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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/1/2006 6:21:21 AM   
DiannaVesta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aimtoplease101

DiannaVesta--Thanks for sharing/ re-posting that material. A follow up question or two, if you'll indulge one. A key difference I perceive in your writing/ philosophy from Elise Sutton's is that Sutton seems to believe that Female Supremacy actually represents the "correct" natural order. That is, it's not just a potentially good idea and alternative cultural viewpoint, but really the way the world "should be."

Is that something you ascribe to, or is your brand of female dominance more of a personal orientation?

Many of the female dominants on this board seem to be as likely to be dominant towards other women as to men. Is that the case with you as well?

Thanks again-- ATP



I would lie if I said I didn’t wish it were that way. Any culture wants to project itself and become more realized. Still I also appreciate the differences in the world. There are millions of plants and species in this world yet categorized in general they are different. We are all human and yet we are all different socially, culturally & intellectually. I believe my views tend to lean more metaphysically then absolute. The big picture I have has no gender nor does it have dark or light, good or evil, yet in this here and now, on this plane I deal with many circumstances which are the lessons God, Goddess, all that Is, The One, places before me bring me closer to that BIG picture where we are all one… no different, all connected, no one superior.

So my work on this plane…in this here and now is to strive for balance through ritual, symbols, extremes & whatever measures I feel are necessary. I am also a creature of pleasure and this brings me pleasure. Still I remain focus on the big picture. This is my world and the dimensions I live in. This is the reality I create. To think that it’s the only one or the only choice would be foolish. I know better then this that is why I respect all points of view, however I will not support blatant ignorance and prejudice towards another choices.

As for dominating women… once again it’s not gender specific. It’s about feminine priorities and the paradoxical shift that allows us to appreciate one another without the fucked up society rules of what men and women SHOULD be. We will always struggle with this because it’s ingrained into our psyche. The words, extremes, ritual and daily practice help us escape that to a degree. Does this make sense? For the men AND women who feel comfortable being loved & owned, cared and valued but a strong dominant woman.


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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/1/2006 7:02:35 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

I'm assuming you are talking about Clara Harris. She ran over her cheating husband three times in her Mercedes-Benz in Houston, Texas. She was convicted and got 20 years.


The question is, was she related to JEAN HARRIS:

http://www.catholic.org/ae/tv/review.php?id=18585



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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/1/2006 8:04:03 AM   
MrDiscipline44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
lol- I know MrD I thought about a link but then I would be accused of promoting my commercial venues. I get enough shit as it is. So did you read it all?? lol

I'll be honest with you Dianna, I got to the fifth paragraph and thought I'd skim down.....
and down......
and down......
and down......
and still down some more..........
When I finally got to the end I said to myself "Ain't no bloody way I'll read all of that tonight. Or even this week." LOL But I will have to read it though. If for nothing more then to just get a better handle on the Fem. Supremist point of view.

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/4/2006 6:09:19 AM   
DiannaVesta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44


quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
lol- I know MrD I thought about a link but then I would be accused of promoting my commercial venues. I get enough shit as it is. So did you read it all?? lol

I'll be honest with you Dianna, I got to the fifth paragraph and thought I'd skim down.....
and down......
and down......
and down......
and still down some more..........
When I finally got to the end I said to myself "Ain't no bloody way I'll read all of that tonight. Or even this week." LOL But I will have to read it though. If for nothing more then to just get a better handle on the Fem. Supremist point of view.



Thank you for that respect and consideration MrD. I knew it was long, it's an article. I think it says alot about the type of man you are, having a different lifestyle then mine and yet keeping an open eye to the rest of the world without passing judgement.

Dianna


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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/4/2006 8:47:54 AM   
TexasMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aimtoplease101

I've been reading Elise Sutton's articles concerning her theories on female supremacy, and why she believes it represents the natural order.

From what I can determine from communities such as collarme.com, however, there appear to be as many, if not more, submissive females as dominant ones out there. I don't find Ms. Sutton's explanation of submissive females as anomalies/ anachronisms particularly persuasive.

What's your take on this topic?

ATP


My take is:

Elise has Her views; I have Mine.

Doesn't mean She's 'right', doesn't mean I'm 'right', it means we each have our views.

Like as not, for every Elise Sutton, and every Texas Maam, and every Miss Tress, and every GoddessDustyGold, and every IronBear, and every John Warren, and every other member at CollarMe, there will be those who concurr with our 'views' and who will gravitate towards us as a result.

Silly question, Aimtoplease1. Silly.

Texas Maam

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 2:13:45 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

i am begining to think that female supremacy may in fact be nothing more than a figment of someones imagination since no fem supremist has shown up either here or on my supreme thread. Supreme-E-est of Supreme i am leaning toward concluding its all hot air, no premise, no substance and not real. yet you see profile after profile of people who claim to be it or into it.


Here I am…

I remember back in the early 80’s living in South Florida. I use to wear a pentagram around my neck & I actually had to remove it when I visited some establishments and even some dear friends because it invoked so much fear and anger. No matter how hard I tired to explain what Wicca & the path of the Goddess, I constantly encounter ridicule and controversy. Actually I don’t think anyone really cared to listen to what I had to say or what it meant to me. They had a vision of evil and witchcraft that has become archetypical.



wow!

when i thought i would catch up on the forums i had no idea what i was getting into here! LOL That was some serious kind of long! but i read it cover to cover!

The best i can tell you are matriarchial minded. i was not able to see anything that indicated you were a supremacist other than one statement where i think you felt that the world would be in better hands with a woman in control. but you did not really support it with anything beyond that one statement.

what i was hoping for was a good case for female supremacy. you might enjoy celeste's post in the supreme e ist thread on this. i think it will make a few of the male supremists chew on leather and think a bit to rebutt it.


oh yeh, and i think i seen a pic of you once upon a time wearing your pentagram. i like the one with the goats head with drooping ears superimposed on it :)

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/19/2006 2:15:42 AM >


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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 2:53:36 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

You are correct, Sir... (as i chew the black feathers)...

she's eligible for parole in 10 years for a murder.


10 years.........amazing and disgusting.

Level

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 3:07:04 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Petruchio

quote:

Again this weird idea that feminism is some monolith system.


Of course it isn't, but some tried to make it so. It was not at all unusual for NOW to eject members who diagreed with their philosophy, including author Camille Pagila. Some groups, like Feminist Action League in New England, wore scissors around their necks to public events and ejected attendees they only THOUGHT would oppose them.

BTW, the first feminist author I'm aware of that advocated universal castration for men was Andrea Dworkin. After being outed at a NYC club as a masochist with a master, she has since backed away from her original posit.




Good examples of why many despise feminism.........but, as Tammy Jo said, not all feminists are like that....I am no expert, but I've enjoyed some of the work of Christina Hoff Sommers.........and finally, I urge anyone wanting a look at how some feminism can go awry, and hurt society, to read Warren Farrell's "Women Can't Hear What Men Don't Say"....it sounds touchy-feely, and the first part of it is, but the second half or so goes into detail about feminism's dark side....Farrell was elected 3 times to NOW's national board, but when he began to question unfairness towards men, many feminist ostracised him.

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 5:37:23 AM   
caitlyn


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Clara Harris is not going to get parole in ten years, nor did she get special treatment because she is a woman.

She was a first time offender involved in a crime of passion. She got the same sentence that anyone else in Texas would have gotten for that same crime, male for female.

What you might consider, is that the majority of women on this board weren't even fucking born when all these feminists decisions were made ... and nobody ever asked us in advance what kind of world we wanted to live in. To this day, still nobody has asked me.

This constant bashing of feminism on this board, just makes those that are doing it, look weak.

At what point don't some, understand that this is American and NOW is a political action committee, with all the hangers-on groups that every other political action committee has. Members of most neo-Nazi groups are also also mostly members of the NRA. Under the logic used by some here, we should be bashing the NRA, because they support neo-Nazi groups.


< Message edited by caitlyn -- 3/19/2006 5:41:39 AM >

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 5:43:49 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
Members of most neo-Nazi groups are also mostly members of the NRA. Under the logic used by some here, we should be bashing the NRA, because they support neo-Nazi groups.


I am not a member of the NRA because they are not extreme enough. But I find no evidence of this statements validity.

Jus' Me.
Ron

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 6:32:56 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Clara Harris is not going to get parole in ten years, nor did she get special treatment because she is a woman.

She was a first time offender involved in a crime of passion. She got the same sentence that anyone else in Texas would have gotten for that same crime, male for female.

What you might consider, is that the majority of women on this board weren't even fucking born when all these feminists decisions were made ... and nobody ever asked us in advance what kind of world we wanted to live in. To this day, still nobody has asked me.

This constant bashing of feminism on this board, just makes those that are doing it, look weak.

At what point don't some, understand that this is American and NOW is a political action committee, with all the hangers-on groups that every other political action committee has. Members of most neo-Nazi groups are also also mostly members of the NRA. Under the logic used by some here, we should be bashing the NRA, because they support neo-Nazi groups.



Its funny --- the conclusions people draw without having all the facts. Its funny how even more conclusory people are with fewer facts. This is the primary reason for closed mindedness, the whole discomfort of reconsidering one's easy conclusions can be avoided altogether.

Thanks for setting the record straight.

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 7:44:29 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Clara Harris is not going to get parole in ten years, nor did she get special treatment because she is a woman.

She was a first time offender involved in a crime of passion. She got the same sentence that anyone else in Texas would have gotten for that same crime, male for female.

What you might consider, is that the majority of women on this board weren't even fucking born when all these feminists decisions were made ... and nobody ever asked us in advance what kind of world we wanted to live in. To this day, still nobody has asked me.

This constant bashing of feminism on this board, just makes those that are doing it, look weak.

At what point don't some, understand that this is American and NOW is a political action committee, with all the hangers-on groups that every other political action committee has. Members of most neo-Nazi groups are also also mostly members of the NRA. Under the logic used by some here, we should be bashing the NRA, because they support neo-Nazi groups.



Its funny --- the conclusions people draw without having all the facts. Its funny how even more conclusory people are with fewer facts. This is the primary reason for closed mindedness, the whole discomfort of reconsidering one's easy conclusions can be avoided altogether.

Thanks for setting the record straight.



Jurors found her Guilty of Murder, and yes, they also decided she acted with "sudden passion", thus changing the punishment phase of the trial. She could have been given as little as probation. The jury gave her 20 years and a $10,000.00 fine, and she will be eligible for parole in 10 years.

Her stepdaughter Lindsey, the victim's daughter, was in the car with Harris when she repeatedly ran him over. The 17 year old testified at trial that she attempted suicide 4 times in the months after her father's murder.

As for "bashing feminism" and thus making oneself look "weak"..........I only "bash" that which deserves it. This is not weakness, weakness is laying like a whipped dog while hateful fools spew lies and attempt to destroy others.

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 8:10:36 AM   
luckyslaveboync


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With regard to female supremacy and Elise Sutton, lucky's owner rejects female supremacy on the usual ground already expressed in this thread that no one category of people is innately superior. lucky, of course, agrees with that.

But this thread evokes two other thoughts:

First, there is so very many worthless femdom sites out there, lucky does find Sutton's one of the very few worth keeping up with because it carries discussions lucky finds interesting and useful.

Second, the way lucky looks at female supremacy is much like when Kant said that though we cannot prove the existence of God, it is best if we act "as if" He exists. likewise, though lucky does not believe females are inherently superior, life is more serendipitous is lucky acts "as if" the women in this sub's life are.

Just random thoughts,
lucky

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 8:56:25 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Laughing...yeah...that's like when I call Customer Service at Verizon, I begin the conversation AS IF I don't know that the person on the other end is going to be an idiot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyslaveboync

Second, the way lucky looks at female supremacy is much like when Kant said that though we cannot prove the existence of God, it is best if we act "as if" He exists. likewise, though lucky does not believe females are inherently superior, life is more serendipitous is lucky acts "as if" the women in this sub's life are.


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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 10:09:32 AM   
Aimtoplease101


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Silly to ask for others' views on a topic? With 7 levels of replies, I don't understand understand why you'd say that.

Regards, ATP
quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aimtoplease101

I've been reading Elise Sutton's articles concerning her theories on female supremacy, and why she believes it represents the natural order.

From what I can determine from communities such as collarme.com, however, there appear to be as many, if not more, submissive females as dominant ones out there. I don't find Ms. Sutton's explanation of submissive females as anomalies/ anachronisms particularly persuasive.

What's your take on this topic?

ATP


My take is:

Elise has Her views; I have Mine.

Doesn't mean She's 'right', doesn't mean I'm 'right', it means we each have our views.

Like as not, for every Elise Sutton, and every Texas Maam, and every Miss Tress, and every GoddessDustyGold, and every IronBear, and every John Warren, and every other member at CollarMe, there will be those who concurr with our 'views' and who will gravitate towards us as a result.

Silly question, Aimtoplease1. Silly.

Texas Maam



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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 10:36:20 AM   
TeeGO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyslaveboync

With regard to female supremacy and Elise Sutton, lucky's owner rejects female supremacy on the usual ground already expressed in this thread that no one category of people is innately superior. lucky, of course, agrees with that.

But this thread evokes two other thoughts:

First, there is so very many worthless femdom sites out there, lucky does find Sutton's one of the very few worth keeping up with because it carries discussions lucky finds interesting and useful.

Second, the way lucky looks at female supremacy is much like when Kant said that though we cannot prove the existence of God, it is best if we act "as if" He exists. likewise, though lucky does not believe females are inherently superior, life is more serendipitous is lucky acts "as if" the women in this sub's life are.

Just random thoughts,
lucky



I too enjoy reading her site. I enjoy it for it's entertainment value. As I have stated before I do not hold to any type supremacy. But as I am wired, I do like to treat the women in my life as superiors.

Why you may ask? Because I want to and I like to, it’s that simple. I simply adore a strong willed woman. I CRAVE to make any I feel submissive to happy in any way I can. That’s my choice, and I’m happy with it.

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 11:06:26 AM   
DelightMachine


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quote:

I am not a member of the NRA because they are not extreme enough. But I find no evidence of this statements validity.

Jus' Me.
Ron


I'm keeping that in mind, Mr. MnOttertail, Sir, and I hope you don't take personally any disagreements we may have on this board. Sir.

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 12:59:30 PM   
mnottertail


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Sir,

You have my word, that even if such a thing could (though I highly doubt it) comes to pass, no matter how rancorous, I will not take it personally.....

I will see it always in the light of two passionate people having a passionate disagreement.

(Since you don't really know me, I tell alotta inside jokes of which I am the only insider sometimes. The NRA comment being one of them.)

Sincerely,

Ron

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 3:05:46 PM   
amayos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

As for "bashing feminism" and thus making oneself look "weak"..........I only "bash" that which deserves it. This is not weakness, weakness is laying like a whipped dog while hateful fools spew lies and attempt to destroy others.



Agreed.

There is quite often a dangerous silence that surrounds femisinformation. Those who point out its shortcomings so often are labeled as insensitive, intolerant—or in this case, apparently—"weak".

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RE: Is Elise Sutton right? - 3/19/2006 3:45:39 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Jurors found her Guilty of Murder, and yes, they also decided she acted with "sudden passion", thus changing the punishment phase of the trial. She could have been given as little as probation. The jury gave her 20 years and a $10,000.00 fine, and she will be eligible for parole in 10 years.

Her stepdaughter Lindsey, the victim's daughter, was in the car with Harris when she repeatedly ran him over. The 17 year old testified at trial that she attempted suicide 4 times in the months after her father's murder.

As for "bashing feminism" and thus making oneself look "weak"..........I only "bash" that which deserves it. This is not weakness, weakness is laying like a whipped dog while hateful fools spew lies and attempt to destroy others.

Level[/color]


I don't really see what this has do do with feminism but I suppose this is the kernal of some observer's outrage:

> It goes without saying that were the genders reversed nobody would be talking about infidelity as a justification for murder. Imagine a woman trapped in a loveless marriage with a jealous, potentially violent husband whom she believes may be cheating on her. She stays in the marriage because she fears she could be separated from her children should they divorce, and finds understanding, companionship and passion in a relationship with a coworker. Her husband finds out about the affair and goes on a violent, jealous rampage, slaughtering her in front of her daughter as the daughter begs him not to kill her mother.

There would be no tears or excuses proffered for the killer, and he would be just one more murderer sitting on Texas’ death row. The public would view the woman’s affair as a sad, desperate attempt to gain some comfort in the hellish life her brute of a husband had imposed on her. The mere mention of the fact that his wife had been cheating on him as an excuse for murder would be correctly denounced by feminists, who would also express outrage at the murderer’s "blame the victim" defense.

Listening to the public and media reaction to the Harris case one would imagine that infidelity were a vice owned exclusively by the male of the human species. In reality, research estimates that for every five unfaithful husbands, there are four unfaithful wives. According to the American Association of Blood Banks, of the nearly 300,000 cases evaluated each year in the United States, roughly 30% exclude the tested individual as the biological father of the children he thought were his. Even blood typing examinations taken decades ago showed that at a bare minimum 10% of the fathers who signed their babies' birth certificates were unknowingly claiming paternity of children who weren't theirs. <

http://mensightmagazine.com/Articles/Sacks/davidharris.htm

I suppose I see Gauge courtroom principles in action here, but if the murder were committed in the heat of passion, in some states in can be downgraded to heat of passion involuntary manslaughter. On rage oriented spousal killings lacking premeditated scheming and planning, the "heat of passion" defense is usually an effective one.

The bias against men in such cases is based on the realities that men are more violent and regularly do beat up on and brutalize women.

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