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OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming back ... - 8/19/2009 6:50:56 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		I am not really complaining, just, well...complaining lol.

There was an open rally at the school yesterday for teenagers; the topic was sexual education ( safe sex, abstinence, birth control, etc etc )

One of the speakers started talking about the risks of unprotected sex, and one of the risks she brought up was cervical cancer caused by HPV. If you have been keeping up with the news, you will know that they are pushing the drug Gardasil as a means to keep 'teenagers' from contacting this. ANYWAY........the speaker finishes with her spiel..and goes on to ask if there are any questions.

WELL....my wonderful daughter...who has had many a talk with me about sex, protection, birth control, diseases...you name it, we covered it....stands up and asks the speaker WHY they were pushing this drug instead of pushing the idea of birth control, safe sex, abstinence....

What follows is a fifteen minute debate in which my daughter and the speaker square off on what's better...practicing responsibility or umm...getting a shot and hoping that things go right (my daughters words lol ).

The speaker is insisting that the only way to protect yourself is to get the shot...my daughter is insisting that the only way to protect yourself is to practice responsible, safe sex...to which the speaker asks 'what happens when the condom breaks'. My daughter looks at her and says ( and I quote ) "then I guess I am shit out of luck, aren't I?. Of course, having been properly advised on the consequences of sexual relations, me being me, I would accept the responsibility for being immature in the first place and giving in to peer pressure to have sex"

The whole flippin auditorium was quiet...I swear you could have heard a pin drop...then all of a sudden, everyone started laughing. The poor speaker never stood a chance lol.

As for me..well, I am sitting next to my daughter...slumped in my chair with my hand over my face, trying to be as small as possible and failing miserably because I was laughing so hard.

I am just curious as to what everyone elses reaction is to this drug they are pushing. Are you for it or against it?

personally...I am against it simply because there just is not enough information on it to make an informed choice...my daughter is opposed because she see's it as a way of telling teenagers to go ahead and have sex.

Curious minds want to know....

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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 7:01:48 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		I dont have an opinion of teh stuff one way or the other (I'm way past the age they say to use it, and I havent got kids)..   but DAMN!!  Yer girlkidlet  ROCKS!!

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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 7:05:05 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Personally, I think it is a good idea as your daughter (best case scenario) will eventually meet and marry and have a monogamous relationship with a man that you will be happy and proud to call a son in law.  Problem is, what if he is asymptomatically carrying HPV?  A lot of men have it and noone knows.  He gives it to your daughter, PAP smear isnt read properly and voila, motherless children.  I understand of course that you have to make an informed decision.  Cervical cancer is one of the biggest killers of young women out there and is mostly preventable.  This stuff should be preferably administered before any sexual contact.  The stories that it will increase promiscuity among young people is a result of the far right wing that has found out that their "abstinence only" programs are a miserable failure when it comes to preventing teenage pregnancies so they grasp at straws and try to find another way to scare hell out of people.  The pregnancy rates havent changed a bit in areas where it is the preferred method of sex education

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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 7:18:53 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		I intensely dislike it.  They aren't pushing a new drug in the hopes of saving lives, or preventing disease..... they're pushing it to make money.
 
It hasn't had anywhere near enough time to know what the long term effects are going to be.  It certainly hasn't had sufficient follow through to show that it's actually going to be Effective for what they Claim - without even more significant side effects.
 
Mist - kudos to the kiddo on standing up for her opinions, and to you for seeing to it that she had a basis to have an Informed opinion!

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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 7:20:18 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Sexually transmitted diseases have consequences that are beneficial to populations that do not mutilate the penises of their males: they force women to be extremely selective in their choice of partner and in their decision to have intercourse.

Your daughter rocks!

(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 8:14:21 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

Sexually transmitted diseases have consequences that are beneficial to populations that do not mutilate the penises of their males: they force women to be extremely selective in their choice of partner and in their decision to have intercourse.
And they don't have the same effect the world over? Its only where circumcision is practiced that STDs are an issue.....interesting.

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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 8:25:32 AM   
Rainfire


Posts: 4047
Joined: 1/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

I intensely dislike it.  They aren't pushing a new drug in the hopes of saving lives, or preventing disease..... they're pushing it to make money.
 
It hasn't had anywhere near enough time to know what the long term effects are going to be.  It certainly hasn't had sufficient follow through to show that it's actually going to be Effective for what they Claim - without even more significant side effects.
 
Mist - kudos to the kiddo on standing up for her opinions, and to you for seeing to it that she had a basis to have an Informed opinion!


  what she said..... especially the fact that it's all about making money on a new drug they don't know shit about.

Mist, ya got quite a daughter there!!! May mine be like her too!


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Or is this the beginning of the end?"
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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 8:36:30 AM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

I intensely dislike it.  They aren't pushing a new drug in the hopes of saving lives, or preventing disease..... they're pushing it to make money.
 
It hasn't had anywhere near enough time to know what the long term effects are going to be.  It certainly hasn't had sufficient follow through to show that it's actually going to be Effective for what they Claim - without even more significant side effects.
 
Mist - kudos to the kiddo on standing up for her opinions, and to you for seeing to it that she had a basis to have an Informed opinion!


What she said - again.

Also, some of the serious negative side effects have gotten some coverage on the net. Might have to do some digging to find them.

Personally I only have unprotected sex with people I am blood bound with. Otherwise, much as I dislike them, I use condoms.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 9:18:42 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
they don't have the same effect the world over? Its only where circumcision is practiced that STDs are an issue.....interesting.

Different ways to handle sexually transmitted diseases will have different effects on the constitution and evolution of the gene pools as well as on the correlated culture of the population. Its like wherever one is located, when one goes north he will inevitably end up at the north pole; whereas when one goes south, he will end up at the south pole.

(in reply to Arpig)
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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 9:29:48 AM   
lilgirl2008


Posts: 73
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline 		I just love how the media loves to scare people. The reality about HPV is that if you have HPV you may develop cervical cancer. It does not mean you WILL develop cervical cancer. HPV does not always show up in tests. So you could be carrying HPV and not ever know it. But cervical cancer is not a death sentence. If you do what you are supposed to do, which is yearly pap smears, they would catch it early enough that it should never be a problem. Plus HPV is not the only cause of cervical cancer. Guess what I had cervical cancer when I was a teenager LONG before I was ever sexually active. So the drug companies use these scare tactics to get you to use their product . And guess what this one is working. How many people do you hear that actually die from cervical cancer? I agree with your daughter on this one. Teaching our young ladies to practice safe sex would be better then a shot. The shot doesn't do anything to stop pregnancy and that is more rampant problem in our society then HPV or cervical cancer. I don't have any daughters, but if i did I doubt I would make her get these series of shots.

(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 9:32:12 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Early in the 1900s the major foundations sought to numb education.

Condons do break.

I do however --have come to not automatically trust science.   That is because so much of it is profit driven- monetized- and not truly science.

The thing- good here is to always ask questions.   I was raised to ASK.   Question everything.   I would guess a good number of us on this board was raised that way.



(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 9:35:01 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I dont have an opinion of teh stuff one way or the other (I'm way past the age they say to use it, and I havent got kids)..   but DAMN!!  Yer girlkidlet  ROCKS!!
i agree...but lets go to the source.....

IRISH MIST.....GOOD JOB, MOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 9:36:21 AM   
cornflakegirl


Posts: 183
Joined: 7/1/2009
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainfire

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

I intensely dislike it.  They aren't pushing a new drug in the hopes of saving lives, or preventing disease..... they're pushing it to make money.
 
It hasn't had anywhere near enough time to know what the long term effects are going to be.  It certainly hasn't had sufficient follow through to show that it's actually going to be Effective for what they Claim - without even more significant side effects.
 
Mist - kudos to the kiddo on standing up for her opinions, and to you for seeing to it that she had a basis to have an Informed opinion!


  what she said..... especially the fact that it's all about making money on a new drug they don't know shit about.

Mist, ya got quite a daughter there!!! May mine be like her too!




Hear, hear! I am very against the HPV shot. It doesn't cover all the strains and has serious side effects. I think the fallout will be that girls believe they are protected and thus skip potentially life saving condoms and pap smears. The net net will be more HPV and more cancer. :(

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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 9:48:26 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
they don't have the same effect the world over? Its only where circumcision is practiced that STDs are an issue.....interesting.

Different ways to handle sexually transmitted diseases will have different effects on the constitution and evolution of the gene pools as well as on the correlated culture of the population. Its like wherever one is located, when one goes north he will inevitably end up at the north pole; whereas when one goes south, he will end up at the south pole.


rule... may I suggest that you return to the earth that the rest of us are living on?  Just because you seem to think you are special doesnt mean that the human race as a whole is subject to your fantasy whirligig logic.

STDs ARE NOT a perfect means of population control.

You ARE NOT the arbitrator of divine justice.

YOU DO NOT have a private line to the divine.


GET OVER YOURSELF/.



_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 9:55:05 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

Hear, hear! I am very against the HPV shot. It doesn't cover all the strains and has serious side effects. I think the fallout will be that girls believe they are protected and thus skip potentially life saving condoms and pap smears. The net net will be more HPV and more cancer. :(
i agree. But lets not lose sight of the fact that there will always be a less than educated kid that is going to feel they are safe from HIV because they had the shot.

The similarity in the abbreviations is not a good thing....


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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 10:05:25 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

I am not really complaining, just, well...complaining lol.

There was an open rally at the school yesterday for teenagers; the topic was sexual education ( safe sex, abstinence, birth control, etc etc )

One of the speakers started talking about the risks of unprotected sex, and one of the risks she brought up was cervical cancer caused by HPV. If you have been keeping up with the news, you will know that they are pushing the drug Gardasil as a means to keep 'teenagers' from contacting this. ANYWAY........the speaker finishes with her spiel..and goes on to ask if there are any questions.

WELL....my wonderful daughter...who has had many a talk with me about sex, protection, birth control, diseases...you name it, we covered it....stands up and asks the speaker WHY they were pushing this drug instead of pushing the idea of birth control, safe sex, abstinence....

What follows is a fifteen minute debate in which my daughter and the speaker square off on what's better...practicing responsibility or umm...getting a shot and hoping that things go right (my daughters words lol ).

The speaker is insisting that the only way to protect yourself is to get the shot...my daughter is insisting that the only way to protect yourself is to practice responsible, safe sex...to which the speaker asks 'what happens when the condom breaks'. My daughter looks at her and says ( and I quote ) "then I guess I am shit out of luck, aren't I?. Of course, having been properly advised on the consequences of sexual relations, me being me, I would accept the responsibility for being immature in the first place and giving in to peer pressure to have sex"

Actually even with 100% correct condom usage HPV can still spread, most recent study showed correct condom usage during every sexual encounter cut transmission of HPV by only 70%.

IOW the speaker was right. The only ways to protect a young woman from HPV and the increased risk of cervical cancer is 100% abstinence for life or the vaccination.

BTW Garasil is one of the most heavily tested drugs ever put on the market and has never been linked to any side effects beyond those associated with getting any other injection.

(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 10:25:12 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop
STDs ARE NOT a perfect means of population control.

Where have I said anything about population control? I am talking about principles of evolution biology and genetics and their consequences. What does any of that science stuff have to do with a link to the divine? What are you talking about?

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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 10:40:50 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		I have to go nap.  I gotta work this evening.

But when I get back I will happily link the post where you said that HIV and other STDs were a good means of population control.


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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 10:58:36 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Pff, you won't find any such post.

Edited to add: Murphy's Law again: Anyone who thinks that stds, disasters, war or genocide reduce a population, is wrong. The opposite will occur: the population will increase. That is because fertile May thinks: "My poor uncle Benny died from influenza / was shot. I am inconsolable. I will make up for it by having three(, five, seven) more children".

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/19/2009 11:03:54 AM >

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RE: OMG...it seems that my open talk policy is coming b... - 8/19/2009 11:03:14 AM   
cornflakegirl


Posts: 183
Joined: 7/1/2009
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

The only ways to protect a young woman from HPV and the increased risk of cervical cancer is 100% abstinence for life or the vaccination.


Gardasil protects against some strains of HPV that cause some cancers. It absolutely DOES NOT universally protect a young woman from HPV or increased risk of cervical cancer. Thirty percent (almost a full third) of cervical cancer cases are caused by something other than what this shot supposedly protects against.

_____________________________

I am flawed, but I am cleaning up so well.

Away from the computer more often than not.

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Profile   Post #: 20
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