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tazzygirl -> RNC and Health Care (8/30/2009 12:49:14 PM)

Health Care Bill of Rights for Seniors
Written on August 24, 2009 by Republican National Committee

quote:

America’s senior citizens deserve access to quality health care and coverage that will not bankrupt them. Republicans believe that reforms to America’s health care system are necessary, but that reform should first do no harm, especially to our seniors.

That’s why Republicans are calling for a Seniors’ Health Care Bill Of Rights that will:


•PROTECT MEDICARE AND NOT CUT IT IN THE NAME OF HEALTH CARE REFORM: President Obama and Congressional Democrats are promoting a government-run health care experiment that will cut over $500 billion from Medicare to be used to pay for their plan. Medicare should not be raided to pay for another entitlement.
•PROHIBIT GOVERNMENT FROM GETTING BETWEEN SENIORS AND THEIR DOCTORS: The Democrats’ government-run health care experiment will give patients less power to control their own medical decisions, and create government boards that would decide what treatments would or wouldn’t be funded. Republicans believe in patient-centered reforms that put the priorities of seniors before government.

•PROHIBIT EFFORTS TO RATION HEALTH CARE BASED ON AGE: The Democrats’ government-run health care experiment would set up a “comparative effectiveness research commission” where health care treatment decisions could be limited based on a patient’s age. Republicans believe that health care decisions are best left up to seniors and their doctors.
•PREVENT GOVERNMENT FROM INTERFERING WITH END-OF-LIFE CARE DISCUSSIONS: The Democrats’ government-run health care experiment would have seniors meet with a doctor to discuss end-of-life care that could mean limiting treatment. Republicans believe that government should not interfere with end-of-life care discussions between a patient and a doctor.
•ENSURE SENIORS CAN KEEP THEIR CURRENT COVERAGE: As Democrats continue to propose steep cuts to Medicare in order to pay for their government-run health care experiment, these cuts threaten millions of seniors with being forced from their current Medicare Advantage plans. Republicans believe that seniors should not be targeted by a government-run health care bill and forced out of their current Medicare coverage.
•PROTECT VETERANS BY PRESERVING TRICARE AND OTHER BENEFIT PROGRAMS FOR MILITARY FAMILIES: Democrats recently proposed raising veterans’ costs for the Tricare For Life program that many veterans rely on for treatment. Republicans oppose increasing the burden on our veterans and believe America should honor our promises to them.


http://barackobamaexperiment.com/posts/1502

In all honesty, when will the lies end?




Arpig -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/30/2009 2:11:13 PM)

When people stop believing them....in other words: never.




servantforuse -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/30/2009 3:25:21 PM)

If the democrats want to stop the so called lies, they should prove page by page that these items are not in the current bill. Why are they not doing so ? Maybe they are in the bill. Maybe they are not lies. 




tazzygirl -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/30/2009 3:30:59 PM)

Shall we?

I think i shall...

RNC’s “Bill of Rights”
Republicans' rundown is a mix of false, true and misleading claims.
August 26, 2009

Summary
The Republican National Committee this week posted a “Health Care Bill of Rights for Seniors,” which RNC Chairman Michael Steele and others have taken to the airwaves to publicize. It contains a number of claims we’ve seen and criticized before, but also contains one new one that has some truth to it, and another fresh one that has very little.

■The RNC says that cuts proposed by Democrats "threaten millions of seniors with being forced from their current Medicare Advantage plans." That’s certainly possible. Ratcheting down payments to the private insurance plans in Medicare Advantage would likely cause them to reduce benefits or even withdraw from the market. That might force an unknown number of beneficiaries to find new plans or go back to the traditional system, which still covers 78 percent of the Medicare population.
■Another new wrinkle in the RNC’s "Bill of Rights" is a claim that Democrats have proposed raising TRICARE insurance costs for retired military and their families. This one is false. It was actually the Bush administration that most recently proposed changes in TRICARE, which the hospital industry said would cost hospitals $458 million in its first year.
The RNC "Bill of Rights" document also recycles claims that Democrats are proposing $500 million in Medicare cuts without mentioning that much of that is offset by proposed Medicare increases. It falsely says that a comparative effectiveness research panel set up earlier this year could limit care based on a patient’s age, when in fact the law expressly prohibits the council from issuing such mandates. And the RNC implies, wrongly, that seniors who meet with their doctors to discuss end-of-life care could have their treatment cut off involuntarily. In fact, these discussions would be voluntary and any directives limiting treatment would have to come from the patient.

Analysis
At this particular point in the health care debate, we’re finding that there’s not much new under the sun when it comes to false claims being made about the overhaul proposals. But just in case pretty new packaging threatens to rope unwary citizens into believing some of these misrepresentations, we stand at the ready, and it is in that spirit that we tackle the Republican National Committee’s new "Health Care Bill of Rights for Seniors." RNC Chairman Michael Steele and others in his party have been touting the document all week; Steele penned an op-ed that ran in The Washington Post, and did interviews on National Public Radio, ABC’s Good Morning America, and Fox News Channel, among other outlets. Here’s what he said in the Post:

Steele, Washington Post, Aug. 24: The Democrats’ plan will hurt American families, small businesses and health-care providers by raising care costs, increasing the deficit, and not allowing patients to keep a doctor or insurance plan of their choice. Furthermore, under the Democrats’ plan, senior citizens will pay a steeper price and will have their treatment options reduced or rationed.

Republicans want reform that should, first, do no harm, especially to our seniors. That is why Republicans support a Seniors’ Health Care Bill of Rights, which we are introducing today, to ensure that our greatest generation will receive access to quality health care.

We’ll take the particulars of the "Health Care Bill of Rights" in the order they are presented.

Raiding Medicare?

RNC: PROTECT MEDICARE AND NOT CUT IT IN THE NAME OF HEALTH CARE REFORM: President Obama and Congressional Democrats are promoting a government-run health care experiment that will cut over $500 billion from Medicare to be used to pay for their plan. Medicare should not be raided to pay for another entitlement.

FactCheck.org: As we noted in our article More ‘Senior Scare,’ the bill that’s currently pending in the House would indeed "cut" $500 billion or so from Medicare, but it would also increase expenditures in some areas. The net amount that would be taken from the program would be about $219 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That’s a 10-year figure, by the way. And any implication that seniors’ Medicare benefits would be cut is false. Rather, the bill calls for holding down payments to hospitals and other providers, other than physicians.

As we’ve noted before, Republicans are accusing Democrats of pretty much the same thing that Obama wrongly accused John McCain of doing last year, when the GOP nominee proposed to pay for part of his own health care measure with "savings" in Medicare. We called it a false scare tactic when Obama’s TV ads said benefit levels would be reduced. The RNC document doesn’t go quite that far, but fails to make clear that what Democrats are proposing isn’t a cut in benefits.

Government Boards and Rationing by Age?


RNC: PROHIBIT GOVERNMENT FROM GETTING BETWEEN SENIORS AND THEIR DOCTORS: The Democrats’ government-run health care experiment will give patients less power to control their own medical decisions, and create government boards that would decide what treatments would or wouldn’t be funded. Republicans believe in patient-centered reforms that put the priorities of seniors before government.

PROHIBIT EFFORTS TO RATION HEALTH CARE BASED ON AGE: The Democrats’ government-run health care experiment would set up a "comparative effectiveness research commission" where health care treatment decisions could be limited based on a patient’s age. Republicans believe that health care decisions are best left up to seniors and their doctors

FactCheck.org: Both of these claims have their root in fundamental miscastings of the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research, a body created by the economic stimulus bill signed into law in February. The council isn’t an "effort to ration health care based on age," nor would it get "between seniors and their doctors." As we’ve explained repeatedly, the council was created to monitor government research on the efficacy and cost-effectiveness of various treatments, and to help get the findings out to practitioners. But the stimulus legislation even specifies that no dictates would come from this body regarding coverage of or reimbursement for any treatments: "Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the Council to mandate coverage, reimbursement, or other policies for any public or private payer. … None of the reports submitted under this section or recommendations made by the Council shall be construed as mandates or clinical guidelines for payment, coverage, or treatment." And just in case that wasn’t clear enough, the House Energy and Commerce Committee adopted an amendment to the House health care bill expressly prohibiting the comparative effectiveness research from being used to "deny or ration" care.

According to the RNC, the first claim also refers to something called the Independent Medicare Advisory Council, which the administration wants to create and imbue with the power to make an annual package of changes in what Medicare pays doctors. The President could only block them by rejectiing the entire package, and Congress could only do so by means of a congressional resolution. The idea is to take politics out of these decisions, which could indeed ease the way for unpopular cost-cutting measures and possibly for reductions in some future benefit levels. But IMAC is not a part of the pending bills.

Operative Word: Optional

RNC: PREVENT GOVERNMENT FROM INTERFERING WITH END-OF-LIFE CARE DISCUSSIONS: The Democrats’ government-run health care experiment would have seniors meet with a doctor to discuss end-of-life care that could mean limiting treatment. Republicans believe that government should not interfere with end-of-life care discussions between a patient and a doctor.

FactCheck.org: This is a somewhat milder version of the claim that was going around in a chain email that the Democrats wanted to require seniors to undergo counseling every five years on how to end their lives sooner. Former New York Lieutenant Gov. Betsy McCaughey furthered the myth, and in former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin’s interpretation it took the form of so-called "death panels" that would decide whether elderly Americans are "worthy of care." We dealt with that in our piece False Euthanasia Claims as well as in Palin vs. Obama: Death Panels. It’s simply not true. What the bill would do is allow seniors to have counseling sessions on end-of-life care issues with their doctors, which Medicare would pay for once every five years. The sessions would be voluntary, and the discussions would only involve "limiting treatment" if that’s the sort of directive that a senior wanted to give, say, in a living will.

Medicare’s Private Plans

RNC: ENSURE SENIORS CAN KEEP THEIR CURRENT COVERAGE: As Democrats continue to propose steep cuts to Medicare in order to pay for their government-run health care experiment, these cuts threaten millions of seniors with being forced from their current Medicare Advantage plans. Republicans believe that seniors should not be targeted by a government-run health care bill and forced out of their current Medicare coverage.

FactCheck.org: The vast majority of Medicare recipients would see little change in their interactions with the health care system under the bills currently pending. But it’s probable that some unknown number of the 22 percent of seniors, or more than 10 million individuals, who participate in Medicare Advantage programs would indeed need to pay more out of pocket, change plans, or face reduced benefits – though never less than participants in traditional Medicare receive.

A little background: Medicare recipients since the 1970’s have been able to choose to receive their benefits through private health plans, rather than through the traditional, government-run, fee-for-service form of Medicare. Medicare Advantage is the most recent incarnation of this alternative. Republicans have generally favored these private options more than Democrats, and in 2003 the GOP Congress and president increased the amount Medicare paid to the plans to handle Medicare beneficiaries.

At this point, government payments to Medicare Advantage plans are 114 percent higher per enrollee, on average, than the cost of traditional fee-for-service in a given geographical area, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. What do the plans do with the additional money? Often they use at least some of it to reduce premiums or cost-sharing for recipients. In some cases, though not all, seniors have been able to save money by signing up for a Medicare Advantage program.

But according to the Medicare Payment Advisory Committee, which is an an independent congressional agency, the additional spending for Medicare Advantage programs – which adds up to billions each year – is hastening the depletion of the Medicare trust fund. It has also meant higher premiums for all Medicare beneficiaries, according to the Government Accountability Office, another nonpartisan arm of Congress. As GAO put it, "beneficiaries covered under Medicare FFS
are subsidizing the additional benefits and lower costs that MA beneficiaries receive."

Long recognized as a possible source of savings – and mentioned as such by Obama during the presidential campaign – payments to Medicare Advantage programs under the House bill would be reduced over several years until they are equal to the costs of traditional Medicare. (Medicare payments are calculated by county). The measure would reduce the growth of future Medicare spending by $156 billion over 10 years. The result, based on prior experience with tinkering with the payment formulas, could be that some plans decide to withdraw from the Advantage program, said Brian Biles of George Washington University’s Department of Health Policy in a telephone interview, leaving them to choose from surviving Medicare Advantage plans or return to the traditional Medicare fee for service program that currently covers the other 78 percent of beneficiaries.

Riling the Vets, Too

RNC: PROTECT VETERANS BY PRESERVING TRICARE AND OTHER BENEFIT PROGRAMS FOR MILITARY FAMILIES: Democrats recently proposed raising veterans’ costs for the Tricare For Life program that many veterans rely on for treatment. Republicans oppose increasing the burden on our veterans and believe America should honor our promises to them.

FactCheck.org: The RNC tells us this refers to a budget proposal floated last spring by the Obama administration that would have allowed the Department of Veterans Affairs to bill vets’ private insurance companies for the cost of treating combat-related injuries. But as we noted earlier this year, the idea was quickly dropped and never made it into the president’s budget, due in part to protests from veterans. But more to the point, it had nothing to do with TRICARE, which is the Department of Defense health program covering active duty and retired military members and their families, or TRICARE for Life, which is for military retirees or family members who are 65 or over or otherwise eligible for Medicare.

In attempting to back up this claim, the RNC also cites a series of budget-cutting options issued by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office last January. The ideas included raising out-of-pocket costs and other fees for veterans in TRICARE. But that was just one of 115 ideas for cutting costs or otherwise changing federal health care programs, and CBO made clear that "the report makes no recommendations." The TRICARE isea does not appear in the pending health care overhaul bills.

And in fact, one of the news articles the RNC cites in support of this claim mentions that it was the Bush administration that most recently proposed TRICARE cuts, which were protested by many hospitals. The news item speculated that "Obama also might follow the lead of his predecessor" and seek higher TRICARE fees, but so far Obama has not done so.

–by Viveca Novak

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/rncs-bill-of-rights/




philosophy -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/30/2009 3:32:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If the democrats want to stop the so called lies, they should prove page by page that these items are not in the current bill. Why are they not doing so ? Maybe they are in the bill. Maybe they are not lies. 


Maybe all those who desire universal health care are blood sucking aliens from the planet Zog. By your logic, it is ok for one side to make outrageous accusations and then the onus is on the accused to try and prove them wrong.
So, in the spirit of your post...........you are clearly a Muslim Terrorist who wants to bomb child care centres and rape senior citizens. It's apparently not up to me to substantiate my claims....by your logic it's up to you to disprove them. If and when you do that i'll just make up some more shit and accuse you of that.

And by the logic you've used above you'll be fine with that.




tazzygirl -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/30/2009 3:34:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If the democrats want to stop the so called lies, they should prove page by page that these items are not in the current bill. Why are they not doing so ? Maybe they are in the bill. Maybe they are not lies. 


As far as the chain email, i had already started to debunk many of them. Sems fact check did all of them... here is the link on what is true and not true.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/




Arpig -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/30/2009 3:43:25 PM)

Oh for fucks sake they have! The bill is available for download to all and sundry, and people on these boards have quoted chapter and verse how these terrifying things are not in the bill. What more do you want? You have been shown the relevant sections of the bill over and over and yet you still pretend that things that are not in the bill are in it. How is it that I ( a foreigner for fucks sake!!) can know these things yet you Americans have no fucking clue? Download the damned thing and read it for yourself! Its supporters have pointed it out to you often enough, and still we hear the same bullshit,clearly you don't believe us, so read it yourself!




tazzygirl -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/30/2009 3:45:34 PM)

Because, Arpig, once they read it, they have no excuses left.




mnottertail -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/30/2009 3:47:21 PM)

and if they don't, won't or are unable to read? Many's the fuckstick that made a living from hyperbole........





tazzygirl -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/30/2009 3:53:43 PM)

those are the ones the Republicans hope to reach and hold on too.




Esinn -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/31/2009 12:45:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

When people stop believing them....in other words: never.


When people critically examine personal beliefs being open to the fact they might be wrong within context of the existing evidence.




rulemylife -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/31/2009 12:52:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If the democrats want to stop the so called lies, they should prove page by page that these items are not in the current bill. Why are they not doing so ? Maybe they are in the bill. Maybe they are not lies. 



Well that all depends on how many times you need to have it put right in front of your face to prove to you it is not in the bill.

I mean, for God's sake, how many health care threads have we had and how many times has this been pointed out.




servantforuse -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/31/2009 1:37:36 PM)

Again I ask. Why won't the democrats just pass this bill ( when they return )? They have the votes. If they like it, vote on it. They do not need a single republican to get this through.




tazzygirl -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/31/2009 3:40:19 PM)

For the last time.... its called.. due process. Look up the song. you guys are so very fond of youtube




servantforuse -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/31/2009 4:23:05 PM)

How long do you think that 'due process" will take ?




tazzygirl -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/31/2009 4:29:35 PM)

Last i checked, the bills just left special committees? no? just before the session break? no one could have voted till they came out. listen to the damn song.




tazzygirl -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/31/2009 4:33:58 PM)

Wait... allow me.. since it is so difficult for you all to do so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dVo3nbLYC0

and... so there is no misunderstanding the words...

Wow! You sure gotta climb a lot of steps to get to this Capitol Building here in Washington!
Hey who's that sad little scrap of paper?

You really wanna know?

I'm just a bill
Yes, I'm only a bill
And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill
Well, it's a long, long journey
To the capitol city
It's a long, long wait
While I'm sitting in committee
But I know I'll be a law someday
At least I hope and pray that I will
But today I am still just a bill

Gee, Bill, you certainly have a lot of patience and courage!

BILL: I guess. I mean,I got this far. But when I started, I wasn't even a bill. I was just an idea. Some folks back home decided they wanted a law passed, so they called their local congressman and he said, "You're right, there oughta be a law." Then he sat down and wrote me out and introduced me to Congress, and I became a bill. And I'll remain a bill until they decide to make me a law.

I'm just a bill
Yes I'm only a bill
And I got as far as Capitol Hill
Well, now I'm stuck in committee
And I'll sit here and wait
While a few key congressmen discuss and debate
Whether they should let me be a law
How I hope and pray that they will
But today I am still just a bill

Listen to these congressmen arguing! Is all that discussion and debate about you?

BILL: You know it is, I'm one of the lucky ones, as most bills never even get this far. If they don't report favorable on me, I'm gonna die.

Die?

BILL: Yeah, die in committee. (Billy, you're up) Yeah, looks like I'm gonna live! I'm gonna go to the House of Representatives and they're gonna vote on me.

If they vote yes, what happens?

BILL: Well, then I got the Senate and the whole thing starts all over again.

GIRL: Oh no!

BILL: Oh yeah!

I'm just a bill
Yes, I'm only a bill
And if they vote for me on Capitol Hill
Well, then I'm off to the White House
Where I'll wait in a line
With other bills
For the President to sign
And he signs me then I'll be a law
How I hope and pray that he will
But today I am still just a bill

You mean even if the whole Congress says you should be a law, the President can still say no?

BILL: Yes, that's called a veto. If the President vetoes me, I have to go back to Congress, and they vote on me again, but you know by that time...

By that time, it's very unlikely that you become a law. It's not easy to become a law, is it?

BILL: No!

But how I hope and pray that I will
But today I am still just a bill

CONGRESSMAN: He signed you, Bill! Now you're a law!




servantforuse -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/31/2009 4:50:50 PM)

I'll make a prediction. The dems will not bring this bill up for a vote. They do not have the support of republicans or the blue dogs. They will only pass it with bi partisan support which they do not have. They do not want to be responsible for this boondoggle and not be able to claim both parties wanted it. They are running scared.




tazzygirl -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/31/2009 4:52:28 PM)

So instead of answering your own questions, you fall back on "predictions" when your proven wrong. Gotta love your chrystal ball.... so far... its not a good batting average for ya.




servantforuse -> RE: RNC and Health Care (8/31/2009 5:11:57 PM)

I asked the question, when will the dems bring this to a vote. I also answered it. They will not.




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