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RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 4:34:27 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

It seems like the party leadership would take the guy by the arms and say, "Come, Charlie. Step down for a while, until this is cleared up one way or the other, because as the top tax legislator in Congress with all these bombs going off all around you, you're making us look really bad."

Trying to pretend that this is nothing will only get you laughed at, Spinner, because just a casual look at the facts shows that this is really, really bad.

Where is the shame? ORIGINAL: Sanity



Don't look at me for shame, Sanity. I've thought that Rangel was a cheap, hustling, backroom crook for years. I never liked him. I never trusted him and I never voted for him. If I had my way, he'd be on the way home to pack for jail as soon as possible.

I would like ALL of our officials to be honest and trustworthy. Hell, if I thought that the Republicans were any more honest than the democrats, I'd change my support on a lot of candidates quicker than you can say Jack Robinson.

That being said, to indicate that a crooked politician, whatever politician is being held to the fire at the moment, is proof that one party or the other is more honest, has more integrity or is more trustworthy than the other is absolute nonsense. Similarly, it is nonsense to indicate that one party's politicians are treated more or less fairly by the media, their supporters and fellow members of their party than others.

If you want to say that Charlie Rangel  is a scumbag, you get no argument from me. If you say, however, that this proves anything more than that Charlie Rangel is a scumbag, then I will continue to disagree.


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RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 4:40:25 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

But really, and this may be a perception thing on my part, but I don't hear anyone complaining about Rangel from the left. I don't hear any calls for him to step down, I don't hear any condemnation from that side, and this is some really dirty nasty stuff. When Republicans are pulling that kind of shit I like for them to step down or be pushed aside because a. they're assholes and b. they make the rest of us look bad.


I no longer expect a party, or those that identify and support party politics to call out their side when something is done wrong. It is the us versus them game, and it would be like a football team pointing out one of their own offensive line for holding. In games of competition, teams often overlook their own cheating and breaking the rules. This is the fundamental problem of what has been going on for as long as politics has been around.

quote:


But all I'm hearing from the left is, "So what, he's a politician. What do you expect?" Or, "Well, REPUBLICANS do it too..." as if that's a legitimate defense of the guy.


I see some of that as well, and I again expect this because I see the game being played. Many, for whatever reason, will not or cannot step back and see the game for what it is. This is done on both sides, or if we had a three party system, it would be done on all sides. Their is a fundamental change that will need to occur in the "People's" thinking and actions, for this to change in the politicians.

quote:


So I am finding myself in disagreement of sorts, I'm seeing hypocrisy on one side that I don't perceive on the other. It could be just me and the way I see things, but I really don't think so.


The first few months after the election I pointed the hypocricy out a couple of times, and it did nothing. I still point it out on occassion but I pick my battles now, and try to make the post as party neutral as I can. Also, unless there is mudslinging, many people do not get as involved, because it does not tap into the emotional output areas that partisan politics stimulates.

quote:


Democrats campaigned on highlighting every scandal they could find among Republicans and screaming about it day after day. They called it a culture of corruption and claimed they were going to clean things up. Do you recall that? Now here they are - they have their chance, and what do they have to say about some of the worst kind of slimy corruption combined with sheer arrogance and stupidity?

Absolutely nothing.



This is the nature of the beast, and the people will need to slay the beast before anything will change. What I mean by that; politicians and the political parties will not change their behavior until the people force them to. Politicians first and foremost, want to retain power, so if that power is threatened they will react. If an Anti-I (meaning incumbant) campaign were to take hold, and you turned over the House of Representatives, and then said "We are not going to accept business as usual" it likely have more of an impact that anything else. I doubt it will occur because collective the people do not have the focus and willpower for it. It would mean setting aside certain agendas and issues, to impact the greater good of the system.

Hypocricy, corruption and all the other bad things polticians do, happen in both parties. When i read the political threads I replace the words Democrat and Republican with either politician or American, as applicable, and then the statement is more correct.

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RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 5:11:13 PM   
Sanity


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Bush's Liberal spending habits. If anything burns my ass, it's a flame about three feet high... and Bush's spending.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

I was pretty sure that I remember Sanity being very against the TARP bailouts by Bush, so I am not sure what you are talking about Loki....as well as immigration and NCLB issues.  


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RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 5:15:33 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
I pointed out 3, and there are plenty more.  Not the token one you pretend. 


Sure it is, when you consider the sheer number of threads slanted the other way. It's about ratios.


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RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 5:28:20 PM   
Sanity


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I am the balance, Loki. And its funny that you think you're nonpartisan, you and philo both think you are and you're just not. It's funny to hear you both of you criticize me for the exact thing you try to do on the other side.

Besides all you left wingers here there are plenty of other proponents for the left, including moveon.org, HuffPo, DailyKOS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, Time Magazine, Newsweek, The New York Times, The Idaho Statesman (and most other newspapers)... the list really goes on and on, and you and they are doing fine on your own.

You really don't need my help.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
I just insisted that you try some semblence of balance.


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RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 5:51:00 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
I am the balance, Loki. 


Awfully presumptuous of you, don't you think?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
And its funny that you think you're nonpartisan,


I don't just think it, I know it. What you 'think' is irrelevant. As they say in Tango and Cash "You got your version, I got the truth."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
It's funny to hear you both of you criticize me for the exact thing you try to do on the other side.


Ahh, there's your problem. I have no side. I point out the absurd regardless of the political affiliation involved. The reason you 'think' I'm partisan is because in the threads you start, in order to provide the balance, I must comment from the opposite side.

Like I said, try it sometime. Criticize one republican politician (and do so without calling them or what they are doing liberal) and then you'd be balanced. You don't do that. I asked you to do it already, and you attacked Bush's "liberal" stance on something. That is, by definition, the opposite of what I said to do.

For every news source you claim is liberally biased, there's one that's slanted for the right. Don't even try that lame excuse. All I have to do is mention Faux News and then I can avoid wasting my time rattling off the others.

You're slanted, don't deny it. Hey, if you want to slant, slant away. But don't lie about it and claim you're balanced. You're no more balanced than any of the news sources you claim. You're just slanted the opposite direction.



_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 6:00:56 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Isn't it predictable, Sanity?  When the corrupt politician is a Democrat, it's business as usual, and completely bipartisan.  When it's a Republican, we can tar and feather the whole party. 



Heritic, Jesus called. He'd like you to get off the cross so he can have it back. Thanks.




Way to leap to a personal attack on me, rather than address my accusation of your selective outrage, Spinner.  Pretty much exactly the sort of response I have come to expect from you.

Oh, and if Jesus (Hay-soos) wants the cross, he's just going to have to wait until after I've had a nice flogging


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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 6:08:54 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:




Way to leap to a personal attack on me, rather than address my accusation of your selective outrage, Spinner.  Pretty much exactly the sort of response I have come to expect from you.

Oh, and if Jesus (Hay-soos) wants the cross, he's just going to have to wait until after I've had a nice flogging



Sorry if you got offended. I am however, tired of this "Everybody is picking on me." attitude. No, republicans are not treated more harshly than democrats. Democrats are not treated more harshly than republicans. In both cases, the agreeing party makes excuses, the opposing party acts as if an original sin was discovered and the media peddles whatever story will sell the most beer.

I think a far better idea is to admit that corruption is rampant in both parties, that neither is better than the other and that we'd all be better off doing something about it. Failing that, I will take what amusement value I can out of the "Poor me....all the [fill in the opposing party here] are picking on my good, honest and noble representatives" nonsense.


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 6:15:09 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

Awfully presumptuous of you, don't you think?


I'm a presumptuous guy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
I don't just think it, I know it. What you 'think' is irrelevant. As they say in Tango and Cash "You got your version, I got the truth."


We're all moderates... in our own minds.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
Ahh, there's your problem. I have no side. I point out the absurd regardless of the political affiliation involved. The reason you 'think' I'm partisan is because in the threads you start, in order to provide the balance, I must comment from the opposite side.

Like I said, try it sometime. Criticize one republican politician (and do so without calling them or what they are doing liberal) and then you'd be balanced. You don't do that. I asked you to do it already, and you attacked Bush's "liberal" stance on something. That is, by definition, the opposite of what I said to do.

For every news source you claim is liberally biased, there's one that's slanted for the right. Don't even try that lame excuse. All I have to do is mention Faux News and then I can avoid wasting my time rattling off the others.

You're slanted, don't deny it. Hey, if you want to slant, slant away. But don't lie about it and claim you're balanced. You're no more balanced than any of the news sources you claim. You're just slanted the opposite direction.


Where have I denied it? What I said is that I am the balance... and I am. I am the balance against the far left, the likes of you and philo, and I am proud of it. There is absolutely nothing wrong in believing in something and standing up for it.

I'll continue to criticize Republicans as I see fit, and pass on it as I please too. You just continue to refuse to see that I do on occasion but that's okay. No big deal. Besides, what could I possibly add to all your "Hatin' Palin" threads.

?


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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 6:26:31 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
We're all moderates... in our own minds.


But only some of us are correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Where have I denied it? What I said is that I am the balance... and I am. I am the balance against the far left, the likes of you and philo, and I am proud of it. There is absolutely nothing wrong in believing in something and standing up for it.


You deny it when you claim to be balanced. Then you say things like "the likes of you and philo" which I find hilarious. I've made just as many postings against the far left as I have the far right, just never in your threads because you *are* the far right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
I'll continue to criticize Republicans as I see fit, and pass on it as I please too. You just continue to refuse to see that I do on occasion but that's okay. No big deal. Besides, what could I possibly add to all your "Hatin' Palin" threads.


But what you fail to see is that when you *do* criticize the repubicans, you're doing so by calling them 'liberals.' That is a criticism of the left, whether you want to admit it or not. How about you criticize Bush and his stealing of rights with the Patriot Act? Oh but no...that's a republican thing...so you wouldn't. You wouldn't criticize that until it was softened to be less harsh and then you'd attack how 'liberal' it was sounding.

You're really very funny...in small doses. After a small dose, it does get a bit boring. Hence why I don't comment in every thread you start....because it would never stop and I do usually have better things to do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Besides, what could I possibly add to all your "Hatin' Palin" threads.


Well, nothing. That is if you actually think that quitter would have been good for the country (she wouldn't). If, however, you didn't think she was good for the country, I certainly never saw a post from you saying that.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 8:00:32 PM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

But only some of us are correct.


Close - only one of us realizes we are partisan.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

You deny it when you claim to be balanced.


I don't claim to be balanced. Never have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

Then you say things like "the likes of you and philo" which I find hilarious. I've made just as many postings against the far left as I have the far right, just never in your threads because you *are* the far right.


Maybe you do. Is that really better? To me it's just sort of schizo.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

But what you fail to see is that when you *do* criticize the repubicans, you're doing so by calling them 'liberals.'


There's a good reason for that. I'm a right winger. Surprised?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

That is a criticism of the left, whether you want to admit it or not.


I'll admit it. Of course it is! I criticize the left because the left is wrong on just about every issue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

How about you criticize Bush and his stealing of rights with the Patriot Act? Oh but no...that's a republican thing...so you wouldn't.


Wait - the Dems voted overwhelmingly for the Patriot Act. And it was no big deal. It had a sunset clause, the Congress was in the hands of the opposition Democrats (so the president's power was very limited), the courts were independent, and the press was highly critical of everything the executive branch did.

Now, the press is mostly shameless cheerleaders of anything the president does, no matter how outrageous.

And the left was just using the Patriot Act like it used Cindy Sheehan and like it used everything else it could get its hands on to attack the president purely for political gain.

The left feigned mass hysteria over the Patriot Act (and the wars, etc), but the moment a Dem became president? Suddenly, none of it was important any more.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

You wouldn't criticize that until it was softened to be less harsh and then you'd attack how 'liberal' it was sounding.


You lost me here. What?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

You're really very funny...in small doses. After a small dose, it does get a bit boring. Hence why I don't comment in every thread you start....because it would never stop and I do usually have better things to do.


The feeling is mutual, you've probably noticed that I rarely respond to your posts (before your bitter, partisan attacks on me today).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

Well, nothing. That is if you actually think that quitter would have been good for the country (she wouldn't). If, however, you didn't think she was good for the country, I certainly never saw a post from you saying that.


I saw the Palin threads for what they were, mindless partisan hate fests, so for the most part I avoided them.





< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/3/2009 8:04:22 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: How About An Ethics Czar? - 9/3/2009 8:28:13 PM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline
I think this has gone on long enough.  Same players, same melody, different title.  Change the channel folks, this program is getting awfully tiring.

XI



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This mod goes to eleven.

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Profile   Post #: 72
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