RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 8:36:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daes

What are your experiences? (Specifically with situations involving the lifestyle) Is there anything we can do as a community to bring more attention to these problems?

No one can deny that the community does have its rotten apples. I'm just bringing this topic up because I've been thinking about a lot of the things I've personally seen and heard, a bunch of horror stories, whether its rape, playing while drunk, unhealthy forms of control, or unsafe play and practices.

Now there's a small dungeon that doesnt clean their play areas. You have blood play and cutting at this club, a group of people that have Herpes that go there, and they don't SANITIZE the areas where blood is spilt. I made a comment about this to a friend of mine who goes there and says something to the equivalent of "What do you need more than rubbing alcohol?"

Can you imagine what could happen if you have someone there interested in blood sports that doesnt realize they have HIV and the staff at this club does not clean up the play areas? I mean really.

I had a friend of mine that was horrified that his Mistress would kill him if he tried leaving her, she was a psycopath that had slowly gained unlimited access to his house, and was deathly scared of calling the police for fear of what she would do to him. I tried telling him to change the locks, call the police and get a restraining order... I offered him as much help as I could and now I dont know where he is or what happened.

I have a friend who is a Domme that has had to "rehabilitate" some of her submissive friends that found themselves with violent/abusive "doms".

I know this kind of thing isn't "running rampant" throughout the community, I just wondered if anyone wanted to share cause the ugly side of the lifestyle is pretty damned ugly.


Why are you making this specifically about BDSM?

I could just as easily say "The UGLY side of College Life - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices"

Or any number of other scenarios. Stupid people put themselves in stupid situations. It's that pesky "natural selection" thing we keep trying to keep from happening.



allthatjaz -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 9:43:24 AM)

,
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daes

What are your experiences? (Specifically with situations involving the lifestyle) Is there anything we can do as a community to bring more attention to these problems?

actually not that many and I have been around a long while and that has included working my own dungeon, knowing many others with there own working dungeon, run my own club, DM'd at most clubs in London and been involved with the underground scene.
I have seen a few stupid players, met at least one sociopath, seen people coerced through ignorance but all in all I have seen a lot more harm come to people in the vanilla world.

No one can deny that the community does have its rotten apples. I'm just bringing this topic up because I've been thinking about a lot of the things I've personally seen and heard, a bunch of horror stories, whether its rape, playing while drunk, unhealthy forms of control, or unsafe play and practices.

Unsafe practices go on in all walks of life and that includes rape, unsafe drunkards, unhealthy forms of control and unsafe play, whatever that play deems to be.
I have seen very few drunks within the BDSM scene and I have to say that when I worked as a DM I was always getting concerned voyeurs asking me about a particular scene being unsafe when in fact it was perfectly safe but just a bit heavy for their viewing.

Now there's a small dungeon that doesnt clean their play areas. You have blood play and cutting at this club, a group of people that have Herpes that go there, and they don't SANITIZE the areas where blood is spilt. I made a comment about this to a friend of mine who goes there and says something to the equivalent of "What do you need more than rubbing alcohol?"

Can you imagine what could happen if you have someone there interested in blood sports that doesnt realize they have HIV and the staff at this club does not clean up the play areas? I mean really.

Rubbing alcohol will not kill the hep virus and most clubs have the sense to use hab tab solution or at least a similar sanitizer that is used in operating theaters. It should not be the job of the staff unless absolutely necessary. The person that has contaminated it should be cleaning it.
Once a club gets a rep for not cleaning down equipment then its on a hiding to nothing but nobody should be foolish enough to start using a peace of equipment that they haven't seen cleaned.
We still get prostitutes that charge more to go bare back and we still get piercing and tat parlors that don't follow precautions and we still get promiscuous vanilla people that will sleep with umpteen people in a week without protection but what we all have is the right to watch out for the risks and make decisions on that.

I had a friend of mine that was horrified that his Mistress would kill him if he tried leaving her, she was a psycopath that had slowly gained unlimited access to his house, and was deathly scared of calling the police for fear of what she would do to him. I tried telling him to change the locks, call the police and get a restraining order... I offered him as much help as I could and now I dont know where he is or what happened.

I have a friend who is a Domme that has had to "rehabilitate" some of her submissive friends that found themselves with violent/abusive "doms".

Some sounds a lot. I have known 'some' vanilla people that have been with violent partners and I have known one (in all the years I have been into this) seriously fucked up individual that was screwed by her Dom but then she had issues before she even got with him.

I know this kind of thing isn't "running rampant" throughout the community, I just wondered if anyone wanted to share cause the ugly side of the lifestyle is pretty damned ugly.


The ugly side of anything isn't nice but I don't think we should get carried away with all the horror stories we here. I remember when I first came on the scene and got chatting to a guy that had been around a while. Over coffee he told me about the underground dungeons where women are raped and ugly things go on. I was horrified as I sat listening to all the bollocks that spilled from his mouth. It took years to realize that he was a story teller of the worst kind.

I do think things happen but I think the abuse tends to be more in the long term relationships and would happen regardless of our lifestyle. They just happened to pick a partner that was the scum of the earth and thats a shame but not the fault of BDSM
We sometimes take risks and some people get talked into doing something they may regret later but all in all I believe this world is a fairly safe environment.



lilgirl2008 -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 9:54:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Daes


Now there's a small dungeon that doesnt clean their play areas. You have blood play and cutting at this club, a group of people that have Herpes that go there, and they don't SANITIZE the areas where blood is spilt. I made a comment about this to a friend of mine who goes there and says something to the equivalent of "What do you need more than rubbing alcohol?"

Can you imagine what could happen if you have someone there interested in blood sports that doesnt realize they have HIV and the staff at this club does not clean up the play areas? I mean really.



I'm just going to address this small portion. I never rely on anyone else for my safety. That is why I always sanitize whatever equipment I will be playing on before I start playing, and then after. That is how things are done in the clubs here in Chicago. There is disinfectent localed around the play space, but when I was with my last Dominant he even carried his own with him in his toy bag. That way it was up to us to remain safe. You would hope people would clean up after themselves, but some people do just not live up to the same standards. That being said....I choose to just clean equipment before ever getting on it..that way I know it is clean.



stella41b -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 10:11:55 AM)

You know in some superstores they wash fresh meat in detergents such as bleach and washing up liquid concentrate before repacking it and putting it back on display. The meat which they cannot 'rejuvenate' in this manner, particularly the meat which is past its sell by date and starting to go rotten is spiced, roasted and sold as 'fresh roast chicken' or 'BBQ ribs'.

I won't go into what goes into products such as sausages and cooked (prepared) meats, but let's just say that supermarkets also have their ugly sides, as does everything else. The thing is you've probably at some point eaten such meat and... guess what.... you're still alive.

Perhaps with the given exception that generally those of us in WIITWD are generally more aware than those who aren't, I refuse to make a distinction between BDSM, vanilla, sarsparilla or whatever for abuse, rape and unsafe practices take place in society.

Nor am I prepared to generalize and claim that it happens to stupid people or is perpetrated by stupid people, but would rather suggest that it is perpetrated by weak people in need of help and happens to people finding themselves in vulnerable situations who quite often don't see it coming until it is too late.

Every single relationship you form with someone else carries some degree of risk. While you can minimize the risk you cannot shut it out altogether.

But what can be done? As I've written earlier most victims of abuse, and I would wager almost every rape victim doesn't see it coming. It happens and all of a sudden they have to deal with it.

If they can't see it coming I don't really think we can either unless you're prepared to speculate, point fingers or generally treat people with suspicion i.e. guilty until proven innocent.

All I can suggest we can do, is to be there for them, to offer support and non-judgmental help but the truth of the matter is, is that until said victim has chosen themselves to try to become a survivor rather than a victim, there's not really a lot you, me or anyone else can do.




allthatjaz -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 10:23:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b



I won't go into what goes into products such as sausages



Go on stella..... tell us about the sausages? [;)]



Aanakaris -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 10:39:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b



I won't go into what goes into products such as sausages



Go on stella..... tell us about the sausages? [;)]



I am half Polish, without sausage life is not worth living.

This is out of context for the post, but if you truly knew everything that went on with your food, even vegetables, you'd be grossed out.

The same can be said for play practices, if you truly knew what had been done on the handle of that flogger you just picked up, you'd boil your hand in bleach. So just use good precautions, wash your hands, and eat sausage with every meal[:D].



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 12:40:10 PM)

quote:

And BDSM doesnt = greater


I may be off on this, but I read "greater" in this sense as "more intense", and, frankly, that -is- one reason that I participate in BDSM activities... one of the -same- reasons that I participate in piercing, tattooing, branding, cutting, etc.

Other than that, I don't have much to contribute. I've had a pretty scary life, and managed to come through with most of my skin intact, most of the time, and with the obvious exception of all the pieces and parts I've had punctured, cut, inked, burned, etc., (some of them in pretty seedy environs) so I guess I just don't scare easily from all the panic stories about what -may- happen -someday- if I don't take a -zillion- precautions.

DC



OrionTheWolf -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 2:29:15 PM)

~FR~

The topic should be called "The UGLY side of Human nature". The only reason i can see even the slightest relation to BDSM, is that many disturbed individuals are drawn to sadistic acts, inclusing those in BDSM. It is also easier to mask someone that may have a severe anti-social disorder within a BDSM activity. Many involved in BDSM for years can usually see some of the warning signs. Hell because of my personal philosophy in owning human property, I have been called a sociopath, but all that did is give me a smile at the time (hmmm maybe, nahhh). Many often cause the issue to be very clouded, but it is very simple in my opinion, and that is whether there is consent given at some point, concerning the activity.



LillyoftheVally -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 2:29:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

And BDSM doesnt = greater


I may be off on this, but I read "greater" in this sense as "more intense", and, frankly, that -is- one reason that I participate in BDSM activities... one of the -same- reasons that I participate in piercing, tattooing, branding, cutting, etc.



Yes but I would say that it is still more intense to the people that participate in it because they enjoy it, for many it wouldn't be more intense it would just be hellish.



Rhodes85 -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 8:35:16 PM)

First off, in regards to the blood thing, i'd report it to the health department. That place is a hepatitis outbreak waiting to happen.

What I think the OP is trying to say is that there are predators, abusers and the like that use bdsm as a hook to get at young, naive women (and men for that matter) and then justify abuse as claiming it is 'part of bdsm' believing that they are too ignorant of what actual bdsm is, and so they accept it. Unfortunately it does happen. Given what the bdsm lifestyle is like its a natural target of various unpleasant people and predators to find their victims. There really isn't much that can be done about it aside from educating new people about the difference between bdsm and actual abuse/exploitation and trying to id the abusers when possible.



ResidentSadist -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/19/2009 11:42:14 PM)

To stress ugly and punctuate it with “pretty damn ugly” in the same sentence sets a strong tone in the OP. You might think the OP seems to be biased against the ugly side of the pretty damn ugly BDSM ugly lifestyle. I suggest therapy.

Then the OP incorrectly lists those things that are NOT at all unique to our lifestyle like, rape, drunk, unhealthy or unsafe practices. A sexually oriented community or sex club has common health and safety issues like her dungeon story. If you saw the list of things on the bathroom door handle of a titty bar, you’d never go to the bathroom again.

Her incredibly poor choices for examples and biased tone has raised most of your defensive hackles. However, nowhere in the OP do I see her compare the BDSM community to any other community or ask us to do so. Your defenses seem aimed more at what she didn’t write that what she did write.

It is true that we have unique sets of situations and problems that do not often occur outside the BDSM community. However, this thread and the OP do not address them.



stella41b -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/20/2009 3:05:38 AM)

Can I also offset this with the beautiful side of BDSM - in my case around twenty five years of friendship, support and acceptance? Nobody has quite made the twenty five year mark, but there are people I know through such activities and I've known them for over 10 years or more.



UKEvolutionary -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/20/2009 7:21:46 AM)

I can see where the OP is coming from as there are a LOT of "predators" that "act" under the BDSM "Banner", but as the Majority know, there is a HELL of a lot more to BDSM that most people know, and to be honest, I am appauled that this type of behaviour is "linked" to the lifestyle as I feel it's a "slap in the face" to those that enjoy a D/s, M/s, BDSM relationship, But I guess that's the vanilla's looking at U/us and judging ?

My own opinion of the Original Post :- "The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices" is that it's got NOTHING to do with BDSM and everything to do with the "wannabees" that predate the internet.

As for the "Dungeons" !! "Now there's a small dungeon that doesnt clean their play areas. You have blood play and cutting at this club, a group of people that have Herpes that go there, and they don't SANITIZE the areas where blood is spilt. I made a comment about this to a friend of mine who goes there and says something to the equivalent of "What do you need more than rubbing alcohol?"

Can you imagine what could happen if you have someone there interested in blood sports that doesnt realize they have HIV and the staff at this club does not clean up the play areas? I mean really."

Rubbing alcohol will not kill the hep virus and most clubs have the sense to use hab tab solution or at least a similar sanitizer that is used in operating theaters. It should not be the job of the staff unless absolutely necessary. The person that has contaminated it should be cleaning it.
Once a club gets a rep for not cleaning down equipment then its on a hiding to nothing but nobody should be foolish enough to start using a peace of equipment that they haven't seen cleaned.
We still get prostitutes that charge more to go bare back and we still get piercing and tat parlors that don't follow precautions and we still get promiscuous vanilla people that will sleep with umpteen people in a week without protection but what we all have is the right to watch out for the risks and make decisions on that.

Using Alchohol on blood actually "fixes" it !! as the poster of My highlighted post said, Haz Tabs is the "correct" treatment for cleaning blood spills.
For those who have no idea what a "Haz tab" is, it's a tablet consisting of a strong Hypochlorite. So in laymans terms, A solution of water and bleach (Chlorine ) using gloves and disposable cloths should be used and then disposed of in a "Hazardous waste" container along with the gloves and any protective wear.



BoundBrosef -> RE: The UGLY Side of BDSM - Abuse, Rape, and Unsafe Practices (8/20/2009 7:24:35 AM)

Dateline? Chris Hansen? Stale cookies or brownies on the table with lemonade?



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