RE: Code d' Odalisque

RE: Code d' Odalisque (Full Version)

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LillyoftheVally -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 6:27:21 AM)
Personally I don't think cocks deserve to be idolised, they get way too much consideration as it is Also having been in numerous D/s relationships I have never seen the dominants I am with as God's, indeed I don't know many that do, which seems to instantly make that text totally irrelevant.

RapierFugue -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 6:36:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9 From my collection of Code d' Odalisque material. I don't think its on the website. Couldn't find it. Stan: "Don't care, don't care, don't care".

RapierFugue -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 6:37:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally Personally I don't think cocks deserve to be idolised, they get way too much consideration as it is There's always room for more [:D]

Prinsexx -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 6:45:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CarrieO What happens when/if a woman wakes up and realizes she needs more than a cock to make her happy? Downs a few anti-depressants with a few glugs of Merlot, turns over, goes back to sleep and waits for her husband to come home from ruling the World?

leadership527 -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 8:06:49 AM)
~fast reply~ OK, so I'm going to make a wild speculation here which could be totally off base, but here goes. In general, my observation is that the discussion forum side of collarme tends to have a large focus on those who seek a power dynamic in an actual real-life fashion. The code is clearly fantasy based. Again, I have nothing against a rich fantasy life which may have threads of god knows what woven into it.... pseudo-history in this case. But perhaps these forums are not the best place to find interested people -- hence the disdain that's generally being displayed here. Is this just a case of wrong audience for the product?

Musicmystery -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 8:18:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 ~fast reply~ OK, so I'm going to make a wild speculation here which could be totally off base, but here goes. In general, my observation is that the discussion forum side of collarme tends to have a large focus on those who seek a power dynamic in an actual real-life fashion. The code is clearly fantasy based. Again, I have nothing against a rich fantasy life which may have threads of god knows what woven into it.... pseudo-history in this case. But perhaps these forums are not the best place to find interested people -- hence the disdain that's generally being displayed here. Is this just a case of wrong audience for the product? Or perhaps it's because his purpose is to prompt his website, not discussion, and that's why no one's taking him seriously in a discussion forum. And what Jeff said. We live in reality over here. The sex is better. So are the lives in general.

leadership527 -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 8:42:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Or perhaps it's because his purpose is to prompt his website, not discussion, and that's why no one's taking him seriously in a discussion forum. I thought about that Music... but I had to ponder what if the web site were different and more suited to what I, at least, perceive as the general trend of interest on the forums. Granted, there's pretty much always at least some vioently negative reaction to any "way" because at least some perceive it as being forced upon them. But still, the geneal strength of the response to this one is, I think, telling.

RapierFugue -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 8:46:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Or perhaps it's because his purpose is to prompt his website, not discussion, and that's why no one's taking him seriously in a discussion forum. I thought about that Music... but I had to ponder what if the web site were different and more suited to what I, at least, perceive as the general trend of interest on the forums. Granted, there's pretty much always at least some vioently negative reaction to any "way" because at least some perceive it as being forced upon them. But still, the geneal strength of the response to this one is, I think, telling. Speaking personally, he comes over like one of those automated chat programs people used to write in the 1980s [:D] I don't think it's the message, so much as the messenger, I object to.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 8:47:07 AM)
^ What he said

CNJDom -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 10:43:54 AM)
This concept may work in a fantasy setting, or perhaps if we still had sultans, Chinese Emperors, or a few nomad Mongol Kings about...the culture and the time were often romanticized. But in this new world, the cultures that are dominant today can't really sustain this mode of living; especially in this Western culture of today. Would it be nice? Hell no. Too much has happened with too much technology. What's a good cockslave to do when SugaDad---I mean Master is away making the bacon, she's going to read books and preen, maybe a little X-box action while the toenail polish is drying? The slaves of old, did not have the influence and world exposure that we have today. The girls are smarter and it's really hard to keep them from the rest of this world and focused on your twig and berries. My sub and I discussed this notion, and with that all said and done, we figure to simplify it even further; perhaps these "specialists" could go at it like the medical profession has specialists: One slave for oral, an anal slave, one for handjobs...that way they could focus on their OWN particular specialized fields...now they would have to know ALL about their arts. Isn't THAT more plausiable? maybe a set for each day of the week? The Monday girls wear one color, and Tuesday wears... It's all silly and ridculous. Not feasible. Either plan. That's because the world cannot sustain a harem like this on the whole. I'm sure there are still a few rich holdouts in the World that can afford this sort of behavior and lifestyle...But for myself: I live in a world of a poor economy, downsizing, two-income families (some with 3-jobs between them to live), and all around me living in fear of a little pink piece of paper. Reality sucks, just have to make the best of it. So if you can afford the "Code", great! But for the rest of us...well look around. Like I said, it's a nice concept, but I would also like to be able to work magic like Harry Potter and live like an Elf in a city waiting for Gandalf to come around...Good luck.

Gentlemanjohn9 -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 3:11:51 PM)
It does seem that this is the wrong audience for the Code d' Odalisque material. I've posted the same stuff in other fora without being greeted with a flood of derision and negativity. On the other hand, I have received a couple oif very nice emails from readers of this forum - its a pity they don't feel comfortable posting here. It says a lot about the ambience. As I've said, there is a growing community of Code d' Ode people. Obviously some people find it meets their needs. I correspond with three couples who dabble with this mode of Master/slave play, and I correspond with others who are looking. Interestingly, in nearly all cases so far these people report a general dissatisfaction with their encounters in the usual BDSM scenes. Most commonly they are looking for bondage play, captivity, in a sexual and hedonistic context but have instead run into SM, ego-trippers etc. They had had a bad experience. Codfe d' Odalisque was more what they are looking for. There are such peopple hanging around forums like this, but they;re lurkers nor posters. So, I am happy to endure whatever infantile insults and derision and narrow mindnedness is necessary to bring the Code d' Odalisque material to them. There are people who appreciate it.

playfulotter -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 3:26:17 PM)
I am confused by the line in one of your postings that says.... "1. A man purchases an odalisque because he loves woman. Slavekeepers in Code d’ Ode are resoundingly heterosexual - they love women..... Who are these men selling these slaves and isn't this illegal????

Gentlemanjohn9 -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 3:31:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: playfulotter I am confused by the line in one of your postings that says.... "1. A man purchases an odalisque because he loves woman. Slavekeepers in Code d’ Ode are resoundingly heterosexual - they love women..... Who are these men selling these slaves and isn't this illegal???? It is of course highly illegal to actually buy or sell human beings. This doesn't happen in Code d' Odalisque. Instead, pleasa read my previous post on 'Simulated Economy' or go to: http://www.codedodalisque.110mb.com/economy.html I hope this clarifies the issue. It is very important that people (and law enforcers) understand that the "purchase" of slaves in Code d' Odalisque is simulated only.

RapierFugue -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 3:38:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9 It does seem that this is the wrong audience for the Code d' Odalisque material. I've posted the same stuff in other fora without being greeted with a flood of derision and negativity. Really? Which ones? PS: "Fora" isn't the correct term. It's "Forums". quote: ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9 On the other hand, I have received a couple oif very nice emails from readers of this forum - its a pity they don't feel comfortable posting here. It says a lot about the ambience. As I've said, there is a growing community of Code d' Ode people. Obviously some people find it meets their needs. I correspond with three couples who dabble with this mode of Master/slave play, and I correspond with others who are looking. Interestingly, in nearly all cases so far these people report a general dissatisfaction with their encounters in the usual BDSM scenes. Most commonly they are looking for bondage play, captivity, in a sexual and hedonistic context but have instead run into SM, ego-trippers etc. They had had a bad experience. Codfe d' Odalisque was more what they are looking for. There are such peopple hanging around forums like this, but they;re lurkers nor posters. So, I am happy to endure whatever infantile insults and derision and narrow mindnedness is necessary to bring the Code d' Odalisque material to them. There are people who appreciate it. <nods sagely> Ah, the old "people have emailed me" line. A classic, and an excellent time to play that particular card. BTW, in any community of this sort you're going to be able to find someone who agrees with you. You could be suggesting beheading subs and boiling them in oil and someone would say "hey! that sounds hot!" ... as it were. As to the "ambience", I've seen a lot of UseNet groups, BDSM sites, and general forum sites. This is about the most friendly and genuinely welcoming place I've experienced, for the most part [1], therefore you may have to consider the merest possibility that the issues lie with yourself, rather than with everyone else. The only thing I take exception to is your accusation of "infantile insults"; I'd be delighted to give you some grown-up insults, but a) I don't actually feel you're worth the effort, b) I don't think you'd understand half of them and c) I'd get a (polite) warning email from a moderator, and I don't like to trouble the scorers if at all possible. All you're doing is continually pushing your somewhat tragic web site. That's fine, not a problem. Just don't expect that, when you remove the curtain and shout "TA-DAAAA!", people aren't going to stand back and go "oooh ... that's a bit crap" to themselves. And, indeed, to others. Free speech and all that. We have to sit here listen to your drivelling, you have endure a few brickbats without spitting the dummy. Ah, you just have, sorry. Well ok then, trying not to spit the dummy. [1] I did get my first emailed threat just this week, which I would have been more excited about if it hadn't a) apparently been a case of mistaken identity and b) clearly come from the keyboard of a card-carrying retard - slightly disappointing, that; poor effort, must try harder, 2/10

playfulotter -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 3:45:36 PM)
Thanks for the extra information....well, to me it sounds very much like those online fantasy role playing sites but in real life and I wouldn't see the relationship lasting very long if the woman isn't paid if there is no love involved....I think men will end up going through a lot of slaves which once again makes it sound like prostitution or an escort service of a sort..I was watching this story on the news about a site called "Sugarbabbies.com" or something like that and most of the young girls who were meeting older men said they wouldn't do it if there was no financial incentive and the men were saying that these girls really are into them...they are very deluded I think.

CNJDom -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/23/2009 9:54:28 PM)
Gentlemanjohn9: If you've found some enlightened and not-so infantile people here that desire and want to live in that sort of relationship dynamic, then wonderful! By all means I wish you and your comrades well in the pursuit of this endeavor. The inflammation on this end is initially due to presentation and supportive backup having the slight tinge of derogatory and dismissive tones to what BDSM is about. It isn't about just the pain, or the protocol, or the pleasure seeking on whatever level brings that individual to their personal "nirvana". The world of sexual behavior as well as the world of fetish and kink, have a historical background that can and should be respected in this particular forum...as your views and this alternative Code you are proposing, should be respected. If one hears or reads something that in some way diminishes that which they feel passionately about in a demeaning manner, then it is natural for them to defend or attack in some way. This was the initial reaction that I had when this Code was first posted, and I will not comment on it again in any form. A word of thanks for presenting this concept and for some it may have merit. For some it won't. But if it works for someone, then excellent! I have what I am enjoying and cultivating, and so love what appeals to me and those I'm with. It's our individual choices that fit us... bringing us to where we are in the world personally, spiritually, and physically to our convictions. We would do ourselves a disservice not to protect and defend those convictions and belief systems. Again, Good luck.

Gentlemanjohn9 -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/24/2009 1:12:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CNJDom Gentlemanjohn9: If you've found some enlightened and not-so infantile people here that desire and want to live in that sort of relationship dynamic, then wonderful! By all means I wish you and your comrades well in the pursuit of this endeavor. The inflammation on this end is initially due to presentation and supportive backup having the slight tinge of derogatory and dismissive tones to what BDSM is about. It isn't about just the pain, or the protocol, or the pleasure seeking on whatever level brings that individual to their personal "nirvana". The world of sexual behavior as well as the world of fetish and kink, have a historical background that can and should be respected in this particular forum...as your views and this alternative Code you are proposing, should be respected. If one hears or reads something that in some way diminishes that which they feel passionately about in a demeaning manner, then it is natural for them to defend or attack in some way. This was the initial reaction that I had when this Code was first posted, and I will not comment on it again in any form. A word of thanks for presenting this concept and for some it may have merit. For some it won't. But if it works for someone, then excellent! I have what I am enjoying and cultivating, and so love what appeals to me and those I'm with. It's our individual choices that fit us... bringing us to where we are in the world personally, spiritually, and physically to our convictions. We would do ourselves a disservice not to protect and defend those convictions and belief systems. Again, Good luck. Thanks. And point taken. I only add again that the material is not actually mine. I recognize that it does contain a vaguely derogatory tone towards some aspects of BDSM - it was written by people disgruntled by the experiences they'd had of BDSM - but I look beyond that and see a highly creative endeavour that is offering a new alternative with loads of info free. As always, I'm open to new ideas. I am also aware that this "genre" (whether role playing or not) has a growing following albeit as a sub-sub-sub culture. I figured that collarchat was the place to discuss it.

Gentlemanjohn9 -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/24/2009 2:03:02 AM)
Leaving aside the infantile I am disappointed with the calibre of discussion here. My complaint is that it is so conspicuously self-centred. Post after post offers not much more than "Its not for me." Of course I knew it would not be for everybody from the outset. But I diodn't actually come here for a show of hands. I was hoping for intelligent dispassionate discussion. I was hoping for a bit of chat about odalisque slavery in Ottoman High culture and instead, posters say such things as: "Personally I don't think cocks deserve to be idolised, they get way too much consideration as it is..." I can only say that when I began this thread I was not fishing for such personal opinions. At no point have I said, "Hey! Who'd like to get into Code d' Odalisque?" (And at no poiint, in fact, have I ever said that its my thing.) Its a bit like showing a group of people a fancy costume. Then they all respond, "Oh no! Yuk! I could never wear that!" Well, actually I wasn't asking you to put it on. I was only asking 'What do you make of this?' Why do you immediately see yourself wearing the costume? I can appreciate a costume without trying it on. "I'd hate being an odalisque..." is not an argument and its not useful discussion either. This is an appeal for some more dispassionate discussion. Set aside your personal tastes for a second and consider Code d' Odalisque (and the historical institution of the odalisque) dispassionately as another possibility within the wide spectrum of M/s lifestyles. That's all. Many thanks to those posters who have had a look at Code d' Odalisque and have offered some intelligent and insightful critique. http://www.codedodalisque.110mb.com/index.html PS: I refuse to get involved in redundant and silly debates about the words "play" and "game". Homo ludens.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/24/2009 2:22:25 AM)
BULLSHIT ALERT I love history and meaningful communication. I like roleplaying, even playing pirates and capturing slaves. It truly sounds like a great play party theme. I like a lot of things in this world and not everything has to be my brand or flavor of BDSM. However, I don’t like some fake BS about the history, origins or meaning of the very real odalisque harem rank. It all sounds so romantic, Kegels and all, but someone needs to call Penn & Teller to round up these Pirates of the Caribbean’s in their “Guild of the Black Pearl” for their next TV show called BULLSHIT. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BULLSHIT The OP says, “It revives the institution of “odalisque” - the pleasure slave - and draws upon the sensual slave traditions of the Orient for its inspiration.” TRUTH The word "odalisque" is French in form and originates from the Turkish odalık, meaning "chambermaid". It’s Turkish and has nothing to do with sensual slave traditions or the Orient . . . there is no “institution” or “tradition” of pleasure to “revive”. Reference: 8,365 etymology links ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BULLSHIT The OP says, “An odalisque is a female slave who is preserved from labour and toil in order to devote herself to sexual service. She is not a cook or cleaner, not a maid or houseslave.” TRUTH An odalisque isn’t used sexually, she is the harem’s chambermaid. A chambermaid is a “maid” that physically “labors” to “clean” bedrooms and bathrooms. MORE TRUTH In a harem, if you fuck your odalisque, she isn’t and odalisque anymore! She is a concubine. If she bears a child, she is promoted to wife. If she bears the first born son, she is promoted to kadin, highest female rank in the harem unless the Sultans mother is present. Reference: wiki odalisque wiki harem Dictionary chambermaid Historical Cheat Sheet ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Does Capitan Jack Sparrow really need better maid service??? The “Guild of the Black Pearl” under the Code d’ Odalisque say “The core mission of the Guild is to seek and find the true odalisques of the world and to bring them to their proper vocation.” . . . which as you all know by now is chambermaids! Reference: The Guild of the Black Pearl ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My grandfather was born in Constantinople Armenia, 1888. I have met real slaves that survived the Turkish genocide of the Armenians. I have also met Turkish slaves. I firmly believe that words have and must retain meaning or we would not be able to communicate. You can argue all day long about how much black or white is in gray but you cannot call black white. Bullshit definitions, false history and bad mislabeling is wrong and it can be dangerous. References: -=Belly Dancer Slave, a real nonconsensual slave=- -=Sub/Slave, Guppy/Shark, Role Mislabeling Fatal, Shame on You=- http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Harem http://www.amazon.co.uk/Imperial-Harem-Sovereignty-Ottoman-Studies/dp/0195086775 http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/268897/the_modern_harem.html?cat=17

BitaTruble -> RE: Code d' Odalisque (8/24/2009 2:22:25 AM)
quote: 'What do you make of this?' What I make of it is much the same that I make of any fetish. It is no different than someone whose only purpose in life is to worship feet. It doesn't matter who the feet belong to so long as the feet of someone get's worshipped. It takes away the personality of both the master and slave and reduces life to nothing more than body parts. The cock and the cunt. Sure they go well together, and for a lot of folks they are made for each other, but in all things human, they are the least of things. 50% of men get ED after the age of 50. The cock goes flaccid, limp. It no longer works for the purpose for which it was intended. What then? What else but for the slave to move to another cock that does work. A cock that is worthy of worship instead of the limp used-to-be. It objectifies the man who would be Master, making him nothing more than a boneless appendage. There is no need for thought, originality, personality, or thoughtful progress. How can such breed anything but stagnation, boredom, dissatisfaction that their whole being is less, viewed as less, worth less than a single piece of meat that has a 50/50 chance of being fairly useless later in life. For short term fantasy's, whatever floats your boat but for long term relationships with meaning and the stuff and substance of life .. I just don't see it. When the only thing that grows is your cock, that doesn't leave much room to grow in your humanity. I rather feel sorry for the man whose cock is the tool for a cockwhore to get off on. I don't see how you can ever have such a person loyal to you.. anymore than someone whose only purpose in life is to worship your feet and should something tragic happen to your feet, off they go to the next someone who will allow them to worship the new feet. Like I said before, it's a fleshy flogger .. perfect for the 'do-me' .. just 'do-me' in a different way and Master A's cock can't 'do-me', Master B's cock is just as good. What I read from the site is a lot of crowing about the cock, so I can't help but think that the only people it will attract are pricks. ::shrugs::

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