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Wireless Electricity - 8/31/2009 5:44:36 PM   
MasterG2kTR


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Status: offline 		Wireless Electricity

This is a concept first proposed by Nicola Tesla about a 100 years ago. The groundwork was done in the early 1900's and is still a viable concept. This video shows the potentials that it has. What I also see as one of the most practical benefits is the beauty added to any given landscape. No power poles, no transmission lines, no tangles of wires in the home, etc. Now consider the biggest benefit, electric cars that are powered by wireless transmission of power directly to your car.
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RE: Wireless Electricity - 8/31/2009 7:22:07 PM   
thornhappy


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Status: offline 		If it were feasible, they wouldn't have to bury cables.

Transmission systems are heinously expensive, and if there was a way to bypass them, the industry would be jumping for joy.

And "because they don't want you to know/they want a monopoly, etc." is not a valid reason (seen frequently regarding Tesla or zero point energy).

thornhappy

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 8/31/2009 8:19:39 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		Actually Thorn, the video was describing a system of doing away with wires in one's home, over short distances, not about distributing power to your home.

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 8/31/2009 8:30:10 PM   
sappatoti


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Status: offline 		That's pretty much what I gathered from the demo as well. The presenter did mention the mat, onto which an electric car would be parked for battery recharge, was plugged into the structure's wiring. He also talked about having coils in the ceilings, walls, floors, etc. Great for powering our gadgets and toys at short range.

I don't see how it would be practical for long-distance transmission unless, at the base of each tower, is a self-contained power generator, such as a bubble reactor, hydroelectric turbine, wind turbine, or solar collector.

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 8/31/2009 9:08:51 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		The demo is interesting but I have some doubts.

First off this is simple induction of current by an oscillating magnetic field. No matter what he says there is a magnetic field generated around and between the devices involved. It may not be very strong at a distance but near the devices the field is going to be rather intense. This might not be a problem for powering one device but if it was used to power every electrical device in a home that's a lot of magnetic fields oscillating at 60 Hz.

Second is energy loss. He's claiming 50% efficiency. Which is great for replacing batteries but for household appliances? How would you like your electric bill to double to do away with some wires?

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 8/31/2009 11:10:43 PM   
rightwinghippie


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Status: offline 		Wires can't be 100% efficient, right? What is the average % for household wiring?

It would be neat to have some wireless devices in a home network, laptop for example. Cordless tools. Big Tv hanging on the wall with no wires at all. That would look cool. No real need to have your oven be wireless though.

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 6:12:28 AM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR
No power poles, no transmission lines


That would call for one bitchin' antenna.



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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 6:14:59 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie

Wires can't be 100% efficient, right? What is the average % for household wiring?

Loss per foot of wire is very very low. So low that in most applications it is ignored.

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 8:14:33 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Status: offline 		It's an interesting concept but probably mainly for lazy people that can’t be bothered to align a device being charged with a charger. A normal two coil transformer has around 98% efficiency so a drop to 50% probably isn’t good enough at this point. I wonder where the rest of this energy goes to reduce to 50% efficiency? In the case of a normal transformer it is loss due to heat and vibration, obviously though the further away the device the weaker the magnetic field it is feeding off.

In any case it charges things like in the example of the mobile devices so how is it going to remove the need for the power cell in the phone? Most people won’t be using a phone near a charger. The car in the garage charging is a far better example and I could imagine these things being embedded in the road at charging points around a city so electric cars can charge up whilst parked to extend their range. Then again they could achieve the same thing with two metal plates embedded in the ground and two metal strips dangling underneath with a proximity chip used to activate the charging and bill the driver.


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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 8:38:10 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		DK, it works alot better at higher frequencies. Actually the only thing 60Hz is any good for now is synchronus motors in clocks and such. In most other equipment the AC is rectified, filtered and then converted to a much higher frequency which is fed to a trnsformer. This allows them to use a much smaller transformer per watt output.

Part of the reason there is so little loss across wires is because of transformers. If they tried to bring 120V to your house the wires would have to be about a foot thick. Instead it is stepped up to 3200V, 16,000V etc. for trnsmission, which then requires a network of transformers in each small area to distribute the 120V. It's not the same thing as an impedance matching transformer, but is very similar.

Even in the established scientific community there is speculation that the magnetic fields in which we live every day might be harming us. Not killing us overnight, but they recognize the possibility. Now imagine flooding one's home with these fields all day and night.

Also of concern is the excitation of items not intended to be powered. Case in point, the TOCCO process for heat treating and annealing steel (invented in Cleveland here BTW) uses a high frequency magnetic field to heat a piece of steel very quickly. Such a unit might use 700V at 700A. That's 49,000 watts, which is more than you would see in an average home, but nonetheless, the leakage magnetism from one such machine almost killed a guy years ago, he had left a lighter in his pocket and it exploded. And this is the leakage. What they were doing was to dump that 49,000 watts of induced power into crankshafts for car engines. TOCCO stands for The Ohio Cranksfaft CO. They deemed the power consumption worth it, rather than what it would take with fossil fuels or other methods. Added was the bonus of much faster production.

I would agree with those who have doubts about the practicality of this wireless energy. There are alot of unknowns. Of course I've read of the conspiracy theories, and as much as I do believe there are conspiracies, not all of the unexplained in life is a conspiracy.

We can't say that the human body would not be affected, look at an MRI scan and remember what those letters stand for. There has to be some reaction or the thing would not work. But then you do not live your life in an MRI scanner, What some percieve as a conspiracy may just be due trepidation.

T

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 9:00:05 AM   
PyrotheClown


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Status: offline 		read bout this in wired a few years back, some trippy shit, Looks like by the time I'm old and grey, I'll be gripe'n at the young yipper snappers
" back in my day, we had to plug shit in to walls,with cords"

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 9:03:48 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown
" back in my day, we had to plug shit in to walls,with cords"

Back in my day we used to be able to charge phone cards up by microwaving them and then quickly sticking them in the freezer to get free credit.

A phone card you asks?

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 9:05:53 AM   
PyrotheClown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown
" back in my day, we had to plug shit in to walls,with cords"

Back in my day we used to be able to charge phone cards up by microwaving them and then quickly sticking them in the freezer to get free credit.

A phone card you asks?


Haha, you're talking bout those cell phones that the phone card slid into right?yeah, those things were great, I think I still have one some where around here

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 9:15:20 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		No I was talking about phone cards you used to buy from a shop to use in public phone boxes. People thought they could con the system by doing all kinds of crazy things to them. Probably a UK thing. I do remember the credit card sim type thing for mobiles you speak of (they still come in those cards that you have to break the sim out of even though no phone uses that system anymore).

BT Phone card


< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 9/1/2009 9:18:59 AM >

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 11:18:34 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

DK, it works alot better at higher frequencies. Actually the only thing 60Hz is any good for now is synchronus motors in clocks and such. In most other equipment the AC is rectified, filtered and then converted to a much higher frequency which is fed to a trnsformer. This allows them to use a much smaller transformer per watt output.

Part of the reason there is so little loss across wires is because of transformers. If they tried to bring 120V to your house the wires would have to be about a foot thick. Instead it is stepped up to 3200V, 16,000V etc. for trnsmission, which then requires a network of transformers in each small area to distribute the 120V. It's not the same thing as an impedance matching transformer, but is very similar.

My point was we have for better or for worse settled on one phase 120v 60hz as household standard. It seems unlikely that a wireless power system would not start as a retrofit/conversion of existing homes and appliances. Therefore they would likely use 120V/60Hz.

But no matter the frequency I'm not terribly enthused with the idea of living around that many induction fields powerful enough to induce current flow across several feet of empty air.

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 4:23:34 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Actually Thorn, the video was describing a system of doing away with wires in one's home, over short distances, not about distributing power to your home.

Doh!  I think was expecting a Tesla rant like the kind from RealOne...

Now they already have something similar for charging batteries...

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/1/2009 5:28:09 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Agreed DK, I don't think I would want anything that does not contain the magnetic field, at any frequency. Well, not so much contained but focussed to a short range. Actual containment is a bit difficult, but the field can be focussed for a limited range by the design of the coils.

Interestingly, though not magnetic (except by personality), I pick up about 70 VAC at 60Hz as indicated by my scope at work. This is working into 11 megohms, and the location is on a major street about 4 miles from the center of the city. I know that is a miniscule amount of current, but it will flow if you touch anything grounded. There could be cumulative effects. There is no way to tell for sure. Most increases in human maladies are traced back to something more solid so to speak, some chemical agent or whatever. I mean even if we can blame some of it on dirty city air, who's to say it's always a chemical or biological toxin ?

thorn, yup, I do believe some electric cars charge that way. I'm sure there is some sort of interlock that prevents the big oscillator from firing up unless the "nozzle" is inserted correctly. In that case though, I think they went with inductive charging because of environmental factors. Rain, salt, slush all that. It can be hard to keep electrical sockets and plugs all nice and shiny, around here at least.

Anyway, this got me thinking about the inductive cooktop sitting in my spare room. Can't use it because I have very little cast iron cookware, it doesn't work all that well on stainless steel. But when you put something magnetic on the top it gets hot very quickly.

This whole idea needs to be investigated with a fine tooth comb before actually being put into common use. There's iron in them thar red blood cells. I could go for double blind multi-generational animal testing. For those against animal testing I got two things to say. One, it's better than putting people in such a field without knowing the effects and B; Just pick an animal we don't like.

T

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RE: Wireless Electricity - 9/3/2009 6:38:57 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

If it were feasible, they wouldn't have to bury cables.



"Man will never fly".


< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 9/3/2009 6:39:32 PM >

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