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Esinn -> RE: Bible study the way it was meant to be (8/25/2009 9:49:53 AM)
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There are probably more Muslims in the world than Christians Esinn and the Quran is just as ill conceived as the bible. So perhaps the greater good in terms of spreading secularism would be to teach critical analysis of the Quran first then move on to the bible or do all religious texts jointly? quote:
ORIGINAL: FullCircle
There are probably more Muslims in the world than Christians Esinn and the Quran is just as ill conceived as the bible. So perhaps the greater good in terms of spreading secularism would be to teach critical analysis of the Quran first then move on to the bible or do all religious texts jointly?
It’s a bit naive to think someone can study any such text without some preconceived notion of what the conclusions will be. If it were easy to read the bible critically you wouldn’t end up with half as many nut jobs quoting it as justification for the things they do. The problem is that the person teaching it will be teaching their interpretation to their particular extreme bent similar to the way the Quran is taught in radical Madrasahs across the middle east. Critical is one of these subjective words; for how can you show contradictions where someone will argue one contradiction stands to reinforce the opposite meaning of another. i.e. you can teach someone the negative aspects of violence by creating a violent story or you can show a wonderful world without violence. People will just argue one thing is a metaphorical story and another thing is a historic event to be learnt from depending on what emphasis they want to put on things.
I'm suprised you don't see this but this has probably come about by radical Christians in America asking themselves how the Christian faith can be as important to them as the Islamic faith is to people in parts of the middle east. What the Christian hardliners are doing is copying a proven model they see working elsewhere in the world. It’s a slow creep but sooner or later you’ll have far more radical Christians because the same argument was made for the Madrasahs. i.e. let us find the true meaning of Islam through study so it can’t be misinterpreted, this however becomes a self fulfilling prophecy when you are studying an open ended text. You may use your bible study to show it’s contradictions but others will do it for different reasons and how are you going to police what is considered critical thought?
The better method is to just teach it on the basis that the thing exists and isn’t a rational argument to anything. You can’t do that by going into specifics because you risk giving the impression any of it is to be taken seriously and is on an equal footing to other subjects and texts that have come about through modern thought.
There are probably more Muslims in the world than Christians Esinn and the Quran is just as ill conceived as the bible. So perhaps the greater good in terms of spreading secularism would be to teach critical analysis of the Quran first then move on to the bible or do all religious texts jointly?
I agree 100%. Although I am sure it has existed since the invention of the print press, this idea was first given serious attention by Sam Harris in his book "End Of Faith"
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The problem is that the person teaching it will be teaching their interpretation to their particular extreme
Critical examination done in the hands of the wrong, uninformed or bias professor/teacher is a dangerous thing - here here!
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people will just argue one thing is a metaphorical story and another thing is a historic event to be learnt from depending on what emphasis they want to put on things.
People can argue what they want. Allah or Yhvh is real. Heaven is above the clouds or it is not. Demons make people sick or it is not. Evolution is a bi product of Satanists undercover of scientific inquiry or it is not.
I am very familiar with the above suggestion The truth though it is critical examination of the bible and science which has demonstrated that this a metaphor and this is not.
Consider 2 of the greatest theist scholars of modern times Ken Miller & Francis Collins. They are now forced to admit evolution is a fact. This contradicts every word in Genesis. No ancient doctrine, parchment or scroll was found that suggested god gave us evolution or intended its creation story to be accepted only as a metaphor - yet they are forced to accept this fact or loose their career. Science filled the once infamous 'god-gap' the story of Genesis. It filled it with such veracity denial of it would mean metaphorical suicide for them. However, if they made the claims a few hundred years ago, 'god did it - evolution sucks' they would have been hailed as heroes. It the wrong modern place or ancient era saying evolution did it, not god could have ended badly.
The reason any writing in the bible/Quran must be viewed as a 'story' by modern day man is just that. We are not ancient superstitious sand strewn men. We recognize, many of us, that most of the writings in the bible are non-rational claims of ancient people whose ignorance was truly not their fault. Those who wish to remain theist declare this as a metaphor or that as just a story. As we push forward it seems modern theists are turning much of early(ancient) religious absolutes into metaphors/stories so they can seem to remain rational. A few hundred years ago or in a modern day theoracy such heresy would(is) punishable by death. You nailed the shit on the head. It is personal faith that makes us accept this or that based upon self preservation. When critically examined one is forced to consider, "Why did I pick this as real and this not"; "There is no message from god telling me to do so" "Is their justification" and "What criteria did I compare it against when reaching this" - if sincere in this personal study/critical examination the reason is obvious. If not sincere well so be it.
Modern day thinking through critical examination has crushed most ancient thought to the point of no return - only 3(some say say 6) remain.. This is quite an accomplishment. It has been established almost to the point of absolute truth that those who still follow Mithra or Thoth with the same ferocious veracity as some do yhvh/Allah they do so at the risk of being labeled insane and locked away. Or at least being marginalized by intelligent people.
It would not be 'socially' acceptable for the commander of the USS Enterprise(Aircraft Carrier - see pic) to demand his crew bow their heads and pray to Poseidon, Thetis or Oceanus each day before setting sail. These gods are the self proclaimed rulers of the seas. Yet, if the same person called upon the crew to pray to the meek and mild Jesus, although JC never directly laid claim to the ocean this would land public empathy. See how those 3 gods have been destroyed? Or consider Zeus and a meteorologist.
-Yes, yes (jackasses) this is just a weak analogy. Intended to carry a point not be nit picked, I say this in anticipation of objection [:-]
If the agenda of christianity is to market itself down the throats of highschool students and they do not follow the class outlines(which demand no personal 'religious' interpretation allowed), this might just be their objective [:(], it is one of the most clean cut violations of church and state we have had in a bit. When that fight comes - 'they' are ready(Like god I will leave who "they" are a mystery). I will give them $100-200 though as should everyone.
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