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sskitten -> RE: Exploring D/s in vanilla marriage (2/27/2006 8:56:38 AM)
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Hello, this topic is of great interest to me. This is why I joined collarme in the first place last September, as I too am a sub in a vanilla marriage and was wondering what to do with my submissive feelings... whether to try (once again) to engage my husband in D/s or to seek D/s outside of my marriage. I saw that one of the past threads recommended in this current thread deteriorated into a morality discussion and I would not want that to happen here. But I do think some of my experiences might give you some additional food for thought as you enter into this exploration with your husband.
Here are some of the issues I've bumped into and some of the lessons learned so far:
1) Are you interested in D/s mostly in the bedroom or as more of a 24/7 shift of mindset?
In my own situation, what I found out about my husband is that we both prefer to be more submissive in the bedroom, but when I made D/s easy for him then he has found it a turn-on to dominate me periodically. I found ways to do this without having to say a word. And I think in your situation you are finding that when you need to bring up the topic then you feel like the one in control when you want him to be the one in control.
Examples in the bedroom:
* I love bondage but through the years he had only tied me up a few times and very half-heartedly (and not securely!). So I bought something called "Under the Bed Restraint System" and showed it to him. It's got four attached straps and four cuffs, and we keep it under our mattress at all times. In a matter of a few seconds he can pull out the ends of each strap (with a Velcro cuff hooked to each) and secure my outstretched wrists and ankles. He has taken the initiative to use this several times. I suppose if I were in the mood I could merely pull out the straps myself and he would understand!
* I understood that if I wanted to increase my feelings of submissiveness to my husband without having to say to him, "Control me," I should find ways to make myself available to him without pressuring him. So for Christmas I gave him 24 coupons saying "[my name] will do whatever you want, whenever you want." He loves those coupons. And he tends to hand me one right while I am in the middle of doing some computer work at home in the middle of the day. That means I need to drop everything to "service" him however he wishes. He never would have thought to interrupt me in this way in the past (or only rarely). For him, knowing that I have made myself available to him for anything, anything is a turn-on and so even though he doesn't enjoy controlling the dynamics, he enjoys controlling the when and what. And I enjoy knowing that I am bound to this commitment.
* I acquired some fun outfits for bedroom use, and sometimes I'll surprise him by putting one on. And when I do, it seems to active the faint pulse of his domination. Sometimes I've done this while responding to being handed a coupon (I'll disappear into the bathroom for a minute and emerge as a slut instead of his wife) and this helps us to shed our usual roles and mindset.
* I haven't actually done this but I've thought about it: I have a collar which my husband doesn't know about. I've thought about maybe sometimes putting it on as a silent signal to him that I am in a very submissive frame of mind, wishing to be controlled and ready for his control. It would be his choice whether to act on the cue or not.
Even if you think you would like D/s as more of a 24/7 change of dynamic rather than just in the bedroom, I think you realize from reading the threads and from your own experience that it doesn't happen overnight. Submission is offered and control taken in little steps, drop by drop. And so it might make sense to identify some comfortable areas for these first steps, and the bedroom in my mind makes a great first step because in the bedroom we can sometimes feel freer to drop our customary roles and take on other roles, for play or for real, for a few minutes or for a longer duration. We can feel less inhibited to try on new ideas and a new personna for size. We can discuss the dynamics afterwards, limiting the discussion to that particular encounter rather than getting into a possibly-too-heavy discussion of the entire relationship, but learning more about ourselves and each other in the process.
2) Control is not "taken," but rather, submission is "offered" and accepted.
One of the more fascinating concepts I've encountered during my exploration (reading and discussing and experiencing) is that even though the Dom is the one presumably in control, it is the sub who empowers the Dom. Without the sub's willingness and eagerness to submit, there is no control (if control is taken without a sub's willingness then it is still not D/s but becomes mere abuse). In marital relationships like yours and mine, there is a female who is a sub on the inside but who has become accustomed to taking the reins often or even most of the time in day-to-day life in general and in the marriage as well. And so it does require an enormous shift of mindset and actions on the part of the would-be submissive female as well as on the part of the would-be dominant husband. Jump ahead in your mind for a moment. If your husband were firmly in control in the Dom role, you would never presume to suggest to him that he do such-and-such. You might express your needs but you would accept that it is entirely up to him whether or not to take any action to address your needs or not.
And so even (and especially) at this delicate budding stage of moving into D/s, I think it's important for the sub to focus on her submission rather than to think about directing her potential Dom's domination.
I recently purchased and have read part of a book called "The Surrendered Wife," by Laura Doyle. I read through the titles on a large bookcase of books at Barnes and Noble and there was nothing on D/s! (Yes, I'm now aware of some of the good D/s books available online.) But this book was there among all the other mainstream books. So while it's not a D/s book, it does present an interesting perspective on how a wife can surrender more and more control to her husband without ever even announcing her intention... just by doing it. And lo and behold, the husband will begin assuming more and more of the control, once it has been really and truly relinquished by the wife. When she steps down from the plate, he must and will step up.
3) It's a trust thing.
We all know this, more in the D/s world than anywhere else. And yet this is my absolute biggest stumbling block in my own marriage. A power exchange means you really truly trust your partner to make the decisions - good decisions for your own growth and for the growth of the relationship. It sounds to me that at this point in time, you do not fully trust your husband to manage your relationship, and with good reason, for he has not really stepped up to the plate. But maybe he does not fully trust you to relinquish the control that you claim you want to relinquish.
In my own marriage, my husband has made it very clear that he does not want the kind of marriage where he makes the decisions. He wants us to be complete equals in decision-making. And frankly, I've realized that is how I feel about the marriage too. (That's why, for us, D/s works best in the bedroom if it happens at all.) I actually don't like my husband very much when he asserts his dominance as we are discussing a decision that needs to be made, for instance a childrearing matter. It seems to me at those times that sometimes he is not necessarily thinking about what is best for our child or for our marriage but is just acting a bit like a bully, wanting to have his own way. At those times I do not want to yield to his control; I want to stand up to him. I frankly can't imagine how it works when a wife yields all control to a husband. That seems a bit too scary to me, even though I read about how freeing it is supposed to be for the sub. But it strikes me as a bit of a gamble and I don't think I'm willing to risk my marriage and my integrity for an experiment in power exchange. Even though submission has beckoned to me in my fantasies for my whole life, when it comes right down to it, I'm pretty balky!!
And so I think the kind of profound trust that must be the foundation of any healthy D/s relationship must be built, bit by bit, and it takes a whole new kind of commitment to open and sensitive communication than a couple might ever have experienced before.
I'm also aware that a sub in a D/s relationship must be willing to be completely transparent. She can have no secrets from her Dom. She must share her thoughts and her actions without holding anything back at all. And that is my downfall, in my marriage. I can't do it. Because I *know* - not just think but know - that if I become completely transparent to my husband, our marriage will collapse. I am very very sad as I write these words. I hate having to keep parts of myself secret from my husband. But I have to. I cannot trust him to forgive my failings. I cannot trust him to stand by me no matter what. And he cannot trust me to be the kind of wife he needs, either. I cannot be the kind of wife he needs. So I hide parts of myself from him and pretend to be the kind of wife he needs. And that is why I can never be his real-life sub.
But for those who are able to, I think it sounds like an absolutely glorious goal and would certainly enrich any marriage, to have that level of openness and trust.
4) We learn from others.
I think it must be very challenging for two people who've not experienced a D/s relationship before to build one together. It can be done, but there will of necessity be a lot of trial and error to find out what works and doesn't work, so both parties must be willing to accept the fits and starts. And even when both parties know what they are doing, there will certainly be rough spots along the way.
But just as you've come to this chatboard to try to learn from others (a very good thing!), your husband should embrace the idea of learning from others, too. Otherwise, if he is learning about domination only from you and from his trial-and-error efforts, it's going to be a very clumsy process. I've read profiles of many Doms and many subs who are willing to share their experiences with others, to act as trainers or mentors. I've also found many sites with advice for those just getting started. I would encourage you and your husband to read some of the commonly recommended books on the lifestyle (I'm sure a number of people would be happy to suggest a reading list)... but I also do think it really helps to have one or more mentors who can respond to the specifics of your situation(s).
In my case, I've also learned a lot about myself and the lifestyle from taking some baby steps into the D/s world outside of my marriage. I know that is not your intent and I am certainly not suggesting it for you. But I would like to share with you a few things I've learned from my extramarital exploration so far, which might possibly be of use to you as you explore D/s in your marriage, such as....
5) Rituals and protocols may seem like gimmicks, but they work.
As I'm sure you know if you've done any reading online at all, in many D/s relationships there are certain rituals and protocols, such as the sub calling her Dom "Sir," and kneeling in his presence. I have no idea if you and your husband have discussed any of the "trappings" of D/s of that sort, or not. I always rolled my eyes about that stuff; it seemed so contrived. I thought: D/s is a state of mind, and people who do that ritualistic stuff are just play-acting at D/s but not really feeling it at their core. If they really felt it, they wouldn't need to put on an act like that.
And the idea of kneeling before my husband or calling him "Sir" would seem beyond laughable to me.
But in my budding D/s relationship with a Dom outside of my marriage, at the end of our second lunch date before we ever met in private, he said to me, "From this moment on, I have no name to you but Sir. And if I ask you a question, the only proper responses are 'Yes Sir,' 'No Sir,' and 'As it pleases you, Sir.'" I giggled as I tried to stammer out, "Yes Sir" in response. It seemed so totally pompous and silly! And yet now... I actually find myself shuddering in submission as I type these words. It did create in me a more submissive mindset. It stripped away some of my own control over myself and it stripped away some of my pridefulness. It humbled me, and I needed humbling if I were going to open myself up to submissiveness.
He also told me at that time that he would expect me to kneel before him in private. I thought I would feel equally silly kneeling. But in our first private session, when he told me to kneel and I knelt, it immediately made me feel in a more submissive frame of mind. He didn't keep me there (though many Doms do); it was just a momentary thing. But he did keep me constantly under his control. When I rose to my feet and started to put my arms around him, he said, "Did I say you could touch me?" and all of a sudden I began to understand what it was going to mean to relinquish control to another. Later on after I returned to the room from a bathroom break (which had sort of pulled me out of my submissive mindset), as I approached him he said to me, "Whenever you return to me, you'll kneel," and as I knelt, instantly I felt the submissiveness re-enter me. It put me immediately back into the proper mindset. And so I had a newfound appreciation for what had seemed like pretentions until that point.
I've asked a female sub friend of mine (divorced, soon to move in with her Dom boyfriend with her three children) if she kneels before him in the presence of her children, and she says she does, but she is subtle about it. For instance, if he is sitting on a couch, she will sit or kneel at his feet in such a way that they both know it is a sign of her submission but her children just think she feels like lounging on the floor. She calls him Sir in their presence too but refers to him by name when mentioning him to them outside of his presence.
I know there must be plenty of D/s relationships that steer clear of rituals and protocols, but I'm suggesting that if you do want to jumpstart a new kind of mindset and dynamic between you, there really is a power in these tools of the trade.
6) We learn from assignments.
I've had some absurd and pointless assignments from would-be Doms... assignments are not always the route to greater submission. But in the right hands, assignments can be amazingly effective in keeping one aware of one's submission and deepening the sense of submission. Sometimes when I've not been given an assignment I've supplied assignments of my own, but of course it's best when they are given by a Dom to the sub and when they are discussed afterwards.
An assignment can be as simple as being told to wear (or not wear) a specific undergarment in a specific way or can involve hours of reflective writing. There can be ongoing rules which might feel like a never-ending assignment. For instance, many subs are stripped of control over when and how to touch themselves; they must always ask permission and sometimes it will be denied, or sometimes it may be ordered (as an assignment), with very specific conditions specified.
One of the things a sub learns from assignments is obedience. And of course assignments keep her mindful of her submission and her wish to please her Dom. Through assignments a Dom can exert his control even when he is not physically present. Assignments can also help a sub learn more about herself.
My Dom worked out a weekly schedule for me to ensure that there would be a proper balance between my work life, my family life, some "down time" for myself, and time for D/s assignments and activities. And the fascinating thing about having a schedule is that following the schedule itself is an act of submission to him, so in that sense it begins to feel as if I am now leading my life in submission to him, even as I continue to work on a healthier relationship with my husband, and everything else in my life. And when I slip up from my schedule, I worry that he will be disappointed in me, and that helps to keep me on track in a way that I never could for my own sake. But I also enjoy the peace of mind of knowing that on certain days of the week at certain times I will drop everything to do an assignment for him, because that is part of my schedule. But writing about my day (including if I slipped up on my schedule, and why) is also part of my assignments for him. And writing in detail about every assignment afterwards (how I felt physically and emotionally, etc.) is part of each assignment.
7) Asking for permission is a big part of submission.
Even if your husband does not take the reins, if you begin asking for his permission to do things, you are giving him some control over you in that act. And realizing that you must ask permission can begin to create the right sort of submissive mindset and break you free from the current mindset you've tended to be in, of managing a large part of the relationship.
For instance, I asked my Dom's permission to write on this thread before doing so. I gave him a brief idea of why I was interested and what I hoped I could contribute and said it would involve discussing some elements of my marriage and my relationship with him. He gave me permission as long as I did not divulge any personal information (of course) while assuring me that he knew he could trust me in that. And it makes me feel happy inside to know that I asked and received his permission to write this message and that he trusted me to write it without needing to preview it first. It's a nice blend of feeling submissive while having my integrity respected as well.
In some D/s relationships (many? most?), the sub must ask permission even to leave the room. You'll find out what enhances your feelings of power exchange and what just seems annoying! But when you ask for permission to do things, this is one way in which you are empowering (and in your case, encouraging) your Dom to take control.
Just as assignments serve to remind a sub of her submission, perhaps in your case, asking for permission to do things you've never needed permission for before will also serve to remind your husband of his domination!
8) Sometimes we can feel freer with a near-stranger than a loved one.
I read the profile of a married Dom with a sub wife - they were looking for play partners. He said that even though they love each other dearly and enjoy D/s together, for some reason she cannot submit fully to him but can submit more fully to other Doms, and he cannot dominate her fully as he can dominate other subs. (In their particular case, he was a bit of a sadist and wished no physical harm on his wife but would not hesitate to administer more pain to another sub.)
In my case, I can relinquish control to my new Dom because it's not 24/7 and because I know I have control over other parts of my life. That makes the experience of relinquishing control to him feel like a special treat and I can do it wholeheartedly and without reservation. But just as I think I cannot submit fully to my own husband, I do not believe I could submit fully to my Dom either, if we were together all the time. I know some can and perhaps in a different D/s relationship I could, but I'm glad even to be able to submit to this extent, for I met several other Doms one time each and could not feel submissive at all (or barely at all). It's one thing to cherish the idea of submission deep inside ourselves but there really are lots of practical difficulties! It's wonderfully exciting... but for me, at any rate, part of the excitement is the contrasts between having control over some aspects of my life and relinquishing control over other aspects. If I relinquished control over everything..... hmmmm, for me, that would just be too much submission. But it *is* very freeing and exciting to relinquish control when I am in the presence of my Dom and when I am doing assignments.
One Dom I used to talk with pointed out that for those who enter into a 24/7 power exchange, in order to continue getting the same thrill from it, they need to keep going deeper and deeper into it. A slave, for instance, needs to go deeper and deeper into her slavery. But for those who manage to swing back and forth between vanilla and D/s in the same relationship, or for those who have one relationship for vanilla and one for D/s, the contrasts can help keep everything fresh.
In my case, the trust thing figures in, too. I can put myself in the hands of my Dom in large part because he is very experienced as a Dom and I trust that he knows what he is doing and that he knows how to guide me effectively on my journey into deeper submission. I also trust that he is deeply committed to D/s and won't give up on me or us when we encounter rough spots. And so I can tell him about my occasional hesitations without fear that he will bail out on me but with the trust that he will help me work through things and that he will use my input to make adjustments to the dynamics so that they are increasingly satisfying for both of us. I also find comfort in knowing that I've been "claimed" and have accepted the claiming and therefore must make the most of it without bailing out, myself. But I also find comfort in knowing that if it ceases to be fun and satisfying, I do have the option of bailing out (and so does he). When one begins to explore D/s inside an established marriage, the pre-existing marital commitment of course colors everything that goes on in the D/s aspect of the relationship, and this may or may not be freeing.
9) It's a negotiation.
A D/s relationship - like any relationship - represents an ongoing negotiation between two people. You and your husband are beginning to renegotiate the whole dynamic of your marriage. That's huge!!! It's very exciting. I'm sure the rewards will be great. That doesn't mean it will necessarily be smooth or easy. You two are just beginning your negotiation. The whole thing will be a learning experience and if you view it that way and look forward to learning from the good things as well as the rough spots, that will be a healthy way to get started.
I would like to close this far-too-long post with three quotes I've recently found on BDSM sites that spoke to me and that I think should guide all of us in our D/s explorations:
*** Treating your partner with respect means treating your partner the way she wants to be treated--even if that means she wants you to treat her like a dirty little minx sometimes. ***
*** By definition, when you explore, you don't always know what you'll find! If you discover something that you don't like, or that didn't go the way you expected, it's okay; you've learned from it, and now you have greater knowledge about how to please yourself and your partner. ***
*** You have the right to have input in a relationship. You are an active partner in any relationship you enter and have every right to contribute to it. You are submissive, not passive. A relationship that doesn't include your needs, thoughts, hopes and desires is not one you should be in to begin with. This applies to friendships, partnerships and D/s relationships. ***
And finally, in the words of one of the first Doms I began corresponding with last September:
"You cannot throw your own party."
That has been my problem in my marriage. It doesn't feel much like submission if I need to tell my husband how to control me. But you have the advantage that your husband is interested in going on this journey with you. He is going to need to start taking a more active leadership role... and you are going to need to let him, even as you gently facilitate his leadership. It's not going to be D/s if you throw the party and he just "shows up."
Lots of luck and good wishes to you! I hope you will continue to share with us about your journey and ask questions whenever you feel like it! And as your journey progresses, if you will share some of your successes, that will likely be an inspiration to those of us who are continuing to struggle with the very questions you are asking.
Kitten
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