can't speak for others. I hope you will take what everyone is saying here and carefully weigh it all for the benefit of the three of you. We don't know you, but we certainly have all only tried to help. All my best!

lovingpet

(in reply to subdirector)

Profile

Post #: 29

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/22/2009 2:55:18 AM

subdirector

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/17/2009
From: Detroit
Status: offline

My ego problem = communication problem, immature to say the least and painfully obvious for all the world to see, humble pie is never a bad thing and I needed it, Pride cometh before a fall and I was about to walk off a cliff.

Nobody was laughing at the replies it was my perception of the situation that brings one to tears, talk about rationalization and justification, however the 800 pound gorilla has left the room, the whole mother issue was not an issue until it was brought to light here, now we are all on the same page before when I would put up a bitch they would dismiss it as your just pissed because we are right.

Now at least the problem has been brought to light, it is not resolved by any means, understand the problem and your halfway there. So this jest was not in vain and a lot of good will come of it. Karma takes care of It's own and that is why I was getting my ass kicked on the same token good things are sure to come your way, you all have my blessings for whats that's worth even a nod from the devil is not a bad thing.

James

(in reply to lovingpet)

Profile

Post #: 30

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/22/2009 4:00:14 AM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subdirector

My ego problem = communication problem, immature to say the least and painfully obvious for all the world to see, humble pie is never a bad thing and I needed it, Pride cometh before a fall and I was about to walk off a cliff.

Nobody was laughing at the replies it was my perception of the situation that brings one to tears, talk about rationalization and justification, however the 800 pound gorilla has left the room, the whole mother issue was not an issue until it was brought to light here, now we are all on the same page before when I would put up a bitch they would dismiss it as your just pissed because we are right.

Now at least the problem has been brought to light, it is not resolved by any means, understand the problem and your halfway there. So this jest was not in vain and a lot of good will come of it. Karma takes care of It's own and that is why I was getting my ass kicked on the same token good things are sure to come your way, you all have my blessings for whats that's worth even a nod from the devil is not a bad thing.

James

James,
Of course you knew your mother was an issue:

As for mom, 6 marriage counselors 2 mental health professionals and one judge have all stated the same thing get as far away from that woman as humanly possible she is toxic for you and corrosive as acid

AND:

I piss 1off It becomes 2 and when 2 can't break me they involve my mother.

You went to counselling for years.
Your head is still messed up.
Again, for therapy to work you have to be willing to change.
Change is scary; change is hard.

Going again is a good idea, whether or not anyone else goes. Maybe adding in a group therapy session into that (as people in the group tend to call each other on their BS)... and/or CoDA.

But if you don't want to change... it is your life. You only get one shot at it.
You can choose to muddle through and you have survived this long... or you can choose something else.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to subdirector)

Profile

Post #: 31

RE: Descent into hell > WHY? - 8/22/2009 4:22:39 AM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

Wow, yeah. What lovingpet said. (And probably everyone else- this is a fast reply.)

OP: Who's domming who?

Seems to me you are a service dom, aka service top. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you know that the women in your life are clearly domming you- not the other way around.

You're not the dom.

Self- awareness. Get some.

If you are doing it right, you can enjoy that whole service-topping thing!

If you don't want to do it, or don't enjoy it, then leave it.

Problem solved. Five cents, please!

...Next!

_____________________________

Download SLAVE LOVER. Explicit BDSM porn, with a plot! A love story, on a FemDom planet! http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Lover-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B0031ERBLI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261973416&sr=1

(in reply to subdirector)

Profile

Post #: 32