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Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/29/2009 4:57:12 PM   
Andalusite


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So, the tribute thread has got me a bit curious, and I *do* have a brand new female submissive playpartner. Do you usually offer to pay, or ask the other person to go dutch? If they expect you to pay the first couple of dates, or at least don't offer to, how do you react? Do you usually bring a little gift (not jewelry or anything expensive, more like flowers, a bottle of wine, a poem, something like that)? What kinds of places do you prefer/avoid? What were your favourite and worst "first dates?"

Generally, when I go out with a guy, I want him to pay, since it seems gentlemanly. Since my new playpartner is a woman, I'm not quite sure what my expectations of myself are in that respect - I'll probably offer, and it would be fun to talk with her and figure out a couple of little things that she'd like. It's not a sexual or romantic relationship, but I definitely want to develop a close friendship and comfort level, which we already have a good start toward, since we've know each other about 4 months now.

They didn't develop into anything more, but the "first dates" I felt were the most creative when I was searching a few months ago was going indoor rock climbing, and getting some help with a volunteer task I was doing for a local organization, both with gentlemen I met here. In the first, I took a class on belaying, then we took turns supporting each other and climbing. In the other, he helped me schlep stuff around for a half hour or so, met a few of my friends, and then we hung out and talked for a couple of hours.

My worst was when I was looking about 4 years ago, before I met my previous boyfriend/Dominant. He was a submissive, and asked me out salsa dancing. I'd done other kinds of partner dancing before, but not salsa, and let him know that before we met. He got really frustrated with me when I didn't pick it up right away. He asked one of the other ladies to give me some pointers on the 2nd or 3rd dance, and we tried for a couple more, as he got clearly more annoyed. *sighs* He made his excuses and took off, without even offering to walk me to my car. I decided that darn it, I was going to have fun anyway! I stayed and danced with a bunch of the other people there, had fun, and nobody else seemed at all phased by my being a beginner. When I was looking a few months ago, it was a little awkward when one submissive/bottom guy took me out to a fancy restaurant, then asked "How do you usually handle the bill?" I told him that most of the other men who had asked me out had offered to pay, but that I had enough to cover it, and asked how much it was. He kind of backtracked and said that no, he would get it, but seemed annoyed with me over it. We'd really been having fun up to that point, and I guess we both handled it a little less than gracefully. *sighs*

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 8/29/2009 5:28:00 PM >
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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/29/2009 5:17:25 PM   
MsStarlett


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Status: offline 		Isn't it odd how first dates can be great or a nightmare?  Same with the vanilla world.  It either works or it doesn't.  No blame attached.

In m/f relationship situations, the man should always pay the first time.  But it's ok to pick a less expensive place if you're worried about such things.  Westie and I used to take turns about paying for meals because he was the one who had to pay for all the traveling expenses to come see me, I felt better playing 'host' once he arrived. 

With my new one, I let him pay, but deliberately selected places that won't break the bank for anyone.  First date was Logan's Roadhouse for the 2 dinners for $14 special... Although I'm still waiting for him to 'invite' me to my favorite diner down town with the luciouse Chocolate cake. 

With same sex partners, I don't have a clue.  I'll happily ask my neice what proper lesbian protocol is. 


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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/29/2009 5:31:52 PM   
Andalusite


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Status: offline 		Ooh, maybe go there just for dessert after going somewhere less expensive for dinner, if that's an issue? I'm fine with going to free places or cheap outings - a walk on the beach, visiting a museum on a day when it's free, coffee (or equivalent beverage), etc. are all good! Like you, I'd prefer a male date take me somewhere cheap and go ahead and treat than go dutch - it feels more like an outing with friends or a business dinner otherwise! I'm not sure if lesbian dating tips will completely transfer over, since she's more of a casual playpartner/friend, rather than my girlfriend, but I still want to spoil her a bit if I can.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 8/29/2009 5:32:06 PM >

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/29/2009 5:33:46 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		We'd really been having fun up to that point, and I guess we both handled it a little less than gracefully. *sighs*
 
I think he started it by asking how you usually 'deal with bills'.  I guess whatever makes payment least an issue is generally how I *like* to handle it.  For me, that usually means I'll cough up unless I get a severe 'oh no, pal, I'm not paying you back in kind later' vibe from her.  I've never had a 'you're my toy, so I'll pay' vibe, but I'm mentally prepared for that now, just in case.  But like Ms S - I haven't a clue about how it's done between same-sex partners. 



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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/29/2009 5:42:01 PM   
Andalusite


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Status: offline 		Yeah, but if I hadn't been surprised (or had realised what he was getting at in time), I probably could have offered to go ahead and pay half without making a big deal of it. I don't consider it to be a dealbreaker to go dutch, or to be the one to treat (which I do sometimes now with my Master), but him acting upset/annoyed about it got me all flustered.

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/29/2009 6:21:16 PM   
AAkasha


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I think the safest protocol is that the person who is courting is the person who pays. The person who "asks out" the other person is the one picking up the tab.  Aside from that, I think it shows tremendous class and chivalry for a man to be prepared to pay and offer to pay in any circumstance, or to follow up a woman's insistence on paying with, "Please allow me to get it next time."

In 90% or more of my 'dating' experience I was the pursuer and I liked to pick the restaurant, do the driving, and pick up the tab. I also tended to date guys that were a little younger and I was more established in my career so I got a kick out of paying for it.  (and I was in a better financial position to do so).

I think that a man who is interested should show clearly that he has the capacity to be generous.  It's not about the amount of "coin" he is willing to spend, but the amount of time, attention to detail and interest he has in making her know she's desired and pursued.  Small gifts mean a lot, especially if they are personal in nature and took some thought.

Akasha

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/29/2009 6:27:09 PM   
SweetDommes


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Status: offline 		We typically go the route of who can afford it. Since it's not a one-on-one thing for us, we usually pay for at least part of the bill.

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/29/2009 6:37:55 PM   
playfulotter


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Status: offline 		I just let the man pick and the man I am seeing and in a relationship once again,  always picks mid to high end places...but we go to chain places too but we mostly love to cook for each other..anyway......it is all good for me..it is the time spent together that matters......for me when meeting new men it would mean how is their personality and chemistry between us....and that is so hard to define without meeting someone first....I am not looking now but in the past if someone was too far from where I live I would get a bit squirrelly...as i don't want to get lost!

< Message edited by playfulotter -- 8/29/2009 6:38:35 PM >

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/29/2009 7:10:46 PM   
Venatrix


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Status: offline 		Well, it depends largely on the nature of the relationship.  If we're starting out as friends, then I offer to chip in my share.  As I've said on the other thread, the "let me whip out my calculator and find out exactly how much you owe" approach drives me bonkers, so I'd rather reciprocate:  you get this one, I'll get the next one, or have you over for dinner.  Something like that. 

If he's doing the pursuing (and they usually are; I don't have the time to do much pursuing), I expect him to pay, but I'll still offer to take them out another time or have them over for a meal.  In all honesty, if it's someone I'm interested in as a partner, I don't tend to offer to reciprocate really early on.  I like to see how they handle it.  If they start saying, "I got this, why don't you get that," I know they're the sort of person who will keep tabs on every penny spent, and will most likely also be too miserly of spirit for us to be a good match.  And the sooner they take this approach, the sooner I know things are hopeless.

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/30/2009 1:19:18 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Yeah, but if I hadn't been surprised (or had realised what he was getting at in time), I probably could have offered to go ahead and pay half without making a big deal of it. I don't consider it to be a dealbreaker to go dutch, or to be the one to treat (which I do sometimes now with my Master), but him acting upset/annoyed about it got me all flustered.


I think if I were a woman in that position I might have smiled very sweetly and said, "Oh, however you want to deal with the bill is fine by me!" - thereby whacking the ball right back into his court.  He might not have been upset/annoyed at you so much as at himself, having realised he'd unintentionally made things awkward.  I've noticed that partners have often misinterpreted my annoyance with myself as annoyance with them.  Just a thought.

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/30/2009 1:25:16 AM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		I think the safest protocol is that the person who is courting is the person who pays. The person who "asks out" the other person is the one picking up the tab.  Aside from that, I think it shows tremendous class and chivalry for a man to be prepared to pay and offer to pay in any circumstance, or to follow up a woman's insistence on paying with, "Please allow me to get it next time."
 
I'd feel quite awkward if she didn't accept that offer.  If she refused to, she'd have to demonstrate that she was seriously well-off or that it was important to her for some other reason.



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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/30/2009 7:39:56 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Weirdly enough I haven't formally dated since I was a teen. Usually it's less a case of dating and more a case of, casually spending time together.

If someone travels to spend time with me, and I am comfortable inviting them to my home, I cook for them. Otherwise I take them to some of my favourite places, something I feel they will like and be comfortable with. What that is, can be dramatically different from person to person. I know that a submissive personality is probably nervous as hell. I want to make them as calm and comfortable as possible. If I know that she grew up poor, is shy and uneducated, has very little money, and exposure to swanky places and events, I am not going to take her to Cafe doDici and expect her to pay.

It all depends upon what I already know about them and what I think will help put them at ease.

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/30/2009 2:00:40 PM   
Andalusite


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Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		That makes sense, LaT!
Venatrix, I had that impression from the guys who use that phrase/approach, too, though I prefer it to the ones who want to go Dutch and calculate the bill out. A lot of it's playing by ear, figuring each other out, and that's just one element of compatibility.
Playfulotter, I didn't want to date someone who was more than about an hour away - just too far to be able to see each other regularly! I can understand worrying about getting lost or hung up in traffic!

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/30/2009 3:34:58 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I think I said this somewhere on another thread, but I'm in the same position as Karen and Holly (SweetDommes).  It would be a very rare occurrence that it would be a one on one situation for Me to meet up with someone the first time around.  It's more likely that it would be MP and I together to meet someone at lunch or whatever, so it only makes sense to Me to pick up the check. 

Even in the rare one on one scenario, I'm going to offer to pick up the check.  I see it more from the position that I am the Dominant in the situation, rather than I'm the woman on a date.  Truthfully, I don't even use that terminology.  If I have an interest in a new play partner, that's My primary focus.  Sure, there's going to be some talking over lunch of that person's vanilla life, but My purpose there is about BDSM.  It's not for movies or rock climbing or alternate activities.  If I was single, I might see it differently, but the entire reason that MP and I became poly was specifically to have bottoms and submissives as a part of My life.  If that's why I'm getting to know someone, I don't want there to be any confusion.


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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/30/2009 4:51:06 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		If I ask the other person out...I pay, if the other person asks me out...they pay. Pretty simple really.

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/30/2009 5:00:33 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		When I used to date, if I asked them out..which was rare..I would pay. If they asked me out he always paid.

If we were meeting for coffee and I couldn't even get through the first cup without wanting to dash for the door, I would pay for my coffee, down it as fast as I could, stand up, tell him it was nice meeting him but we weren't compatible and I would leave..as fast as I could.


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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/30/2009 6:18:28 PM   
islandgyrl


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Status: offline 		The person who does the inviting pays. It doesn't matter if you're meeting a male or female. It's just common sense and good manners. If your budget is tight you may want to communicate that before making plans. My friends and I get together at home to cook when money is tight.
 
Island

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/30/2009 6:26:06 PM   
Venatrix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite


Venatrix, I had that impression from the guys who use that phrase/approach, too, though I prefer it to the ones who want to go Dutch and calculate the bill out. A lot of it's playing by ear, figuring each other out, and that's just one element of compatibility.



I agree.  The second option is preferable to the first one I cited.  I think the reason I don't like the second one much either is the guy is controlling me by telling me what I ought to pay for, which, for obvious reasons, I don't much like.  The other thing is that it also removes from me the choice of what it is I want to be generous with.  I might feel more gratified by buying the wine, than if he directs me to buy, say, toilet paper, however much we might need the latter.  (Yes, yes, I know.  You can't wipe your bum with a wine bottle.)

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RE: Courting - the first couple of dates - 8/30/2009 8:17:45 PM   
MissBeautiful2U


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Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline 		Fair or not fair, if a guy asks me out I will expect him to pay the first 2-3 times.  I will reciprocate by bringing him things that I know he likes around date 3... might be a food, a wine, a t-shirt that reminded me of him.  Yes I will actually go out looking for something like that but of course I won't make that part obvious, just say this made me think of you.  After I've been dating someone for awhile, it depends on the financial situation.  I've dated guys who were much better off than myself and also some that were much worse off.  Those that can afford it, I have let pay the majority of the time with only occasionally snagging the check.  At the same time, I will bring home carry out or attempt to cook. If I'm involved with someone who makes less, I will tend to grab the check much more often and suggest things like bbqs where I bring over the meat and whatever and suggest he pick up something like dessert or pop.

For me it is a matter of comfort... and does vary.

The one time I had a relationship with a girl, I think we did the I'll get it this time number where we both made the move for the check when we went out.  That relationship was a little different as we were more friends with benefits than actual girlfriends.  (One of those situations lol).  Still we went and did things together....

What I think is awkward is when someone asks me out then looks at me or hands me the check.  I always bring enough to cover, but I won't go out on a second date with someone where that has happened.... and yet if I know the guy doesn't have much, I might actually grab the check on the first date and not feel any resentment about it at all.

Does that make sense?  I want it to be *my* decision whether or not to treat.  And yeah yeah I get that a guy could be saying the same thing, but I am looking for someone who can be generous within their means.  I tend to be freer with my money than perhaps I should be and need someone with a similar mindset.

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