quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein

Is TPE static or dynamic? For the master, it is primarily dynamic. The collaring is the start of a process; the enslavement process gives him the satisfaction he wants, more than the final result. How can we otherwise explain that a master will train his slave to eat from a ball or stop using furniture? There is no practical use to it, the savings in dishwasher soap will be minimal, cuddling or fondling a woman at your feet requires more exercise than when she is next to you on the couch. When a very logical master explains that he is still pushing the boundaries of his slave after fifteen years, we can only wonder: is he particularly slow? The obvious answer is that masters enjoy the enslaving process more than the final result. The Marquis de Sade never wrote about degraded women, he wrote about the degrading of women. I read his complete work, leather-bound of course

For the slave, I am not sure that the process is as important – and pleasurable – as for the master. I did not investigate this crucial point, but I think that a slave see it more as a series of test where she can prove her love as well as earn respect and attention from her master.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein

Lally,

of course one can understand what he has never experienced! It is called empathy, putting yourself in other people's shoes... and it works pretty well

I agree with you, experience is better than hypothesis, and deductions, but please tell me what a person should do who has a moral dillema precisely about this experience? Well he observes, build hypotheses, let them fall, contrast opinions, build again hypotheses... After he certain time, he as a pretty good picture -- according to himself, of course -- upon which he can base his decision. BTW, did JFK ask for somebody with experience in moonwalking before making his decision?

I did not wrote the OP to critisize other's people life. Believe me, the tone and the arguments would have been different.

I did not wrote to impress anybody either, deductions, how brillant they may be, never impress. If I want to impress, I write stories or essays on a subject I master

I wrote the OP with Word, as a way of synthetising my thinking, to cleanse my head, make my choice and come to peace with myself. Because I write much easier when I think of a public, I decided to publish here on the forum.

I knew it would irk some people. So what? I do not impose the reading of my posts to anybody afterall (now, that is a nasty idea, impose to a slave the reading of my posts. But as tortures go, this would not ne safe and sane)

Actually it irked more people than I would have wished because of my evil choice of word (evil instead of bad).

Kinky regards

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein
Actually it irked more people than I would have wished because of my evil choice of word (evil instead of bad).

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I'd be very interested to hear how you arrived at this conclusion...

In a master slave relationship, it is obvious that the slave’s rights are trampled upon like a doormat at a Christmas party in Minnesota.

Please define "rights" and provide examples. And then please describe specifically how the rights you mentioned are being trampled on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I'd be very interested to hear how you arrived at this conclusion...

In a master slave relationship, it is obvious that the slave’s rights are trampled upon like a doormat at a Christmas party in Minnesota.
 
and actually while we're asking, why minnesota especially..
 


. And yet people are very happy, particularly the "right-less" ones in living this way. It's that odd and quite thought-provoking contradiction (the existence happiness outside of freedom) that the thread starter is exploring, IMO.

smiles))) - this is so lame of me, im sorry, i apologise profusely for it, but  just to make the hackneyed point - (sorry )  freedom exists massively for a slave in TPE - finally, in that environment they are free, safe, secure, understood and completely encouraged to express themselves.

its a wonderful freedom - its the only place i feel absolutely free and able to be me.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

quote:

He cites what rights he's talking about in his post, as a means of contrasting the oddness of TPE with what most of us are still brought up to think of as our natural freedoms. Correct me if I'm wrong Falkenstein, but I believe he means the political rights that emerged from and were verbalized, perhaps for the first time, during the French Revolution and were, as he also correctly states, adopted by the early Americans and placed in their founding documents describing their government. See the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and other documents from the French Revolution for your examples.

In a master-slave relationship, the type we call TPE, the only rights the slave has are those the master gives her. This is about as far from a democratic environment that insures "certain inalienable rights" as one can get. (Didn't someone mention in a recent thread that a TPE was not unlike a totalitarian government? I'm going to have to do a search on that--I'd like to remember what thread that was and who said it--I seem to remember, however, the sentiment was agreed with by a number of posters to the thread.) And yet people are very happy, particularly the "right-less" ones in living this way. It's that odd and quite thought-provoking contradiction (the existence happiness outside of freedom) that the thread starter is exploring, IMO.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Don't confuse a genuine critical response with an emotional lashing out. Most of the people responding to this thread have said, "You've got it wrong. You need to experience this for yourself before you'll truly understand." That's not irked. It's an honest assessment of your essay along with some advice about why it might've gone off target.

By the way, I can sympathize with making a posting to sort out your own thinking. I do that sometimes too. Heh, and just like you, when I do it that post tends to get a lot of negative response *chuckles*.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka


It's such a crucial difference, though, that a TPE slave is free to *choose* his/her totalitarian.....   no?  That the rights are given up freely, to a particular agent, at least initially?

quote:

Sravaka, the problem is that these rights cannot be given up freely or otherwise. Even if you wanted, you could not get rid of them. Nobody has the right to give up these rights .

quote:

Sravaka, the problem is that these rights cannot be given up freely or otherwise. Even if you wanted, you could not get rid of them. Nobody has the right to give up these rights .

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka


It's such a crucial difference, though, that a TPE slave is free to *choose* his/her totalitarian.....   no?  That the rights are given up freely, to a particular agent, at least initially?

Sravaka, the problem is that these rights cannot be given up freely or otherwise. Even if you wanted, you could not get rid of them. Nobody has the right to give up these rights .

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein


The answer is love, love and kink, but firstly deep love.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Falkenstein

Good and evil are supposedly relative: I am disgusted by an Islamic state beating a woman who drank a beer, but many people in that state, Indonesia, will consider it rather lenient. Some of this forum even had a good laugh at it. They are wrong and I am right. Right and wrong are absolute categories. For me they are defined by the universal declaration of human rights, which was written at the beginning of the French Revolution – and was not applied by her, but this is another story. The declaration is universal, which means that it applies to every person, wherever he or she lives. The rights are inaliable, which means that nobody, even the concerned person has the right to limit them.