RE: Buddah?

RE: Buddah? (Full Version)

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Mishna -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 10:53:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle quote: ORIGINAL: Mishna If they choose to, that's their choice and their business. Why make it yours? Why not make it my business? Similarly I also have an opinion on buses, snails and the smoking ban. Good for you, but that doesn't really answer the question, does it?

Esinn -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 10:57:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you So much talk about God, and whether or not he exists. What about Buddah? What is Buddahs claim to fame? People want to deny God, as if he is the only one who matters? If he is the only one, then he must matter right? Always, Ant~ quote: I guess Supertramp said it best. "Said a boat without an anchor, and a ship without a sea. Said the devil is my Saviour and I don't pay no heed." Buddah is ok. I really do not know much about the fellow. I do know it is much different from a belief in allah/jesus/yhvh. He meditated a lot I know - that is cool. Possibly I ought to look into it. Within the circle of those who interact with Buddah what is their conclusion on the the 'creation' of this universe?

FullCircle -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 11:00:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig No, the Buddah taught that all existence is merely an illusion, it is not real, it has no actual existence. Therfore what you percieve as reality is in fact unreal, illusory, nonexistant. Since you are part of the reality you percieve, then you also are un real, illusory, nonexistant. It is when you can reconcile the fact that you are self-aware and capable of percieving things with the fact that you do not exist that you achieve Nirvana and are freed from the nonexistant birth-death cycle. It is that basic contradiction, that you are yet you aren't that makes Nirvana so hard to achieve. How do you reconcile these two utterly incompatible ideas. How many people in a dream get taken seriously? The other week I had this dream where I was a fire fighter but due to government cost cutting we also had to also fight crime. So we spent the whole day tailing drug dealers whilst wearing full uniform in a big red fire engine. That wouldn’t have happened in real life I would have said “Fight crime, you what???” I only mention this fact because even when I'm dreaming part of me knows it's isn't real but I often say 'hell let us see where this dream is going' mainly I do this for entertainment reasons. It occurs to me that a figure telling me in a dream that everything I am is part of a dream wouldn't be given much credibility. i.e. I am not real and him telling me I am not real was part of the experience of not being real.

pyroaquatic -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 11:07:16 AM)
There is more empty space in this universe than there is actual matter.

Arpig -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 11:24:28 AM)
quote: How many people in a dream get taken seriously? The other week I had this dream where I was a fire fighter but due to government cost cutting we also had to also fight crime. So we spent the whole day tailing drug dealers whilst wearing full uniform in a big red fire engine. That wouldn’t have happened in real life I would have said “Fight crime, you what???” I only mention this fact because even when I'm dreaming part of me knows it's isn't real but I often say 'hell let us see where this dream is going' mainly I do this for entertainment reasons. It occurs to me that a figure telling me in a dream that everything I am is part of a dream wouldn't be given much credibility. i.e. I am not real and him telling me I am not real was part of the experience of not being real. I guess that the idea could be likened to saying that "reality" is a dream, except that there is no other reality to awaken to. You "wake up" from the dream when you can accept that neither the dream nor the dreamer is real, both are equally illusory.

Musicmystery -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 11:58:27 AM)
quote: I guess that the idea could be likened to saying that "reality" is a dream Actually, there's quite convincing proof that life is a dream state: Boat Analogy

Marc2b -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 12:30:52 PM)
I am Buddah.

Kirata -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 12:38:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig once one truly understands the nonexistence of "reality" then one realises their own non-existence as well. and thus since nothing (including the self) actually exists, one is freed. Unh, if "nothing (including the self) actually exists," what is it precisely that is being "freed" by this realization? Just curious, yanno. K.

FullCircle -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 12:39:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mishna quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle quote: ORIGINAL: Mishna If they choose to, that's their choice and their business. Why make it yours? Why not make it my business? Similarly I also have an opinion on buses, snails and the smoking ban. Good for you, but that doesn't really answer the question, does it? What answer was you looking for? You ask why make it my business as if someone else practicing their Buddhism is never going to affect me? The fact that they've filled their brain with unproven superstition rather than other teachings with proven positive real world applications affects me. What was the last disease that Buddhism cured, what was the last dam that Buddhism built? I put it to you that Buddism is a purely selfish endeavour because from what I have heard so far here it concerns itself with only the person that practices it. It’s not my intension to police what goes on in that mind of theirs only to give a counter argument and allow them the possibility to realise it could be just nonsense.

Musicmystery -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 2:03:01 PM)
quote: I put it to you that Buddism is a purely selfish endeavour because from what I have heard so far here it concerns itself with only the person that practices it. Buddhism has two major philosophical branches. One does indeed focus on individual enlightenment; the other, more prevalent, is concerned with the enlightenment of all beings.

Mishna -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 2:04:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle quote: ORIGINAL: Mishna quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle quote: ORIGINAL: Mishna If they choose to, that's their choice and their business. Why make it yours? Why not make it my business? Similarly I also have an opinion on buses, snails and the smoking ban. Good for you, but that doesn't really answer the question, does it? What answer was you looking for? You ask why make it my business as if someone else practicing their Buddhism is never going to affect me? The fact that they've filled their brain with unproven superstition rather than other teachings with proven positive real world applications affects me. What was the last disease that Buddhism cured, what was the last dam that Buddhism built? I put it to you that Buddism is a purely selfish endeavour because from what I have heard so far here it concerns itself with only the person that practices it. It’s not my intension to police what goes on in that mind of theirs only to give a counter argument and allow them the possibility to realise it could be just nonsense. In contradiction to Buddhism being "a purely selfish endeavour" as you put it, Mahayana Buddhism and Vajrayana Buddhism, specifically, are concerned with the enlightenment of all beings. Research bodhisattvas and you can see this. Vajrayana is full of deities and people who have devoted not only this life, but all their future lives to achieving this. Whether you believe it or not, I can't speak to. Compassion and generosity are cornerstones of Buddhist practices and spirituality. As with anything, you can't say across the board that all people are the same, but I've personally lived in a Buddhist community and seen these things in actual use. If you ask these questions about diseases and dams with Buddhism, do you ask the same questions of all other religions?

kccuckoldmist -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 3:30:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie If you think thats a valid critique of Bhuddism, you ought to learn a bit more about it. Bhuddah/Bhuddism is more of a spiritual philosophy than a religion. It has manifested itself in a variety of cultures in different ways. Karma is a force, not an entity though. It doesn't decide. Bhuddism concerns itself with proper intentions, from which proper actions follow, which brings an end to suffering. Note to all. I am not qualified to teach this. The above is a simplification based on my limited understanding. There was so much to quote here both the positive and the ones questioning it. I just decided to quote a pretty nice summary and agree that no summary can do anything justice. As a Buddhist it does not make me the all knowing expert but I do want to throw in my views and opinions on some of the things that have been said. Buddhism often gets killed in translation as it often uses words and phrases that people take out of context. Buddhism is about self awareness and awareness of how things are which can often be clouded by how we wish things were, want them to be and pursue in a fruitless manner. Buddhism is not a religion in terms of here is an instruction manual and follow it you will be enlightened and end up in nirvana. Buddhism can be someone’s only faith or they can study it along with their own personal religion. Buddhism is far from selfish. It is just the opposite as to be enlightened is to actually understand other people and things and accept them for who and what they are and not for how they make us feel or want them to be. Buddhism encourages helping others. In fact there is an ever ongoing debate that the Buddhist monks who shelter themselves from society as their own path to become enlightened might in fact be on the wrong path as the farther away from society they remove themselves the harder it is to learn about life. Buddhists are passive but certainly never pretend they are perfect or somehow are destroyed if they have to step out of what they try to live. Enlightenment is part understanding how things work in life. So for example in Bora Bora in 2007 the Buddhist monks organized and demonstrated against the military government there that has caused horrific conditions for most of its citizens. Over 200 were killed. But the monks were drawn to this action because they felt it was the only way to help the people. There are different beliefs/paths in Buddhism like most religions. For some Buddha was the only one like a Jesus figure and for others there have been many Buddha’s and are like honored spiritual advisors that have reach a high level of self enlightenment. Karma is not some force but just a thought of how to live a life works in a sense. In other words help out your neighbors will be good karma and often your neighbors will then neighbors are more then likely to be kind to you and help you out when in need. It is not some cosmic scoring system that provides rewards or justice. Suffering concept which is often the most mangled translation. Buddhism means when you read or hear people say life is suffering is to mean that you cannot avoid bad things in life and often that pursuit of avoiding bad things or seeking out pleasure clouds one view of things and therefore one’s path to enlightenment. It does not mean one should not have pleasure in one’s life at all but just know it cannot last or cover up other things life throws at us. Meditation, dreams and anything else you want to throw in about reality or accepting life is not as one sees it is not meant to blindly preach what you see and feel is not real but to use these things for perspective and tools to open ones mind to see things in a different way that may or may not change your views and understanding. We as humans often feed our thoughts by our feelings and desires and this can cloud truths. To slow down and intentionally examine things and not be wrapped up to where we cloud our paths. For example, wanting a really expensive car we may get so hung up in this desire that we start justifying why we should buy it even if we cannot really afford it. Buddhism would help one focus on questioning why you want or need it and strip away the emotion of the moment. Does not mean it would point out you should buy the cheap car at all but point out maybe an irrational thought like you want to impress strangers with what you drive and through these tools you might realize strangers really do not care one way or the other.

GotSteel -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 4:04:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you So much talk about God, and whether or not he exists. What about Buddah? What is Buddahs claim to fame? People want to deny God, as if he is the only one who matters? If he is the only one, then he must matter right? Always, Ant~ When a large, organized, dedicated and well funded group of Buddhists tries to undermine the separation of church and state in my country and make it a buddhist nation, I'll spend more time talking about Buddhism.

Musicmystery -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 4:19:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you So much talk about God, and whether or not he exists. What about Buddah? What is Buddahs claim to fame? People want to deny God, as if he is the only one who matters? If he is the only one, then he must matter right? Always, Ant~ When a large, organized, dedicated and well funded group of Buddhists tries to undermine the separation of church and state in my country and make it a buddhist nation, I'll spend more time talking about Buddhism. [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

Mishna -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 5:38:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel When a large, organized, dedicated and well funded group of Buddhists tries to undermine the separation of church and state in my country and make it a buddhist nation, I'll spend more time talking about Buddhism. Excellent point.

Arpig -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 8:13:31 PM)
quote: Unh, if "nothing (including the self) actually exists," what is it precisely that is being "freed" by this realization? Just curious, yanno. I don't really know, I am just giving my interpretation of the central thesis of the Buddah's teaching as I understand it. I guess that when Nirvana is achieved and the realization made,then one ceases to be at all aware, one ceases to have any form of existence and is freed from the illusion of existence and just isn't anymore. It doesn't really make any sense,but then again neither does the idea of three gods being one God being three gods....etc. It is this seeming impossibility that is the hurdle to achieving enlightenment, once you can overcome it you cease to be self aware, you cease to perceive the illusory world we call reality, you simply cease period. At least that's how I understand it. (or rather how I don't really understand it[;)])

MichiganHeadmast -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 8:35:18 PM)
The main thing I have in common with Buddha is my belly. [:D]

Brain -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 8:58:48 PM)
1 -- History of the Universe Made Easy (Part 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg1fs6vp9Ok&feature=related quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you So much talk about God, and whether or not he exists. What about Buddah? What is Buddahs claim to fame? People want to deny God, as if he is the only one who matters? If he is the only one, then he must matter right? Always, Ant~ quote: I guess Supertramp said it best. "Said a boat without an anchor, and a ship without a sea. Said the devil is my Saviour and I don't pay no heed."

stella41b -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 10:23:38 PM)
Again maybe I can add a few thoughts to perhaps clear up misconceptions.. There is nothing which is permanent - everything changes, and changes constantly. A tree grows, we age, the world turns but every minute finds itself in a completely new place in the Universe, which is also expanding and changing. There is truth and reality, but it is influenced by our perceptions. What we may perceive to be the truth may be the truth, or it may be our illusions. Perceptions may lead to different truths, or they may illusions. We can see ourselves as a single entity, as complete as the world itself or indeed the Universe just as much as we can see ourselves as a component of a greater whole, a part, an element, no more influential to this world or the Universe than a single grain of sand. I can give another analogy here - life and living is like smoking a cigarette. There is a craving, you reach for a cigarette and light it up, inhale the smoke, and the nicotine goes through your lungs into your bloodstream and to your brain and gradually the craving is satiated, the cigarette is no more and the butt is discarded. We crave life through our souls and reincarnate into bodies and through living we satiate that need to live until we reach that point when our bodies are used we age and living becomes too much and we die. However looking at it from a slightly different perspective it is healthier not to smoke and this explains the Buddhist concept of non-attachment. The cigarette calms your nerves, makes you feel more alert, but it also introduces harmful substances to your lungs and causes diseases. Similarly in becoming a smoker you become attached to the cigarettes and you suffer when you don't have a cigarette from cravings for a cigarette. And so it is with material and physical desires. Yes they provide happiness, pleasure and fulfilment but these are temporary and fleeting and they also cause suffering as does attachment to such desires which also causes unhappiness and misery. Your neighbour has a house and car. You have a house but no car. You want to be like your neighbour and have a car, and you are unhappy because you do not have a car and thus have formed an attachment to a desire for a car and are blind to the happiness you may experience through accepting that you do not have a car and not becoming attached to an illusory or imagined car. However if you accept that you do not have a car and can find happiness in the fact that you can walk then you are practising non-attachment and eliminating both the craving and the suffering. By cultivating non-attachment you learn to not give into such desires but learn self-control, greater awareness and it is from this increased awareness, or spiritual awareness and seeking to follow the middle path through life that you can eventually work towards attaining nirvana, or Enlightenment. Should you therefore seek to abandon all physical and material desires? No, because suffering and disease is an essential part of life and you must endure such suffering because you are on the wheel of life and death and are constantly being reincarnated. As you are born you are also made of flesh and blood and live in this world and so should take proper care of your body and health as you do of your soul. Hence the necessity to follow the middle path, to cultivate non-attachment and through this greater awareness, wisdom, knowledge, to reject falsehood and illusion, and to cultivate kindness and compassion for all living beings. Through this you release yourself from the endless cycle of reincarnation of death and rebirth as you attain enlightenment. This is as best as I can explain it.

rightwinghippie -> RE: Buddah? (8/27/2009 11:50:15 PM)
Well put Stella

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