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What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/22/2009 3:06:14 PM

Falkenstein

Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline

Hello to everybody,

I started recently a relationship with a great trusting girl who is enthousiastic about BDSM , the kinky part is a mix of play and real life submission / change of behavior. I am interested in going down this road and the behavior change part is great (I have done nothing serious yet), but I consider my responsibility to see all future implications.

So my questions for the more experienced among us:

Once we have done all training, she is a perfect slave and brings me my beer naked on all fours, what do we do? Sit in front of the television and look at "Desperate Housewifes"?

If she changes her mind in the process or after, how easy will it be for her to leave me and build a new life / relationship. Usually, girls -- well now women -- have no specific difficulties to dump me .-) but since the end of love is the occasion for a new one to start, I am not terribly unhappy. I would be however very upset if this girl were somehow bonded to me against her will.

Any input is welcome,

Kinky regards

Henry

_____________________________

Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

Post #: 1

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/22/2009 3:28:29 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

OK I'm experienced and even though it's a saturday night, as you can see I'm sitting here talking to mysef again so will try and answer your questions...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein

Hello to everybody,

I started recently a relationship with a great trusting girl who is enthousiastic about BDSM , the kinky part is a mix of play and real life submission / change of behavior. I am interested in going down this road and the behavior change part is great (I have done nothing serious yet), but I consider my responsibility to see all future implications.
It's great that you do see your responsibilities and are not so jaded that you don't give a damn.

So my questions for the more experienced among us:

Once we have done all training, she is a perfect slave and brings me my beer naked on all fours, what do we do? Sit in front of the television and look at "Desperate Housewifes"?
If you are any sort od sadist that is exactly what you will do/ Expect her to waych Desperate Housewives that is. OR if you are less sadistically inclined you could allow her to watch you drink the beer. Get her a doggy bowl and let her drink water or whatever...

If she changes her mind in the process or after, how easy will it be for her to leave me and build a new life / relationship.
That depends. It takes a few minutes to take off a collar, grab the case that was packed and pre-planned, a mobile and some spare cash and head for a friends.

How ong it takes her to emotionally release herself is a difficult one to answer. It has taken me a few minures, a few hours or a few months to shae off that sense of service unto another and get myself feeling complete again. Obviously I jave never met the 'One' otherwise I would never have left in the first place.

Usually, girls -- well now women -- have no specific difficulties to dump me .-) but since the end of love is the occasion for a new one to start, I am not terribly unhappy. I would be however very upset if this girl were somehow bonded to me against her will.
None of it is against her will if she consents. Even if she kiicks and screams.

Any input is welcome,

Kinky regards

Henry

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 2

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/22/2009 4:01:51 PM

califsue

Posts: 593
Joined: 2/2/2008
Status: offline

I think you have to decide for yourself. Relationships do end sometimes whether it involves kink or not. Sometimes a girl(woman) will change her mind and decide she may not like it like she thought or the male may decide she no longer fits him. This is true for either side of the kneel. Getting over someone especially if you have invested your heart is not always easy to get over but that is no different than getting over a 'vanilla' relationship.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 3

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/22/2009 4:02:56 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein
I started recently a relationship with a great trusting girl who is enthousiastic about BDSM , the kinky part is a mix of play and real life submission / change of behavior. I am interested in going down this road and the behavior change part is great (I have done nothing serious yet), but I consider my responsibility to see all future implications.

OK, but one of the lessons I learned is to not get TOO wrapped up in the idea that you need to be flawless. The way I conceptualized this for myself is that someone must needs run Carol's life. If it's not me, then it'd be her. But whoever is doing it, they aren't going to make a perfect job of it. I just need to do at least as good as she would.

quote:

Once we have done all training, she is a perfect slave and brings me my beer naked on all fours, what do we do? Sit in front of the television and look at "Desperate Housewifes"?

Yes. And yes, I'm serious. That would be what is commonly called "real life". Right now, Carol is painting the bathroom cabinets and I'm vacuuming (or will be soon). For the record though, if I want a beer I'd prefer if she just walked it over to me rather than making me wait while she crawled :)

quote:

If she changes her mind in the process or after, how easy will it be for her to leave me and build a new life / relationship. Usually, girls -- well now women -- have no specific difficulties to dump me .-) but since the end of love is the occasion for a new one to start, I am not terribly unhappy. I would be however very upset if this girl were somehow bonded to me against her will.

A good and worthy thought, but let's examine this whole "bonded to you" concept. I don't know about other subs, but the reason Carol is bonded to me is that she loves me, trusts me, and respects my leadership abilities. If those things became untrue, the bond would end. I do pay some attention to not letting her lean on me to the extent that she is unable to stand on her own. So while I normally do the "lead" things that she doesn't like to, periodically I make her do them just to keep her limber and to ensure those skills don't get lost.

Honestly, I worried in the beginning that Carol would somehow lose herself in her servitude. It didn't happen that way. She's still just Carol, the same woman I've always loved. She remains perfectly capable of voicing her opinions (and in fact has gotten better at that as my slave than she was as my wife). Think of it this way, if you are leading well, then all should be good. And based upon the nature of your questions and concerns, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you'll do just fine.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 4

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/22/2009 4:13:16 PM

MissCake

Posts: 149
Joined: 9/18/2008
Status: offline

She is not going to bond with you against her will. She's a person, not a furby. It just is not that all fire different from whatever it is we call vanilla. Yes, you're going to watch TV, and buy sponges at the store, and argue about the candidates and all that regular old stuff.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 5

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/22/2009 4:16:42 PM

MissJanice2

Posts: 178
Joined: 3/4/2009
Status: offline

In my humble opinion hun, you are taking the lifestyle a bit too serious. For example, my slave and I have been together six years in November.
We have periods we don't play. We have periods where we have fun. We have periods where we just be and enjoy.
That is what it is all about. It is all about the relationship itself.

Respectfully,

Mistress_Jan

_____________________________

Do not try to measure weight loss by pounds. Eat healthy and let it work slowly to achieve your goal.

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 6

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/22/2009 4:27:50 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

It has been my experience that most 24/7 M/s dynamics have the large part of their time doing what mundane couples do. M/s dynamics are after all a relationship which means there are ups and downs no matter if it is mono or poly. Even with house slaves/servants, there is only so much house work which needs to be done and I prefer slaves to have hobbies, education, sports and even a job if needs be. In all of this there can be the undertone of M/s in the way the slave treats you, defers to your wishes and addresses you. The most common issue for me tends to be my dislike of asking someone to stop in the middle of a chore to get my coffee when it is just a matter of me walking/hobbling twenty feet to the peculator and get one myself unless I am in a conference or busy in other areas.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MissJanice2)

Post #: 7

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 12:16:51 AM

Falkenstein

Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline

Prinsexx,

Thank your very much vor your enlightning answer.

If I understand you correctly, there is no significant difference between a vanilla and a kinky relationship in terms of dependency / attachment for the female slave. You see, what I am afraid of -- or maybe it is my deepest and darkest desire -- is that, once I get her trained for good, I will have modified her in some deep pattern. Of course this suppose I am an outstandingly good trainer ;-) But sometimes, even the stupidest, unfitest, gets his way. (In the press, the classical title for that is "England wins over Germany in football ;-)

From all the comments I have read sofar, I have the impression that this kind of "brainwash" is part of the BDSM myths and nothing else.

Your last line leave me puzzled: "None of it is against her will if she consents. Even if she kicks and screams"

Kinky Swiss regards

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

OK I'm experienced and even though it's a saturday night, as you can see I'm sitting here talking to mysef again so will try and answer your questions...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein

Hello to everybody,

I started recently a relationship with a great trusting girl who is enthousiastic about BDSM , the kinky part is a mix of play and real life submission / change of behavior. I am interested in going down this road and the behavior change part is great (I have done nothing serious yet), but I consider my responsibility to see all future implications.
It's great that you do see your responsibilities and are not so jaded that you don't give a damn.

So my questions for the more experienced among us:

Once we have done all training, she is a perfect slave and brings me my beer naked on all fours, what do we do? Sit in front of the television and look at "Desperate Housewifes"?
If you are any sort od sadist that is exactly what you will do/ Expect her to waych Desperate Housewives that is. OR if you are less sadistically inclined you could allow her to watch you drink the beer. Get her a doggy bowl and let her drink water or whatever...

If she changes her mind in the process or after, how easy will it be for her to leave me and build a new life / relationship.
That depends. It takes a few minutes to take off a collar, grab the case that was packed and pre-planned, a mobile and some spare cash and head for a friends.

How ong it takes her to emotionally release herself is a difficult one to answer. It has taken me a few minures, a few hours or a few months to shae off that sense of service unto another and get myself feeling complete again. Obviously I jave never met the 'One' otherwise I would never have left in the first place.

Usually, girls -- well now women -- have no specific difficulties to dump me .-) but since the end of love is the occasion for a new one to start, I am not terribly unhappy. I would be however very upset if this girl were somehow bonded to me against her will.
None of it is against her will if she consents. Even if she kiicks and screams.

Any input is welcome,

Kinky regards

Henry

_____________________________

Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 8

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 12:20:17 AM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissCake

She is not going to bond with you against her will. She's a person, not a furby.

For some reason that made me chortle no end. Many thanks

(in reply to MissCake)

Post #: 9

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 12:23:09 AM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein

Once we have done all training, she is a perfect slave and brings me my beer naked on all fours, what do we do? Sit in front of the television and look at "Desperate Housewifes"?

No. Original Twilight Zone episodes on DVD. Or Star Trek...

After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true. ~Spock

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 10

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 12:28:37 AM

cornflakegirl

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/1/2009
From: Arizona
Status: offline

I think your concern is valid, but that transition has been manageable in my life. I was involved in a 24/7 dynamic for a period and coming out of that was a little weird. I had to remind myself to go ahead and move forward with things on my own, as I could no longer go to my Dominant and get direction and leadership. It was an adjustment but it wasn't impossible and I learned a lot about myself and how I would do things differently in a future D/s dynamic.

_____________________________

I am flawed, but I am cleaning up so well.

Away from the computer more often than not.

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 11

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 3:40:56 AM

Falkenstein

Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline

I would add Californications and "X files" for good measure.

Somehow it is the same in any relationship, except that in a BDSM couple, the Master gets to decide what program will be watched and his slave must thank him for enlightning her mind with the all-time basketball records or the secret weapons of Stalingrad ;-)

Kinky regards

Henry

_____________________________

Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 12

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 8:39:41 AM

Goddess2002

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/29/2008
Status: offline

The "brainwashing" is just that...a myth. Nothing will happen if she doesn't consent to it.

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 13

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 8:49:04 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goddess2002
The "brainwashing" is just that...a myth. Nothing will happen if she doesn't consent to it.

I don't fully agree with this. Yes, Carol exercises independent judgement. But Carol also instinctively follows my lead both outside her body and inside her head. In short, she is a willing brainwashee and I'm pretty savvy about manipulative techniques. I could absolutely limit her ability to choose if I so desired. I couldn't get rid of it, but I could greatly constrain it. And, in so doing, I have removed her ability to consent in any meaningful fashion.

So at least in my marriage, the things Falkenstein is worrying about are definite possibilities. But they would take an active and long-term effort on my part to accomplish. It couldn't be done by accident. But that begs the question, why on earth would I wish to cripple the woman who is, pretty literally, the center of my universe?

In fact, I go the opposite way and reinforce regularly that consent, to me, is an ongoing process and she must watch and evaluate our relationship as it unfolds. Anything else would be, in my worldview, a non-consensual slave and therefor abhorrent to me.

This goes back to my statement that the dom is the leader. If he fears some outcome, the simple answer it to not lead in that direction.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 8/23/2009 8:50:18 AM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Goddess2002)

Post #: 14

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 9:13:28 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I read your threads last night and again today. I guess I am not going to change my opinion with time. You seem to have some kinky past of some sort from things you say on your profile and yet... I cannot believe you have much experience as a dominant in a relationship. (Not a bad thing... just one we all need to think about when it is true.) You seem to have some idea's formed or questions that in the long run should play out differently than you think.

You don't wish to do harm in something that I see as a good thing and yet it is all based on some idea of what things are supposed to be like. I could understand a bit of this if you were very young, but you aren't. You are looking for the most part, for young women and maybe that makes you feel they will be less of an individual or person. You seem to feel that they will need all this training to change their life, which in my opinion would only be needed if you found broken young women.

You are not magic... okay... there is no magic trick... training or the lifestyle and all that is different for all people, but my god... you expect to train someone who sounds broken and not adult if you think the way you do. That, as a submissive, if I were one, would warn me to stay away from you. You wish to humiliate, you wish to see her struggling with delema's, while fighting an almost public humiliation as she slowly submits to your authority... which sounds like you are looking at a potential woman as less than what she should be entering an adult relationship. Fantasy is not realistic and I think you have a bit of fantasy goin on.

I am sorry... I think... but I think before you go playing games of sorting out someone else's life... you might take a look at how you are viewing a number of things. Were you courting my daughter... she would be getting a very firm talking to from her mother.

Just my opinion...

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 15

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 9:28:18 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

So my questions for the more experienced among us:

Once we have done all training, she is a perfect slave and brings me my beer naked on all fours, what do we do? Sit in front of the television and look at "Desperate Housewifes"?

Your problem isn't with D/s--it's with living a life.

Get a hobby. Pursue interests. Grow in new directions. Get out and enjoy the world. Life is short.

Bring the girl along.

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 16

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 9:44:13 AM

daintydimples

Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline

So my questions for the more experienced among us:

Once we have done all training, she is a perfect slave and brings me my beer naked on all fours, what do we do? Sit in front of the television and look at "Desperate Housewifes"?

Get an imagination????

_____________________________

Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 17

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 3:03:03 PM

Falkenstein

Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline

Lockit, I am deeply flattered by your attention and very pained that you do not see me fit to be your son-in-law. But when a guy asks the questions I asked, it should be pretty obvious that he has no extensive experience, or more to the point, no complete experience and is not exactly shy about his lack of it.

So I do not know what is the end of the journey. Nobodies does for sure but asking the people who "have been there and done that" never made one a fool. Which is the reason why I am asking questions and getting actually some intelligent answers (as well as some flak, but who cares). You know, when I plan a sailing trip, I always reads first the pilot guide for the incoming harbour, when my mind is still fresh. If I do not like the amenities and surrounding, or if I find the approach above my skills and that of my crew, I look for another one. I there is none, I cancel the trip.

The first answers where the one I wanted to hear: (I simplify) No big danger, the enslaved girl is not conditionned so that she cannot break (for me, the ultima ratio in a relationship is still to walk away) BTW, what I am careful about is the ability of my girl to leave me and rebuild quickly a new life because it is a logical sign that the games we play consensually will not have fucked up her mind (and mine too). Being dumped is not something I am particurarly found of (I am no masochist [;-)] but it does not bother me immensely either.

The other, more cautionnary posts where of two types, either subs describing their difficult exit of a relationship or doms reflecting on the means at their disposition. It is logical that the difference in the answers reflect diverse experiences lived by different persons.

This is not exactly what I had expected, but it is not fallen in death ears. So I suppose I have to dig further and be careful in the meantime. Since I am in no hurry to sit in front of a television (even with my slave bringing me my beer on all fours, which is a physical impossibility), it suits me fine.

kinky regards to all

_____________________________

Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

(in reply to daintydimples)

Post #: 18

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 3:23:28 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

No, you are correct, it isn't rocket science that you don't have a lot of experience... but playing in the area's your profile mentions would be the reasoning behind my comments. Start out little dude... you don't need to be messing with people's heads before you know exactly what that lil humiliation and fantasy will do to it.

Asking questions is great! But asking questions while your head is filled with the things you mention is something I would worry about as a parent, friend, etc. You are jumping into the deep end without first learning to paddle your way there from the not so deep end.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 19

RE: What is the end of a D/s relationship? - 8/23/2009 3:26:57 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein

Prinsexx,

Thank your very much vor your enlightning answer.

If I understand you correctly, there is no significant difference between a vanilla and a kinky relationship in terms of dependency / attachment for the female slave. You see, what I am afraid of -- or maybe it is my deepest and darkest desire -- is that, once I get her trained for good, I will have modified her in some deep pattern. Of course this suppose I am an outstandingly good trainer ;-) But sometimes, even the stupidest, unfitest, gets his way. (In the press, the classical title for that is "England wins over Germany in football ;-)

From all the comments I have read sofar, I have the impression that this kind of "brainwash" is part of the BDSM myths and nothing else.

Your last line leave me puzzled: "None of it is against her will if she consents. Even if she kicks and screams"

Kinky Swiss regards

Well in theory at least there is no difference of attachment style as attachment style is said to be developed furing early childhood and then be extended into adult relationahips.
There were orihinally three syles identified: secure, ambivalent and avoident
see http://psychology.about.com/od/loveandattraction/a/attachment01.htm
These styles were further researched and extended to cover afult attachment styles and have become four:
secure, fearful. preoccupies, dismissing
see *the most fascinating research ever done imo)
http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/1842/2322/1/Hope+dissertation.pdf
(Evidence suggests that strangers attach in the same way as romantic couples... another thread> with regar to strangers on the internet...will start it later).
So we come loaded.
How many slaves come loaded with security or fearfulness or are preoccupied or are dismissing I don;t know. I would suggest that secure xlaves come pre-loaded with a secure attachment style and so on. Perhaps the ability to securely attach IS part of the slave style?
In theory: you could train a girl until the cows cmes home and you could not train her to be secure if she were already fearful. Food for thought?

As for being against her will.
I have been enslaved. I consented to no limits. However I have 'acted out' it being against my will and been punished for it. Something has to keep the wheels of the dynamic turnng.
Having consented to no limits then there is no such thing as against will. Having a will is having limits.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 8/23/2009 3:27:36 PM >

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 20

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