RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (Full Version)

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Lorr47 -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 5:08:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think we should point it at the DNC national headquarters.


If we name our new Raygun after Reagon, will it forget the coordinates and obliterate the RNC?



TheHeretic -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 5:18:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So, Woody, I'm guessing you've completely missed North Korea's efforts at launching ballistic missiles? 


More chance of you being struck by lightning than a North Korean missile Rich.



You think the odds are that good, Polite?  I was thinking I'm more likely to be hit by a winning lottery ticket.  For that matter, I'm probably a lot more likely to have the airplane that carries it crash into my house.

However, from the perspective of that crazy dictatorship's neighbors, it takes away the gun their "dear leader" wants to wave around.  Buck Rogers nonsense from the peanut gallery aside, this is a defensive weapon that can settle things down. 



MrRodgers -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 5:25:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

I see your point, even if I have no idea what a peanut butter cup is :)

Still reckon this is just another bit of probably never gonna be used military technology getting overhyped though.

You got it Woody. However it is only 'overhyped' to the extent people think they won't actually use them. It could be a plan to keep this up...so people will think they could. Fear is very profitable.

They say there is no last word in diplomacy. How about a very good first word...or 5 ?

"You can't use them...ever." So you are waisting your time and money as are the rest of us...worrying about you.

To do so would bring the world down on them and certain annihilation. Would it be worth it ?

They have to come to realize the answer to that question is an emphatic no.



Politesub53 -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 5:30:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You think the odds are that good, Polite?  I was thinking I'm more likely to be hit by a winning lottery ticket.  For that matter, I'm probably a lot more likely to have the airplane that carries it crash into my house.

However, from the perspective of that crazy dictatorship's neighbors, it takes away the gun their "dear leader" wants to wave around.  Buck Rogers nonsense from the peanut gallery aside, this is a defensive weapon that can settle things down. 


Rich, North Korea already face a nuclear deterrent, in the shape of US capabilities. While I agree this is a wonderful achievement in engineering, wouldnt the money spent save far more US lives if used in the health service. The logic of spending so much taxpayers money on this is frankly stunning.



Lorr47 -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 5:34:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So, Woody, I'm guessing you've completely missed North Korea's efforts at launching ballistic missiles? 


More chance of you being struck by lightning than a North Korean missile Rich.



You think the odds are that good, Polite?  I was thinking I'm more likely to be hit by a winning lottery ticket.  For that matter, I'm probably a lot more likely to have the airplane that carries it crash into my house.

However, from the perspective of that crazy dictatorship's neighbors, it takes away the gun their "dear leader" wants to wave around.  Buck Rogers nonsense from the peanut gallery aside, this is a defensive weapon that can settle things down. 


Are you saying that the laser has no chance of working but that we should keep pouring money into it?



TheHeretic -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 6:00:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

Are you saying that the laser has no chance of working but that we should keep pouring money into it?




Damn.  How the hell did you read that into me saying I'm not personally worried about a N. Korean missile?  Have you been studying RML posts or something???



TheHeretic -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 6:02:29 PM)

I'm a fan of pushing technology, Polite.  Who knows what we might figure out how to do while creating such a device?  I'm also not a believer in the paradigm that if we were just nice to everybody, all the bad in the world would disappear.



Lorr47 -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 6:16:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

Are you saying that the laser has no chance of working but that we should keep pouring money into it?




Damn.  How the hell did you read that into me saying I'm not personally worried about a N. Korean missile?  Have you been studying RML posts or something???


1.  You started out saying "If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer..." leading reasonable people to think in your words "This is a game changer..."

2.  Then you agree that it cannot hit anything.


I am interested in knowing why we would be developing a system that apparently does not have any prospect of being successful; not at least in the foreseeable future unless you can get the battleship Iowa airborne. No, I am not interested in reading another inane dissertation about the benefits of spending billions on proposed aircraft systems of questionable benefit.



TheHeretic -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 6:40:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

2.  Then you agree that it cannot hit anything.




I said no such thing Lorr.  I said I'm not worried about getting hit by a N. Korean missile. 

From what I understand, the laser is going to work very well, and that is scheduled to be demonstrated in the next few months.



PyrotheClown -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 6:48:52 PM)

haha,lookie that, the testing was done round here..

In any case, I believe missle deffense is a complete folly, doesn't take much brain matter to figure out that most of the countries that wanna kill us have a far easier way of gett'n heavey weapons over here.....by mail

think of how many shipping containers enter this country per minute
and yeah I know that these containers pass inspection After they enter us soil, but that's a little too late if we're talk'n bout nukes, am I right



Arpig -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 7:24:36 PM)

quote:

I see your point, even if I have no idea what a peanut butter cup is :)
I think we have just discovered what is at the root of all that is not right with the UK....how can you live without Reese's?



rulemylife -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 7:33:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

Are you saying that the laser has no chance of working but that we should keep pouring money into it?




Damn.  How the hell did you read that into me saying I'm not personally worried about a N. Korean missile?  Have you been studying RML posts or something???


You know, I've asked you on several occasions. in a polite manner, to address me directly if you have something to say to me.

Is there some reason you have a problem talking to me face-to-face, so to speak.

Not that there is any mystery about where the problem lies.



Arpig -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/22/2009 8:38:54 PM)

First of all Reagan's missile defence program was never intended to produce a working missile defence. It had two purposes,first and foremost to bankrupt the USSR in a super-high-tech research race the USSR had no chance of winning,and second to fund some very expensive research into energy/particle beams and such, mostly to determine if there was any point in further research/development. On both counts it was a smashing success,it did bankrupt the USSR (notice that its no longer around and that its successor state is a borderline basket case economically) and it did basically show that there was no point in most such research at the moment because there were still too many obstacles on the theoretical level.

Second, as far as the Iranians and North Koreans, their nuclear ambitions are strictly local in nature. Neither has any real ambition to challenge the US (or Russia or China) directly, however possession of a viable nuclear weapon & delivery system will make them very powerful regionally, and will give them a "doomsday" defence to use to ward off US agression (real or imagined)....invade us and we'll nuke your fucking troops and all your friends in the area....much like the Israeli nukes.

Third,as to the ABL, well that is just cool. I don't know how effective a weapon system it might be, I mean it is vastly expensive and you would need a shitload of them to defend the continent, but I guess that would depend on their range and accuracy. I suspect they might be more useful in a more limited regional role, probably not much use trying to defend against a Russian strike, but who knows....



DarkSteven -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/23/2009 7:48:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Think in terms of a 747, Steve.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_747_Airborne_Laser_Cutaway_lg.jpg

It flies, and they have been doing crazy stuff at Edwards for a long time.


Rich, I still don't like it.  A fighter plane needs to be light, fast, nimble.  This plane will be too easy to shoot down because it won't be able to maneuver well.  The only way I can see this working is if you had some bombing beforehand to soften up the targets, and then used this plane to quickly take out selected targets,  But in that case, a standard fighter aircraft could simply shoot guns.

Again, I don't see how the extra precision you get with a laser is worth the loss of agility.



TheHeretic -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/23/2009 8:26:45 AM)

This isn't a fighter aircraft, Steve.  It's built from a 747.  That's also the reason for my comment in the OP about the cancellation of the F-22.  We need to completely own the air for this plane to do what it does;  blow up ballistic missiles in the boost phase.




Loki45 -> RE: If we can stall Iran and North Korea just a little longer (8/23/2009 7:01:17 PM)

quote:

Original: TheHeretic
That's also the reason for my comment in the OP about the cancellation of the F-22.  We need to completely own the air for this plane to do what it does;  blow up ballistic missiles in the boost phase.


We do own the air already. Our current-gen planes do that quite well for us. We also she the F-22s. The program may not be active, but as I understand it we took delivery of a few before canceling the order for more. Aside from the 22, we have the F-35, which can do all that the 22 can, but is also more versatile as it has both carrier-launch capability as well as air-to-ground capabilities that the 22 does not.



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