RE: Tonight's Opportunity For a New Party to be Born (Full Version)

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awmslave -> RE: Tonight's Opportunity For a New Party to be Born (9/10/2009 8:47:20 PM)

quote:

Why would you think that the employer involvement makes the purchase "inefficient"? The employer is only contributing to paying the premium.


Yes, this way it is true, the efficiency is not an issue. Although, it increases the general cost of insurance as it puts the insurance providers with a big pool of guaranteed clients into a monopoly position. For the same reason it increases  the cost of health services. If the health insurers have to compete for single clients they would need to slim their profits to be competitive. Also they would force the medical providers to cut cost and salaries.
So, I still do not favor mandatory workplace involvement. Also, I would open the US market to foreign drugs. The last would bring down the cost of medicine. It would be useful perhaps to create 1Hm foreign doctors/nurses visa that would suppress wages in medical field (now they are the highest in the World). In this way the health-care may become affordable for most.




tazzygirl -> RE: Tonight's Opportunity For a New Party to be Born (9/10/2009 8:50:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

quote:

Why would you think that the employer involvement makes the purchase "inefficient"? The employer is only contributing to paying the premium.


Yes, this way it is true, the efficiency is not an issue. Although, it increases the general cost of insurance as it puts the insurance providers with a big pool of guaranteed clients into a monopoly position. For the same reason it increases  the cost of health services. If the health insurers have to compete for single clients they would need to slim their profits to be competitive. Also they would force the medical providers to cut cost and salaries.
So, I still do not favor mandatory workplace involvement. Also, I would open the US market to foreign drugs. The last would bring down the cost of medicine. It would be useful perhaps to create 1Hm foreign doctors/nurses visa that would suppress wages in medical field (now they are the highest in the World). In this way the health-care may become affordable for most.



We have the visas.... but what do you consider high pay for a nurse?




Termyn8or -> RE: Tonight's Opportunity For a New Party to be Born (9/10/2009 9:16:39 PM)

There are a couple of things to iron out.

First of all I don't like the idea of any health care being shoved down my throat. There has to be an out option, but of course only usable under certain certain circumstances. There could also be an added side effect of reducing the tax base slightly as more companies find those loopholes either by being unincorporated or staying a small S. Millions of small businesses do that in this country. Your idea does not take into account a few factors, and while they don't scrap the whole idea, they must be resolved before implementation. At best, it would cause more people to go into the 'temp service" agency business and handle the requirements there. This would encourage competition in a field I believe needs more competition. What I have seen, these people are gouging. Some criteria must be built into this system to encourage the correct result. These companies could do alot better, by offering a lower 'spread' and providing group coverage in lieu of the actual employer doing it, but the actual employer would ultimately pay for it, and of course it follows, the customers, who pay for everything.

Another thing I see as an important point - if you use the force of government in this way, then there is another thing that needs to be addressed. Offshore outsourcing. Without jobs, the whole thing is down the drain. None of what you propose does anything to stimulate any real growth. For years growth in the economy has been tainted by the inclusion of money made via speculation and other off the wall investment options. Even the ones that are not a scam merely push the same pile around, the pile is not growing. We must, if we take this turn, as I see as a turn away from actual freedom, use the government's force in a way to get to the root of the problem. What I would propose is heavy taxation on anything offshored, unless the company responsible can prove certain things. For one they must have made a good faith effort to source the materials domestically. And that's just for starters. Otherwise there is that additional tax.

The problem here is that the necessary exclusions and their requirements would make for a very long bill. It might be easier just to institute some serious tax breaks for companies that provide health insurance, plus a disincentive to avoid paying, such as being required to at least pay the base rate for someone who is unemployed.

Now, as I said, we must provide incentive. This coverage would have to meet certain minimum requirements, just like auto liability to qualify. As people try to chisel each other down, and they will, things should fall into place. It's just that the plan must meet or exceed the requirements, or you pay.

In essence though, what you propose, IMO, exceeds the authority of the government in a few ways. Therefore to get the required results you speak in the loudest voice possible. And we all know what that is. You want to do business here ? Well here's the rules. You want a Mom and Pop convenience store, OK. You want to be a handyman ? You want to pick up dogshit ? This must all be allowed in this country. To do otherwise is a form of tyrrany, no matter what the result or intended result.

T




Alphascendant -> RE: Tonight's Opportunity For a New Party to be Born (9/10/2009 11:58:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicalBoredom

I would consider myself a "liberal" and I agree with all of those points completely.  (except we have to have the FCC to govern, license and enforce the use of radio frequencies but I don't think you object to that part).  Nice post!



Has the music become so boring to regulate it? Radio frequencies regulated? You can regulate yours if you want, but what makes you want to regulate mine? A system to monitor the frequencies but not regulate, give evrybody the right to access a tap to any line. If being unable be honest with your neighbor makes for a shitty neighborhood. Who remembers party lines, when one could pick up a phone and hear their neighbor. REM write a song about that? That might be a good idea for a song. The united states regulates the united nations of regulations. The sie with the best radio station wins. Regulating the air waves has fascism written all over it.

Nice post MNB, how about calling it the liberight party? Liberate. A member of the Liberate party.





CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Tonight's Opportunity For a New Party to be Born (9/11/2009 2:48:52 PM)

If this were to happen, I'd definitely be on board with it... my biggest question, though, is "haven't we already got the capability of doing this through the Libertarian party???" It seems to me these sorts of ideas (not the specifics, but the concepts) were the foundation on which that party was created -- weren't they? Why create another 3rd party when much of what you've proposed is already part of the Libertarian platform, and the rest is mostly practical application of existing Libertarian principles and could feasibly be incorporated in the platform for the upcoming elections?

Calla




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Tonight's Opportunity For a New Party to be Born (9/11/2009 2:53:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alphascendant

quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicalBoredom

I would consider myself a "liberal" and I agree with all of those points completely.  (except we have to have the FCC to govern, license and enforce the use of radio frequencies but I don't think you object to that part).  Nice post!





Has the music become so boring to regulate it? Radio frequencies regulated? You can regulate yours if you want, but what makes you want to regulate mine? A system to monitor the frequencies but not regulate, give evrybody the right to access a tap to any line. If being unable be honest with your neighbor makes for a shitty neighborhood. Who remembers party lines, when one could pick up a phone and hear their neighbor. REM write a song about that? That might be a good idea for a song. The united states regulates the united nations of regulations. The sie with the best radio station wins. Regulating the air waves has fascism written all over it.

Nice post MNB, how about calling it the liberight party? Liberate. A member of the Liberate party.


Unfortunately, what you propose would virtually destroy radio-frequency communication-- I don't know if you remember the days when AM radio stations would occasionally "overlap" one another because one station put out a higher-power signal than another station on a nearby band -- but if you do, you would certainly remember how difficult it was to have any worthwhile communication from either of those stations. If we failed to have -someone- responsible for assigning bandwidth and assuring that stations stayed within their authorized bandwidth, we'd have a heck of a mess on our hands, effectively destroying radio-frequency communication in some pockets, and making it damned near useless in most of the rest.

Dame Calla




MrRodgers -> RE: Tonight's Opportunity For a New Party to be Born (9/11/2009 10:25:49 PM)

Pretty good post. OK, so let's assume you are the leader of said 3rd party, are it pres. nominee and get elected and proposed just this.

The only question...what would you like on your tombstone ?




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