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Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 4:13:33 PM

SimplyV

Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline

*sighs* This may not make a whole lot of sense to you, but try to bear with me. I'm not sure if this should be under here or health and safety or...

Background: My sub is a sober alcoholic, and ex-druggie. He got clean 3 yrs ago. I met him a year ago.

He has multiple food allergies (shellfish, eggs) and a recently discovered one Milk. Small doses of Milk protien at first gives him a jolt of adrenaline and thus gives him a "high" then as he loses the high he gets paranoid, and a touch schiztophrenic-ish. As he comes down from the high, he gets an "itch" for more.. and gets insane cravings for things with milk in them.. like milk chocolate, sour cream and onion chips.. etc. (For those of you that doubt this is possible, I also have multiple food allergies and get the same reactions as he does though his are more severe than mine, but from corn derivatives).

I've been working with him to avoid milk in his diet, but it just kept getting in there in one form or another. My other sub, his caretaker, has been working with me on this as well.

We both just figured out today, that he is sneaking milk products in and hiding them so he can get his high. It is very much an addiction. I know if he can manage to stay away from it long enough that he should be able to beat the addiction, but I'm having doubts.

Has anyone else had to deal with addiction issues like this? What did you do? How did you manage it? Did it permanently hurt your trust? Did you get past it together?

Sometimes I just feel like throwing up my hands and giving up, but I love him too much.

Post #: 1

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 4:15:40 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Deal with it exactly as you would deal with any other addiction. No changes. How did he beat the habit before?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SimplyV)

Post #: 2

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 4:25:28 PM

DragonNphoenix

Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline

I have been clean almost 8 years and I know from my experience, that I would have done anything for the high... except hurt my kids. Maybe you need to deal with him like you would deal with someone who has any addiction... Send him to NA or to treatment... That is how I dealt with mine. Maybe talking to other submissives/slaves that are also in recovery might be a good thing for him also... I would be most willing to talk with him at anytime.

1st Girl Phoenix

_____________________________

**Pain is just pleasure with a twist**

(in reply to SimplyV)

Post #: 3

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 4:30:26 PM

SimplyV

Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Deal with it exactly as you would deal with any other addiction. No changes. How did he beat the habit before?

Hmm.. from what he told me.. He nearly died from an overdose, and decided he wanted to live.

I really don't want to get to that point.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 4

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 5:00:21 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

SimplyV

As sad as this is.. there's nothing you can do.. until he's ready to deal with it.. face it.. admit to it.. and do something about it.. and ask for help with it.

I so hate hearing those words... but dam they're so true. I hear them all the time about my smoking. But until I'm ready.... it's not gonna happen.

I wish you luck in this.. it's going to be a bumpy road. For all involved.

(Former Crystal Meth Lover here.. so I know this road.. but mine was cold turkey... 13 year clean now)

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 2/24/2006 5:01:19 PM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to SimplyV)

Post #: 5

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 5:08:04 PM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyV

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Deal with it exactly as you would deal with any other addiction. No changes. How did he beat the habit before?

Hmm.. from what he told me.. He nearly died from an overdose, and decided he wanted to live.

I really don't want to get to that point.

Is he going to meetings? Did he recently stop attending attending meetings? Addicts very often crave the sugar as a substitue. Switching one addiction for another is common. The problem of course is that it is a gateway to relapse. You need to get him to meetings. Are you sure he has not relapsed?

(in reply to SimplyV)

Post #: 6

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 5:16:07 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Oh, for fucks sake........why can't I get off on milk........

Got milk?????????

Any addiction is fine....

unless it affects a relationship......

then it is percieved as do you care more for the addiction than the relationship...........

This is a personal and intuitive thing.........

As a dominant, you could say that you live with the addiction or get out,
you could say that look......you can't help it you're fucked up by a common thing..........but you know what the deal is before you start or when you're in it, or when you're in it's aftermath....

So it comes down to is this a teneable relationship..........
If you are 'sneaking'.......fuckin' 'SNEAKING' now; mind you......
there is some unresolved issue, Ja? (I mean in and of itself) and that's the one thing that most of us can agree on, issues are resolvable or not......

Life is either too short or too long.

Which one is it........

Get it handled, end of joke.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 7

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 5:24:40 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

According to a physician i used to see, who specialized in orthomolecular medicine & various allergies, when a body is allergic to a substance it often craves it. He has found many alchoholics he sees are actually addicted to the sugar, rather than the alchohol (not true in all cases, only some).

L Glutamine is a great amino acid which kills sugar cravings. You can find it in any health food store. It can be taken in small or large quantities, as needed. Not sure if it will help with milk products, but may be worth a try.

Did he use a 12 step program for his other addictions? Perhaps that would help here.

Most importantly, does he want to stop? If he doesn't, it will be a problem until he does. Often with addictions, one must come to an extreme "crash" in order to turn around.

i do wish you the best in this painful situation.

(in reply to SimplyV)

Post #: 8

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 7:39:34 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

Yup when I wanted to stop my addiction to sucking my thumb because the staff at the group home at the time said it wasn't apropriate for me to do that I was like ok I won't put my thumb in my mouth, but I will put pens in my mouth It's either that or it's my thumb and I almost got hooked on chewing writing pens. one bad habbit in exchange for a worse one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

Switching one addiction for another is common.

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

Post #: 9

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 7:46:21 PM

foxglove716

Posts: 648
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

Yup, I agree with Truesub. He isnt going to stop for you or for anyone else... until *he* is ready. All you can do is be there for him. Did you try running a search for people with this kind of allergy to see what kinds of foods work for them? Just be strong, and remember his addiction is *his* problem, you didnt cause it, you dont fuel it, he doesnt do it to hurt you. Best of luck to both of you

_____________________________

Illusion is the first of all pleasures. -Oscar Wilde

(in reply to SimplyV)

Post #: 10

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 7:46:51 PM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Oh, for fucks sake........why can't I get off on milk........

Got milk?????????

Any addiction is fine....

unless it affects a relationship......

then it is percieved as do you care more for the addiction than the relationship...........

This is a personal and intuitive thing.........

As a dominant, you could say that you live with the addiction or get out,
you could say that look......you can't help it you're fucked up by a common thing..........but you know what the deal is before you start or when you're in it, or when you're in it's aftermath....

So it comes down to is this a teneable relationship..........
If you are 'sneaking'.......fuckin' 'SNEAKING' now; mind you......
there is some unresolved issue, Ja? (I mean in and of itself) and that's the one thing that most of us can agree on, issues are resolvable or not......

Life is either too short or too long.

Which one is it........

Get it handled, end of joke.

Ron

Horray!! My thoughts exactly. Take the freakin' kid gloves off, he has a problem, he needs to face it, but YOU do not have to face it with him. It's called Tough Love, happens all the time.
Good luck to you both.

_____________________________

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 11

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 8:05:37 PM

SimplyV

Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline

I've read the research about carbs and alcoholism, which some kind of biochemical genetic thing predisposes certain of us to those kinds of addictions. He does have that kind of genetic history as well. But this is a little different.

*sighs*

One of the problems is.. if he doesn't stop.. he will end up locked up in a padded room probably permanently. He is also allergic to several medications which are commonly used to help with panic attacks and what not.. which are caused by his milk allergy. Docs do not always listen when we tell them the problems. Many don't recognize the cognitive affects or addictive affects of allergic reactions. He was nearly locked up two months ago, and only got out due to a court order started by my other sub. The docs insisted he was mentally ill and would not change his meds or diet like we asked.

When he's not on something he's allergic to.. he's happy and well adjusted. When he is on something he's allergic to.. he's psychosRus. Depressed, paranoid, and likes to hurt himself.

So I have to do this by force right now, until his craving subsides.

I've managed to have his apt cleaned of anything containing milk. His access to money is taken away. He is supervised 24/7 by my other sub. I'm not sure what else to do.

He swings from hating me and my other sub. To begging us to understand his actions aren't his own, to wanting to hurt himself, to coniving to get out and get something "milk".. to accusing us of conspiring against him to lock him up.

Its a bunch of fun right now.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 12

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 8:08:58 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Dear MistressOfGa,

I think I understood what you said, and I think that you understood what I said.......and so there is no equvocation about the issue;

She can face it with him if that is her desire, but he has gotta wanna go her way, right?

No fucking around, now..........
If you wanna try the heartache, go for it.......you wanna try and be my slave, go for it.........

(see the rocky road????????????)

Even Dommes/Doms have limits........and there is a core value that should not be negotiable..........
He has these as you do, I am sure.

Wholly in agreement with MistressOfGA,

Tough Love..........Tough Love..... Tough choices......that is what makes life more than mundane.

I will say again; What is carved on your gravestone?

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 13

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/24/2006 11:47:53 PM

yourMissTress

Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyV

I've read the research about carbs and alcoholism, which some kind of biochemical genetic thing predisposes certain of us to those kinds of addictions. He does have that kind of genetic history as well. But this is a little different.

*sighs*

One of the problems is.. if he doesn't stop.. he will end up locked up in a padded room probably permanently. He is also allergic to several medications which are commonly used to help with panic attacks and what not.. which are caused by his milk allergy. Docs do not always listen when we tell them the problems. Many don't recognize the cognitive affects or addictive affects of allergic reactions. He was nearly locked up two months ago, and only got out due to a court order started by my other sub. The docs insisted he was mentally ill and would not change his meds or diet like we asked.

When he's not on something he's allergic to.. he's happy and well adjusted. When he is on something he's allergic to.. he's psychosRus. Depressed, paranoid, and likes to hurt himself.

So I have to do this by force right now, until his craving subsides.

I've managed to have his apt cleaned of anything containing milk. His access to money is taken away. He is supervised 24/7 by my other sub. I'm not sure what else to do.

He swings from hating me and my other sub. To begging us to understand his actions aren't his own, to wanting to hurt himself, to coniving to get out and get something "milk".. to accusing us of conspiring against him to lock him up.

Its a bunch of fun right now.

SimplyV, my advice comes from my own experience as a recovering addict, and as a soon to be AODA counselor.

What YOU can do is get yourself to an Alanon meeting. Purchase and read "Codependent No More" by Melanie Beatty. And take care of yourself.

If your sub is addicted and wants help, it's out there for him and he can get it. YOU can't do it for him. NO ONE can do it for him. Look at what's happening and you will see that you are only helping him focus on the symptoms and not the problem.

Addiction is only 5% using the drug of our choice, and the other 95% is the mind and behaviors of the addict. THE single most harmful aspect of an addict is self centeredness. By making him and his addiction the center of your life as well, you are only aiding him and furthering his cause.

You can't be more concerned about him and his life than he is about himself. He needs help that you can't give him. He needs treatment. He needs a 12 step program. He needs you to love him enough to let go. He can't hit bottom if you are there cushioning his fall.

_____________________________

Tress

"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother

(in reply to SimplyV)

Post #: 14

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/25/2006 2:35:31 PM

SimplyV

Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline

I just thought I'd update you on my plan and how things are going.

My sub yesterday would say "I'll be good." or "I'll stop eating milk I promise".. but I stuck to my guns and kept him away from any temptations. I knew he didn't realize how addicted he was, or what it was doing to him mentally. I mean really.. who thinks that normal foods that they've eaten for years are causing them harm? So I forced him to detox.

Last night, as he started shaking, sweating, detoxing.. and found himself with insane urges to eat foods that he knew had milk in them. He started to get the picture. He told me, "I'm sorry. I know I said this before, but I just didn't get it. I thought how could foods I've eaten be harmful. Now that I'm going through this, I understand." He admitted to even more sneaking of candies and what not that had milk in them.

He promised that he understood how severe this was. "I look at my actions. Sneaking foods, hiding things.. and you always knew when I got into it. You could always tell. This is not the behavior of someone who is ok." He told me that his behavior was that of an addict.

We will be finishing his detox together. I will hold him to his promises after that. I will try to keep him away from temptation as much as possible in the coming weeks, but in the end it is his choices that count.

Thank you all for your advice.

(As for the one person to decided to email him on here and personally attack him.. May your ass be reddend with a thousand lashes.

)

(in reply to yourMissTress)

Post #: 15

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/25/2006 3:40:24 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyV

I just thought I'd update you on my plan and how things are going.

First things first. Whats he allergic to? There are a lot of things in milk!
--------------------------
http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/dairyedu/chem.html

With all this in mind, only an approximate composition of milk can be given:
87.3% water (range of 85.5% - 88.7%)
3.9 % milkfat (range of 2.4% - 5.5%)
8.8% solids-not-fat (range of 7.9 - 10.0%):
protein 3.25% (3/4 casein)
lactose 4.6%
minerals 0.65% - Ca, P, citrate, Mg, K, Na, Zn, Cl, Fe, Cu, sulfate, bicarbonate, many others
acids 0.18% - citrate, formate, acetate, lactate, oxalate
enzymes - peroxidase, catalase, phosphatase, lipase
gases - oxygen, nitrogen
vitamins - A, C, D, thiamine, riboflavin, others
------------------

It seems to me you first need to determine exactly what it is that he is allergic to and work from there.

Then once that is discovered you can take whatever nuetralizes its effects.

such as ti prevent acid tummy when drinking a couple beers i eat an orange.

in the end if he does not take it upon himself to fix himself as others have said there is nothing you will do to fix him.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SimplyV)

Post #: 16

RE: Addiction and Trust Issues - 2/25/2006 3:45:09 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

I've read the research about carbs and alcoholism, which some kind of biochemical genetic thing predisposes certain of us to those kinds of addictions. He does have that kind of genetic history as well. But this is a little different.

*sighs*

One of the problems is.. if he doesn't stop.. he will end up locked up in a padded room probably permanently. He is also allergic to several medications which are commonly used to help with panic attacks and what not.. which are caused by his milk allergy. Docs do not always listen when we tell them the problems. Many don't recognize the cognitive affects or addictive affects of allergic reactions. He was nearly locked up two months ago, and only got out due to a court order started by my other sub. The docs insisted he was mentally ill and would not change his meds or diet like we asked.

When he's not on something he's allergic to.. he's happy and well adjusted. When he is on something he's allergic to.. he's psychosRus. Depressed, paranoid, and likes to hurt himself.

So I have to do this by force right now, until his craving subsides.

I've managed to have his apt cleaned of anything containing milk. His access to money is taken away. He is supervised 24/7 by my other sub. I'm not sure what else to do.

He swings from hating me and my other sub. To begging us to understand his actions aren't his own, to wanting to hurt himself, to coniving to get out and get something "milk".. to accusing us of conspiring against him to lock him up.

Its a bunch of fun right now.

hate to sound wierd.. but it actually sounds like it could be.. new kink in mind.. held against your will = ) consensually but non consenually

(in reply to SimplyV)

Post #: 17

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