RE: Is there a very fine line?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Is there a very fine line?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Is there a very fine line?

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Is there a very fine line? - 8/27/2009 7:54:04 AM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhodes85
pro domme = borderline exploiting people. some are actual dominants, some are not. I'll give the majority the benefit of the doubt

Do you know very many pro dommes? Most of the ones I knew in San Francisco were major contributors to the BDSM community. The stereotyped image of the "hooker with a whip" who isn't kinky but just catering to a client's fetishes does exist in real life, but it's rarer than you might think.

quote:

financial dommes = exploiting idiots to make money and nothing more. not dominant, only exploitive and likely a large number are sociopaths. I often wonder what they'll do when they are in their 40s/50s+ and their looks start to fade to the point where nobody will pay them for anything.

You're making statements of fact without evidence, which isn't a good idea. I am aware of a number of studies that explore the demographics of the BDSM community, and absolutely none of them suggest that there is a significant segment of our population - including the commercial end of it - that is diagnosable as sociopathic. That is a pretty serious diagnosis. Do you even know what a sociopath is?

You're also assuming that anyone who is into "financial domination" or willing to play in this field is otherwise unemployable. This certainly may be true in some cases. The field can attract some people because of its lack of necessary qualifications other than having bewbs and a vaj. The proliferation of ads on some adult sites that are poorly written to say the least can testify to this. However this is very far from being universal. There are some highly intelligent, well educated and articulate ladies who play this way.

quote:

personally if some 'pro domme' tried to tell me she was worth paying for her 'services' or a financial domme tried to tell me she was worth paying for her attention i'd look at her like she was nuts and probably laugh in her face. those people are usually pretty full of themselves.

Is a chiropracter, a massage therapist or a doctor worth paying for their services? Do you feel so angry and outraged at the fact that these professionals do charge for their time, energy, attention specialized skills and expensive equipment that you feel the need to sneer at them publicly? Do you take time to nastily denigrate other kinks that consenting adults engage in? If not, why? What's the difference? More to the point, what's got you so angry about the very existence of pros and their clients? No one is forcing you to buy something you do not want, or participate in a kink you do not share. So why do you have this need to be rude and contemptuous about the choices that other people make?

_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to Rhodes85)

Profile

Post #: 21

RE: Is there a very fine line? - 8/27/2009 12:23:33 PM

Esinn

Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhodes85

pro domme = borderline exploiting people. some are actual dominants, some are not. I'll give the majority the benefit of the doubt

financial dommes = exploiting idiots to make money and nothing more. not dominant, only exploitive and likely a large number are sociopaths. I often wonder what they'll do when they are in their 40s/50s+ and their looks start to fade to the point where nobody will pay them for anything. Will it take that long for their wakeup call that the world doesn't revolve around them?

it is simply supply and demand. you wouldn't have an industry for the service if people weren't willing to pay for it. i find it ironic that a woman's proactive efforts are being demeaned. it is merely entrepreneurship and no different than those that operate similar services. kind of interesting there's little flack about topless bars and such. but that's entertainment.

porcelaine

If we agree or disagree..... Sadly enough, every state I looked at, transactions of this nature are absolutely illegal. Food service and other industries are legal.

There have been quite a large number of Pro Dommes who are sitting jail in a wide variety of states or putting together fetish fund raisers to support their legal defense fund. I was looking at this last night and put together about 100 articles in about an hour. I did not think they are necessary to post... But, I will share.

Yes, yes, I know some Dominatrices do not violate the law. However, as you seen in my other post above laws are fairly detailed. To sell services which are not in violation of the law it makes them so worthless that an analogy of fighting a forest fire with a cup might be in order.

That said.... The services she offers are 'victimless'(use that word lightly) crimes and I do not believe it ought to be illegal. Outlawing private acts of 'sexuality' for 2 consenting adults in a contained area is silly. However, as of this post it is illegal. I speculate the vast majority of pro dommes violate the law. Those who do not must water down their services to such an absurd degree I can not see how it would be of any benefit or enjoyment for either. This would demonstrate the interest was in her purse with no interest in the needs of the sub/slave(offering such watered down services at astronomical prices). At least that is legal, it is consenting and the fool did pay(not me).

Edit:

These are the religious blue laws of attempting to make human sexuality somehow vile or bad.

< Message edited by Esinn -- 8/27/2009 12:28:10 PM >

_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to porcelaine)

Profile

Post #: 22

RE: Is there a very fine line? - 8/27/2009 12:26:07 PM

Esinn

Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhodes85
pro domme = borderline exploiting people. some are actual dominants, some are not. I'll give the majority the benefit of the doubt

Do you know very many pro dommes?

I know 6 What is your stab about my other more recent post in this thread?

Edit:
I would not disagree for a moment that there are many women in this niche who have more than tits. However, I have never read anything on it. Has there ever been any type of study or opinion from someone who might be considered 'respected' that would be of interest?

< Message edited by Esinn -- 8/27/2009 12:30:41 PM >

_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

Profile

Post #: 23

RE: Is there a very fine line? - 8/27/2009 6:29:03 PM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
I would not disagree for a moment that there are many women in this niche who have more than tits. However, I have never read anything on it. Has there ever been any type of study or opinion from someone who might be considered 'respected' that would be of interest?

That portion of my library is not with me in my current living situation, but I would best recommend the work of Charles Moser and William Henkin, as well as Brenda Love and Gini Graham Scott.

_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to Esinn)

Profile

Post #: 24

RE: Is there a very fine line? - 8/27/2009 8:06:36 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

If we agree or disagree..... Sadly enough, every state I looked at, transactions of this nature are absolutely illegal. Food service and other industries are legal.

what does one thing have to do with the other? the real thing you fail to realize as you posted your response is that you don't have to patronize their services. whether or not you agree with them is moot since you'd never be a paying client.

quote:

However, as you seen in my other post above laws are fairly detailed. To sell services which are not in violation of the law it makes them so worthless that an analogy of fighting a forest fire with a cup might be in order.

there's a lot of things i could get my knickers in a bunch about but this isn't one of them. in fact, i find that people are usually passionate about things that have meaning to them. so what's your connection to this?

quote:

I speculate the vast majority of pro dommes violate the law.

we all must make informed decisions. i find it most unlikely someone would invest the time, money, and energy in offering such services without being cognizant of the risks. which brings me back to the original question, how does this impact y.o.u.?

quote:

I can not see how it would be of any benefit or enjoyment for either. This would demonstrate the interest was in her purse with no interest in the needs of the sub/slave(offering such watered down services at astronomical prices). At least that is legal, it is consenting and the fool did pay(not me).

are you implying that those who elect to spend their money as they deem fit are foolish because their choices doesn't coincide with your ideas of what's morally acceptable? kind of like the pot calling the kettle... i'll let you fill in the rest.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Esinn)

Profile

Post #: 25

RE: Is there a very fine line? - 8/27/2009 8:29:14 PM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

However, as of this post it is illegal. I speculate the vast majority of pro dommes violate the law.

Ummm.... you DO realize that in many (most perhaps?) places, someone cannot legally consent to being physically assaulted/ battered, right? That being the case, I suspect the vast majority of Dom/mes violate the law, whether they are pro or not.

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 8/27/2009 8:31:39 PM >

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to Esinn)

Profile

Post #: 26

RE: Is there a very fine line? - 8/27/2009 9:29:11 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

in many (most perhaps?) places, someone cannot legally consent to being physically assaulted/ battered

Well, there goes hockey.

(in reply to WyldHrt)

Profile

Post #: 27

RE: Is there a very fine line? - 8/27/2009 10:41:56 PM

Rhodes85

Posts: 445
Joined: 11/15/2008
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Status: offline

'Do you know very many pro dommes? Most of the ones I knew in San Francisco were major contributors to the BDSM community. The stereotyped image of the "hooker with a whip" who isn't kinky but just catering to a client's fetishes does exist in real life, but it's rarer than you might think. '

Yes I know a couple of them in Truro and Halifax. I am in no way disputing their contributions to the BDSM or any other community. I did not refer to anyone as a 'hooker with a whip' although I might point out that the concept of the hooker with a whip as you put it, would technically be prostitution. Pro domination borders on it as it is. That being said, go to vegas, or even this website, and then tell me how rare it is.

'You're making statements of fact without evidence, which isn't a good idea. I am aware of a number of studies that explore the demographics of the BDSM community, and absolutely none of them suggest that there is a significant segment of our population - including the commercial end of it - that is diagnosable as sociopathic. That is a pretty serious diagnosis. Do you even know what a sociopath is? '

Yes actually I do know several sociopaths. One of my ex's, my aunt, one of my friends supposed best friend, my lead programmer. Among others. I could tell you stories about them that would make you turn white. Generally a sociopath is a person who is pathologically remorseless and sees people only in so far as how they can use them. They do not show remorse or compassion for their actions, are usually expert manipluators and have no problem exploiting people for their own gain. Many also show psycopathic traits. Incidently I was not referring to members of the bdsm community as sociopaths, I was referring to those that exploit it to get money under the guise of bdsm activities. ie: financial dommes as sociopathic.

I am not making statements without evidence. Before I even go any further here I would like to point out that there is a HUGE difference between a pro domme and a financial domme. I financial domme is it it for nothing more than money and use bdsm as a way to get it. Don't believe me? Look up a few domme profiles here. Things like 'I want to rape your wallet' and 'I want to use you as a cash cow' stand out in obvious contrast to the majority of pro domme accounts which, while they take money for their services, those services are actually bdsm, related, rather than getting some idiot to pay them to see her on cam for a few minutes.

'You're also assuming that anyone who is into "financial domination" or willing to play in this field is otherwise unemployable. This certainly may be true in some cases. The field can attract some people because of its lack of necessary qualifications other than having bewbs and a vaj.'

I said nothing of the sort. I said the financial dommes (not referring to pro dommes here) would have something of a rude wakeup call when they started to get to the point where few if any people would be willing to pay them because their looks or age fade. I say this because it IS just the money these people want. Seriously, how many people do you think would continue to pay them for nothing? Common sense says people would move on to younger people that still have their looks or whatever else said people are into. The 'i'm a princess, pay me and i'll laugh at you if you be my piggy bank' doesn't work with a 70 year old as well as it does with a 20 year old. That being said, you say that this is not limited to women being financial dommes.... Would you mind showing me a single male that does that and actually has women pay him to 'use her as a piggy bank'? Not to sound sexist here but I have yet to see such a person anywhere.

'Is a chiropracter, a massage therapist or a doctor worth paying for their services? Do you feel so angry and outraged at the fact that these professionals do charge for their time, energy, attention specialized skills and expensive equipment that you feel the need to sneer at them publicly? Do you take time to nastily denigrate other kinks that consenting adults engage in? If not, why? What's the difference? More to the point, what's got you so angry about the very existence of pros and their clients? No one is forcing you to buy something you do not want, or participate in a kink you do not share. So why do you have this need to be rude and contemptuous about the choices that other people make? '

First, a chiropractor or a massage therapist are actually providing a service. They do not take your money and then call you an idiot or whathave you and laugh at you, like a financial domme does. So that removes the reference to financial dommes here. As for pro dommes - read what I said again: ''if some 'pro domme' tried to tell me she was worth paying for her 'services' or a financial domme tried to tell me she was worth paying for her attention ' What I said was if she came up to me and said she was worth paying for her attention. I was not disparaging the bdsm lifestyle she has chosen. The 'i'm a princess and you aren't worth my time...but i'll put up with you if you pay me' attitude is what I have a problem with. That being said, I consider bdsm to be a lifestyle, and those that use it as a guise to make money - and I am speaking of financial dommes here, to be exploiting that lifestyle for their own gain. If they want to make money, get a real job instead of exploting people online as their 'piggy banks' Pro dommes on the other hand I don't have a problem with, so long as they don't get pushy about it with me or pull the 'princess' routine. Not that I am trying to imply that many pro dommes do that, but there are a few that do.

_____________________________

This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. Had this been an actual emergency you would all be dead by now. Have a nice day and remember: Friends don't let friends vote Republican.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Profile

Post #: 28