RE: Revisionist History? (Full Version)

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UtopianRanger -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/25/2006 1:11:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

So much for my topic. :::sigh::: [>:]


Hi Guage...

I hope this gets things back on topic.

Two things :

The closest comparison I see to Orwell's 1984, Is modern day London. There is something in the order of over eight-thousand surveillance cameras in the city and it still hasn't made much of dent in crime. I suspect the ''controllers'' knew that from the outset[8|]

The other thing I would mention is, there is still information from both Watergate and JFK that hasn't been declassified yet -- I find that rather ironic considering the supposed information has nothing to do with national security. I find it reprehensible that they continue to cover each others ass, regardless of what party they belong or whether they serve under the dutiful will of the people.

Thomas Jefferson spoke of a theory called ''Silent Assertion'' {I'll let those look it up and interpret it for themselves} and as long people stay quiet we will never see change.



- The Ranger



ShadeDiva -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/27/2006 9:29:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
don't forget marital =martial


Crap. How embarrassing, LOL!



JohnWarren -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 5:10:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ShadeDiva

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
don't forget marital =martial


Crap. How embarrassing, LOL!


Don't feel too bad. A local judo school had a sign up for the longest time offering marital arts training. I don't know if no one pointed it out or they got kidded but decided to leave it up.



Moloch -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 7:18:35 AM)

Well unlike Europe we have three ways to "vote" in America
1: The ballot box
2: The Jury Box
3: The cartridge box



Arpig -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 7:25:27 AM)

quote:

Well unlike Europe we have three ways to "vote" in America
1: The ballot box
2: The Jury Box
3: The cartridge box


#1 & #2 exist in any liberal democracy (and yes,the US IS a liberal democracy), and option #3 exists everywhere.



Moloch -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 7:44:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Well unlike Europe we have three ways to "vote" in America
1: The ballot box
2: The Jury Box
3: The cartridge box


#1 & #2 exist in any liberal democracy (and yes,the US IS a liberal democracy), and option #3 exists everywhere.


Have you been to England? Its a thought crime there to belive you have a right to own guns or defend yourdelf. They are trying to band chef knives/ remove shar tips from knives.
Besides our constitution directly implies option #3, and many of the people who sighned the declaration of independence said so themselves.
But yes we have many freedoms in America in one area and Europe has much more freedoms in other areas, I.E. Europe doesnt have "bible belt" laws.



Chaingang -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 8:35:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
quote:

Well unlike Europe we have three ways to "vote" in America
1: The ballot box
2: The Jury Box
3: The cartridge box

#1 & #2 exist in any liberal democracy (and yes,the US IS a liberal democracy), and option #3 exists everywhere.


Don't be so sure of #1 given the advent of Diebold voting boxes and other such electronic voting machines that leave no record of their processes: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

And #2 becomes more and more meaningless since most people have never heard of Jury Nullification which is precisely what makes the power of the jury a powerful final check against oppression: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

#3 is certainly the option of last resort, but people will have to be more uncomfortable than they are now for that to ever happen. And you know what Juvenal said, as long as people's bellies are full and they have their entertainments they almost never revolt. The name of the game today is "mindless self-gratification," or put another way "If it feels good, do it."

And so it goes...



Moloch -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 8:38:01 AM)

You would be surprised at the amount of people in America who read and belive in the constitution and are willing to give their life for it.



Chaingang -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 9:13:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch
You would be surprised at the amount of people in America who read and belive in the constitution and are willing to give their life for it.


You're right - I would be surprised. A simple majority of the people is not with them.

As far as that private little coup you maybe talking about goes, that's why the govt. has researched and developed bunker-bomb nukes. Buh-bye little coup...



Moloch -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 9:50:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch
You would be surprised at the amount of people in America who read and belive in the constitution and are willing to give their life for it.


You're right - I would be surprised. A simple majority of the people is not with them.

As far as that private little coup you maybe talking about goes, that's why the govt. has researched and developed bunker-bomb nukes. Buh-bye little coup...



I in no way or for implying a "coup" I belive that voting and lots of money thrown at lobby groups (I dontate every part of my pay check to NRA and GOA) will help with the current injustice in the system. NRA has mopped the floor with N.O. authority when they tried to disarm people during the flood. Right now Port Authority of New York and New Jersey are getting sued for millions of dollars because they are not obeying federal laws which are intended to protect indvidual rights, thanks to lobby organizations such as NRA and GOA.
As far as bunker-busting bombs... well turn on the TV and see how well they are working in Iraq.



incognitoinmass -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 11:10:47 AM)

It's your own rampant paranoia.

But, hey, if it gives your life an edginess you crave, then believe what you will.

First rule of any good conspiracy theorist: You have to want it to be true.

So, ask yourself, why do you want your little Orwellian vision to be true?



Moloch -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 11:21:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: incognitoinmass

It's your own rampant paranoia.

But, hey, if it gives your life an edginess you crave, then believe what you will.

First rule of any good conspiracy theorist: You have to want it to be true.

So, ask yourself, why do you want your little Orwellian vision to be true?


First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945




JohnWarren -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 11:22:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

Well unlike Europe we have three ways to "vote" in America
3: The cartridge box


Not just in the US. I recall a cartoon from Playboy many years ago. Two men are holding rifles and hiding behind a barricade while bullets chip away on the wall behind them.

One is saying to the other "It's sad how more people don't show up to elections these days."



Moloch -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 11:28:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

Well unlike Europe we have three ways to "vote" in America
3: The cartridge box


Not just in the US. I recall a cartoon from Playboy many years ago. Two men are holding rifles and hiding behind a barricade while bullets chip away on the wall behind them.

One is saying to the other "It's sad how more people don't show up to elections these days."



Heheh, Id love to have that pictue on my T-Shirt! :)



incognitoinmass -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 11:37:17 AM)

As I said, you really need to ask yourself why you want this world vision to be true.



Moloch -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 11:49:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: incognitoinmass

As I said, you really need to ask yourself why you want this world vision to be true.


Because I lived in it, except it wasn't Englad it was Soviet Union and instead of big brother it was called Second Deprartament.



incognitoinmass -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 12:02:51 PM)

Then you of all people, can see the difference. If you cannot, or will not, then you must have some reason for wishing it so.

What is your reason?



Moloch -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 12:14:36 PM)

I dont feel like writing a long and drawn out essay, lets just leave at that. Im starting to see constitution and peoples rights trapled for "national security", "public saftey" , "for the children" etc.
No America is in no way or form is that regime from 1984, but we are on a slipper slope, and with such introductions as the Patriot Act and Homeland security we are tumbling down fast.



incognitoinmass -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 12:19:41 PM)

Easy to say, easy for you to believe, apparently. But working yourself into a tizzy and actually making a case are not the same thing. I would challenge you to support your Orwellian fantasy with something more than your vague allusions.



Moloch -> RE: Revisionist History? (2/28/2006 12:39:07 PM)

Our President is keeping secret wiretaps secret from the sectet court that was set up to oversee secret wiretaps.

We have a law that allows law enforcment to aquire library records to find out what books you have been checking out. Oh, they can do it and not tell you.

We have a law that allows law enforcment to search and seize your property, and not tell you about it untill weeks later.



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