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RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 10:58:54 AM   
SilentSpark


Posts: 36
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Someone may shake my trust and respect of them to the very core, but in all honesty, that is my issue to work through. If they choose to do all they can work through it with me and show me in every way they can that they, too, hope for a better future, I am the one at fault if the relationship fails. I am now the one not owning up to what I claimed to be trying to achieve with him/her. Love much, forgive much, keep the hold on resentment short. Two wrongs don't make a right, they just make the world have a temperature of absolute zero.

quote:

lovingpet


I don't get it. how could someone shake your trust become "your issue to work through"? If I understand it correctly, you mean if your loved one cheated on you, it is your issue to work it through?! Sorry if I fail to see the logic in this. There're forgivable mistakes, and there're also bottom lines. For mistakes, I'm willing to deal with it; if my partner cross the bottom line, then there's no issue to "work through", it's over.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 11:00:21 AM   
fuzzywumpas


Posts: 43
Joined: 3/17/2009
From: A galaxy far, far away...
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Hey Fuzzy!

I am of the general opinion that good relationships take a lot of hard work. It is not that having a relationship should be hard, but that bad times can and do come. Someone may shake my trust and respect of them to the very core, but in all honesty, that is my issue to work through. If they choose to do all they can work through it with me and show me in every way they can that they, too, hope for a better future, I am the one at fault if the relationship fails. I am now the one not owning up to what I claimed to be trying to achieve with him/her. Love much, forgive much, keep the hold on resentment short. Two wrongs don't make a right, they just make the world have a temperature of absolute zero.

lovingpet


And if the response is "I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want to, this is the way I am and I'm not going to change"?  Last time I checked, it takes 2 to tango, or work out problems in a relationship. I guess I need to work out if the trust is shaken or broken. The problem is - the highs are so incredibly high, like nothing I've ever felt before, even with previous Masters or the ex-husband. The lows, well, they match the highs, in that they're like nothing I've ever felt before. I'm trying to keep the resentment out of it but as usual, everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is twisted back as my fault. He's hurt His back, but doesn't say anything, it's MY fault because I didn't ask and trusted Him to tell me if He wasn't feeling good. I'm supposed to report MY feelings and physical status every day but I can only find out about Him if I ask. I always thought "hey, honey, I'm not feeling so hot today, My back hurts." was common courtesy. Or you know what I mean.

Can I turn a blind eye on certain things? And if I do, then aren't I the one at fault for trying to ignore them? And when the resentment builds inside and I can't express it? I don't know. I'm seeing a serious issue of where open communication was required for this relationship but it's not 2-way communication. I have to bare all, He can just tell whatever He feels like, whether I like it or not. I'm not allowed to ask questions. I have to accept what he chooses to let me know.

Somehow, I get the feeling this isn't going to end pretty.



(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 11:09:16 AM   
SilentSpark


Posts: 36
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Fuzzy

I believe open communication is one of the most important factor in DS relationship. If you feel that you can't communicate with your Master, there might be an issue. My suggestion is to sit down with him, and express your concern. let him know that as a partner you deserve to know how he feels. This is not "slavery", this is consensual DS.

Also, if he makes everything somehow your fault, then i'd really suggest you be careful. because it is a classic, textbook emotional manipulation. check out emotional manipulation online and see if your situation fits.

last for your question, "And if the response is "I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want to, this is the way I am and I'm not going to change"?", I had that before, and my response is "good bye" and I left him for good.

(in reply to fuzzywumpas)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 11:17:08 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilentSpark


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Someone may shake my trust and respect of them to the very core, but in all honesty, that is my issue to work through. If they choose to do all they can work through it with me and show me in every way they can that they, too, hope for a better future, I am the one at fault if the relationship fails. I am now the one not owning up to what I claimed to be trying to achieve with him/her. Love much, forgive much, keep the hold on resentment short. Two wrongs don't make a right, they just make the world have a temperature of absolute zero.

quote:

lovingpet


I don't get it. how could someone shake your trust become "your issue to work through"? If I understand it correctly, you mean if your loved one cheated on you, it is your issue to work it through?! Sorry if I fail to see the logic in this. There're forgivable mistakes, and there're also bottom lines. For mistakes, I'm willing to deal with it; if my partner cross the bottom line, then there's no issue to "work through", it's over.


It is MY trust. When I take ownership of that, it means I determine if and how I will process the issue. I am not saying that it is necessarily going to result in reconsiliation, but being unable to reconsile rests with me. I also own that decision. I did not do the initial deed that got the ball rolling, but I must own every step I take after that.

It is amazing to me what is a dealbreaker to a lot of people mainly because I have witnessed people survive and even thrive through a lot of these horrible things. Yes, that includes infidelity. Most of the time the injured party was convinced that they could NEVER forgive that and that the relationship couldn't be saved. It turns our the love and bond were stronger than they thought. This isn't always the case, but I have to speak strongly in the direction of encouraging people to stick it out and really try. People give up to damn easy for my tastes anymore.

lovingpet

(in reply to SilentSpark)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 11:36:49 AM   
SilentSpark


Posts: 36
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline 		I understand and appreciate people taking responsibility for their decision. But like I said before, there're things in relationship that we can work with, and there're things that we can't. Everyone has a different bottom line and there's really not right or wrong about it. You're surprised to see how many people break up over something you consider less significant, on the contrary, I'm surprised to see how many people can put up with stuff that's unhealthy, abusive and destructive.


(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 11:36:56 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well, let's start with the easy part. The whole not letting you know he is not well thing is not uncommon. Most men I have been with and known as family or friends tend to do this. I just had a grandfather put of serious back surgery for two year. He finally had it done when he couldn't walk anymore and the surgery only partially restored him. Had he done it sooner, he was nearly guaranteed a 100% recovery (he went for the consultation earlier and then refused the surgery). Physical weakness seems especially hard to admit. I wouldn't take that so personally.

The rest? You know as a fact that you can't ask him anything? Communication is a four part loop, and one of those is now missing. This is a big deal and something that has to be repaired. Stress makes a lot of people shut down. It isn't right, but it is very common. How much stress is in his life at this time? How can you help? Can others help? In the end being able to get some couples counseling is probably the most beneficial thing, but it sounds like it's not going to be met with much enthusiasm. I don't know what else to suggest.

As for the blame placing, I don't like being blamed for things that are not my fault. I take a great deal of responsibility as it is, so I usually find it insulting. I have learned long ago, however, that placing blame has nothing to do with reality and actually is nothing personal. It is a response that occurs when people can't take on anymore for themselves and have lost the ability for whatever reason to ask for the help they need to manage better. I have gotten to the point where I will tell people to simply blame me because I can take it. I can handle what they have to say and it doesn't shake me any. My response to being blamed has now become, "So how can I help make it better?" You see, I did not accept their accusation, nor did I let them off the hook for their own part in it. What I have done is left them a door to walk through to be able to manage better. I have also left them holding the bag if they refuse the help offered and things get any worse. They can blame me again, but I will say, "I tried to help, but you didn't take me up on it. How may I help you now?". This can go on ad infinitum, but at some point the person will usually finally get it and the cycle is broken. The blame game can stop on that issue.

I don't know if any of this helps, but I do sincerely wish you the best! Whatever decisions you have to make, I know they won't be easy and I will hope you will keep in mind to do what is right for you and yours above all. Our opinions don't even matter. It comes down to what is best for you and your relationship.

lovingpet

(in reply to fuzzywumpas)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 11:43:37 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I find those words to be buzzwords. I have experienced the real deal. I have also seen the terms thrown around to cover indiscretions, humanity, and simple poor initial decisions. Those bottom lines are MINE in my relationships and, therefore, the relationship ends because of me and what I can't tolerate. The initial action has little to do with it at that point. I don't have very many bottom lines because I know there are far too many factors involved to be drawing lines all over the place. Motivations matter far more than actions. Why did this person do it? What was my role in it? Relationships are complicated and messy because they involve very complicated creatures call humans. I try very hard to not lose sight of that human factor. Last I checked, I was still capable of being human myself.

lovingpet

(in reply to SilentSpark)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 12:23:35 PM   
Golden614


Posts: 19
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline 		Well said, loving pet. I think this is a sore subject for me because I do think people give up too easily these days. And, yes, of course each person is different and has different reasons for the way they are and the decisions they make. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying I choose not to be that way and that it has a tendency to make me a little despondent when I see good people lose a good thing over what amounts to a mistake. But then, too, I don't advocate giving your all to someone you don't have at least a couple years of history with. The definition of commitment is: The state of being bound emotionally or intellectually to a course of action or to another person or persons. If you are to cite commitment to a person, but then get up and walk away because your feelings got hurt, without even being willing to TRY and work it out, how much of a commitment did you ever really have? At what point is it just laziness, fear, and/or your own trust issues preventing you from accepting that a person can love you and want you in their life AND still manage to screw up? And at what point do you own up and accept your own responsibility for the end of that relationship?

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 1:45:55 PM   
shadowowl


Posts: 198
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think there is anything wrong with ditching someone that cheats on you.  I was with my now ex-wife for 5 years she cheated on me and it was over i have no regrets and I would do it again.  Of course she also made not attempt to appoligize :P
  But I think the issue is really what is the line that breaks trust for you?
maybe cheating partners dont' break your trust they just rattle it.
that's the real question for those that think trust can be repaired is where do you draw the line?
what if your partner of 20 years killed your child and lied to you about it and you found out?  can it be repaired?  what if you found out your partner accidently killed a sub while doing a scene and admitted it was their fault and spent a few months in prison for it.. could you still trust them? 
where do you draw the line and if that line is crossed is there anyway to repair?
i mean if my partner stole $100 off me when they had me in a cage and went through my wallet.. that I could actually forgive and move past while others would not.   So when you say trust can be repaired at what point do you draw the line that it can't?
some people might think cheating on their partner is minor cause it's so common so it may not even bother them :P  but ignoring for a moment everyone else's opinions on where the line is drawn, where do you draw your own line and if they cross it how much faith do you have in their ability to repair it.
my health and safety is pretty major lines if i say no breath play and they proceed to do it.  breach of trust.
if someone uses a safe word and they ignore it and tell you safe words are for newbs to shut up and take it.. breach of trust.
if they do something completely off the wall like tell you they invited some friends over to play too after they gagged and tied you up and you have no say in it and it's never been talked about and you told them it was your limit..  breach of trust.
they are married to you for 20 years decide to sell the house without mentioning it to you and forged your signature on the paperwork.. can you still work it out?     I mean to me breaking trust are Major things and no matter how long you are with someone or how much you love them there is always a line of when trust can never be repaired again.
The longer you are with someone the stronger your trust is and the harder it is to truly break so it bends and may get out of shape but not break so easy.  Married for 20 years they cheat on you a single time but because the trust between you is so strong that may not break it it may just bend it and be worked out.  you know them for a week and they do it.  game over the trust was not strong enough to withstand that.  
But I guess it's just a matter of opinion on weather or not trust is broken, bent, shaken, nudged, or out right shattered.   
but I really don't think things will ever be the same between anyone that trust is broken completely no matter how long they are together there is always a point of no return that can be achieved with a single action.   And of course if you trust someone that point is something you can not even imagine your partner doing in a million years which is of course why you trust them to begin with :)
So I really fail to see anyone really saying trust can be the same if it's out right broken no matter how long you are with someone or how much you love them or how much time or effort is put into fixing it if they find that line that really breaks trust with you personally.

(in reply to Golden614)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 1:58:32 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		As illogical as it is though, shadowowl, I have seen trust restored and even grow to be even better out of very dark trials. Make no mistake that trust was broken badly and it was a horrifically painful process and there were times where the relationship could fall under such titles as "unhealthy", "abusive", etc. It was downright ugly for a long time. Still, it happened.

No one has ever stated that someone's breaking point cannot be their breaking point. People are discussing what those various points might be and why. No one is advocating staying with a cheating spouse. It is a very personal decision whether or not there is any hope at that point. This is true of any line a person winds up drawing. I will not condemn someone for drawing it, not that anyone would care anyway. I can't know what all went into that decision. Each person has to make that call for him/herself and on a case by case basis with some basic core values in place to guide that decision.

lovingpet

< Message edited by lovingpet -- 9/5/2009 2:44:32 PM >

(in reply to shadowowl)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 2:37:40 PM   
shadowowl


Posts: 198
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline 		well if it is then I would clasify what you saw as a "miricle" cause it's probably a 1 in a million occurace :P   definilty not the norm.   I have also seen couples stay together after trust is broke and put up the "happy face" and pretend all is well because they view the commitment as more importent then the breach of trust (specially if they are religious).   But deep down it was never the same despite outward appearnce.  
But anyway if it can be repaired I've never seen it and its highly unlikely i'll ever experiance it but Never say Never I guess :) 
I would just hope that trust is never broken so I don' thave to ever really find out first hand.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 2:38:01 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
As illogical as it is, though shadowowl, I have seen trust restored and even grow to be even better out of very dark trials.

That which does not kill us makes us stronger.

There's nothing illogical about it. Only that a lot of people are more interested in righteous indignation than the hard work of "getting stronger".

Shadowowl:
I agree with the rest of what pet said. EVERYONE has their points beyond which recovery is not possible -- myself included. The real question is not whether or not you have a line in the sand, the real question is whether or no you're going to let your theoretical line overshadow the reality of the moment. As pet said, each situation is different. Going into it with a pre-determined mindset is, at least in my mind, sub-optimal.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Trust part II - 9/5/2009 3:15:51 PM   
shadowowl


Posts: 198
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline 		I do have lines in the sand though I am the first to admit it's not a good thing.  Never the less it's how I am and always will be.  I view my standing behind my principles in the face of losing my love as making me stronger not the other way around but to each their own :)  I'm an idealist not a realist. 
Sometimes I wish I could be more of a realist but its not in my nature to much religious influance as a child I suppose lol.  Damn those catholic schools :P
  

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Trust part II - 9/7/2009 5:12:53 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		Sometimes things break and often you can glue them back together... it might be a big job and sometimes the break remains visible... but it does not necessarily take away from the overal end result though.

On the whole i tend to value people who manage to stick matters back together more than people who tend to throw things out with the trash too quickly.

Though indeed sometimes things are beyond repair and should be recognised as such.

(in reply to fuzzywumpas)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Trust part II - 9/7/2009 7:16:59 AM   
stillholdson


Posts: 15
Joined: 9/4/2009
Status: offline 		Fr

quote:

But I guess it's just a matter of opinion on weather or not trust is broken, bent, shaken, nudged, or out right shattered.   
but I really don't think things will ever be the same between anyone that trust is broken completely no matter how long they are together there is always a point of no return that can be achieved with a single action. 
quote:



Some people will always keep on with their trust breaking behaviors.

When this is the case... the other is the relationship is setting themself up to fail and to a world of hurt.
Relationships have enough stress at times without not being able to trust another to have your emotional well being in mind.
I do believe in giving a second chance to see if it is workable so to speak.
For me , my heart being so inconsequential to another is a deal breaker.
I give my all and when it is stomped on more than once with the same lie...I'm outta there so fast your head will spin.

As s types,we are responsible for what we get ourselves into...
and if you can't trust some one...
why would you go to the edge and back?

I would think the D types have various thoughts such as this too that are deal breakers about trust.

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Trust part II - 9/7/2009 7:26:08 AM   
xXsoumisXx


Posts: 339
Joined: 7/26/2009
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fuzzywumpas

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Hey Fuzzy!

I am of the general opinion that good relationships take a lot of hard work. It is not that having a relationship should be hard, but that bad times can and do come. Someone may shake my trust and respect of them to the very core, but in all honesty, that is my issue to work through. If they choose to do all they can work through it with me and show me in every way they can that they, too, hope for a better future, I am the one at fault if the relationship fails. I am now the one not owning up to what I claimed to be trying to achieve with him/her. Love much, forgive much, keep the hold on resentment short. Two wrongs don't make a right, they just make the world have a temperature of absolute zero.

lovingpet


And if the response is "I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want to, this is the way I am and I'm not going to change"?  Last time I checked, it takes 2 to tango, or work out problems in a relationship. I guess I need to work out if the trust is shaken or broken. The problem is - the highs are so incredibly high, like nothing I've ever felt before, even with previous Masters or the ex-husband. The lows, well, they match the highs, in that they're like nothing I've ever felt before. I'm trying to keep the resentment out of it but as usual, everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is twisted back as my fault. He's hurt His back, but doesn't say anything, it's MY fault because I didn't ask and trusted Him to tell me if He wasn't feeling good. I'm supposed to report MY feelings and physical status every day but I can only find out about Him if I ask. I always thought "hey, honey, I'm not feeling so hot today, My back hurts." was common courtesy. Or you know what I mean.

Can I turn a blind eye on certain things? And if I do, then aren't I the one at fault for trying to ignore them? And when the resentment builds inside and I can't express it? I don't know. I'm seeing a serious issue of where open communication was required for this relationship but it's not 2-way communication. I have to bare all, He can just tell whatever He feels like, whether I like it or not. I'm not allowed to ask questions. I have to accept what he chooses to let me know.

Somehow, I get the feeling this isn't going to end pretty.




regardles of what kind of relationship you have, M/s D/s, whatever, it's still 2 people in a relationship. Basic relationship issues are there too. These issues, and how you deal with them, don't change because of titles. 

(in reply to fuzzywumpas)
Profile   Post #: 36
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