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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/10/2009 2:56:54 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

-FR-

IMO the only viable option for US nationalized health care is to do it like we do minimum wage - pass a Federal law stating the minimums states must incorporate, then each state can decide if they want to do more than that. It's ridiculous to think plans that work in the EU countries/Canada/Britain/AU can work in the US when each of those other nations has the population the size of a single US state.

Pass a minimum coverage law and let the states decide if they want to offer more (and adjust their state taxes accordingly) and make sure that all non-emergency care can only be given in a person's state of residency, and they might have a shot at a decent plan.



Of course, the rest of us just keep forgetting that the usa is 'special' I guess....

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/10/2009 4:02:14 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I feel if we pay GP's salary, then we can bring costs in under control, and quickly. Allow the market place to determine the specialists fees.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/10/2009 4:26:13 AM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Reading through it fast, I think its a great model.  The main goal, afterall, is to treat a patient effectively, with as little cost as possible.  A medical information system in place would make things more transparent and precise, too.  We've been being told all along these things were doable.  We just had too many excuses and dismissal's to consider it.  Some still do.  We shall see.  But yes, I think it's a great model.

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For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/10/2009 6:08:32 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

I will be blunt, as a Norwegian the whole system of suing one another you have going on over in USA make me shake my head in disbelief. I mean once a woman tossed a glass of cola in her boyfriend's face, and then stand and storm off on her high heels and falls and sue the restaurant she was in for her fall. Or a woman who bought a trailer, set in on cruise control and believed it was a auto pilot and then left the wheel and when she crashed as she sued the car company for not telling her cruise control was not an auto pilot.

And in your hospitals, doctors are sued for everything, many do not dare help pepole because for every little mistake, or if something go wrong or even if all go right but the patient is just greedy, then they get sued. I mean yes off course doctors need to be accountable for their actions, but there have to be limits, sometimes the doctor have done everything humanly possible, and it still did not go as one might want.

In Norway there was a case in the newspapers of a doctor who had come to a hurt pedestrian's aid, he saved the man's life but in the process ruined his clothes, later the doctor got a bill from the ungrateful bastard he had saved for repairs to his suit. In USA the doctor could have been sued for all he owned, even if his actions did save the man's life.

I do agree that reducing the opportunities to sue doctors left and right will make health care more cost efficient, the problem is, what about those with no health insurance at all, who just can not pay for it? Is it right for pepole to die because they can not afford basic medicine? I am however skeptical to some of Obama's ideas. Here in Norway we have the health care system he wants. Health care is all but free, paid for by our taxes, however, as a result, we are completely at the mercy of the state when it comes to what health care we get. Several pepole I know have died because they have been refused, wrongly by our great medical system, one of those pepole died. I think there have to be a balance. I think USA should find a way to give health care to the very poor, while at the same time keep their system of privatly owned hospitals and such. For take it from somone who live with it, state own, socialistic health care do not work.

I wish you all well


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Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/10/2009 6:19:27 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Nephandi, while i agree people deserve health care, i personally do not believe its right that everyone focus on UNINSURED pepple while people are going broke or becoming uninsured because they can't pay the premiums being demanded. I know people aren't going to like hearing this but i believe we should be focusing on reducing cost of premiums for those PAYING for health insurance and then focusing on the uninsured. Yes, some of us have health insurance and are barely scraping by due to what we have to pay not only for OUR health insurance but the addition of family members. The uninsured need to get covered yes, but i don't see their issues being MORE important that reducing the expense people are already paying and in many ways its irritating me because it seems these people are MORE important than those of us paying sky high premiums and sacrificing to maintain health insurance. It just seems people believe the uninsured are the most important, sorry i disagree and am waiting for the working middle class who are becoming the poor or letting insurance lapse because they get trapped in paying high insurance premiums and outrageous deductibles.

One thing i do agree with is getting minors covered and the elderly. Even this would probably help even those who are covered by insurance.

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/10/2009 8:27:53 AM   
DedicatedDom40


Posts: 350
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To do this nationwide, serious tort reform has to be in the mix. Doctors spend billions per year in tests that may or may not be needed. The do them to protect their ass.




Medical practioners themselves are a big reason tort is the problem that it is. Their role in the problem just may exceed the role of the ambulance chasing lawyers.

In most professions where the safety of the public is involved, Federal regulations exist that limit the number of hours that employees can work as a deterrent to fatigue mistakes. 'Hours of Service' regulations apply to truck drivers, railroad engineers, and airline pilots to enhance safety to the public by eliminating fatigued worker scenarios. The concept of 'working a double shift' is illegal in these professions where the safety of the public is at risk. I'm sure airline pilots would love to make twice as much money flying twice as many hours, but thankfully, for the safety of 300 passengers aboard a plane, Federal regulations say no-can-do.

So explain to me why your healthcare provider, whose profession also has a life and death impact on public safety, works without regulations on hours of service or patient volume?

Over 90% of medical tort is the result of operating room mistakes due to fatigue. Yet, the healthcare practitioner (and the industry) will not accept any form of Hours of Service regulation because it cuts into their personal income. They want to carry the biggest patient load possible regardless of the negative impact on public safety. The system is DESIGNED to maximize practitioner income under fatigue conditions, and simply pay off the people harmed by fatigue mistakes. The resulting higher malpractice rates are passed on to you, the insured medical customer.

Healthcare is the only industry sensitive to public safety that rejects Hours of Service regulation, and not surprisingly, it is the only industry with a crippling tort problem and an out-of-control cost problem. Nobody in the industry wants to accept regulation, because it means money out of the pockets of the practitioner. Nobody ever discusses how the industry itself creates the bulk of its tort problem though greed of the practitioner. And yet, here we are, celebrating the greed of the practitioner as a key ingredient in the argument as to why our present system is better and more "cutting edge", thereby attracting practitioners from socialized systems who want to make more money here. "Cutting edge" comes at what cost?

The 'rights' of 300 airline passengers to safely make it back onto the ground comes ahead of the 'right' of the pilot to double his income. Yet in medicine, the 'right' of the doctor to double his income comes ahead of the 'right' of the patient to make it off the operating table alive. This problem is not solved until the people in the medical profession reverse that priority, and get back to their altruistic roots as a healer. Practitioners may not like the negative financial fallout from that, but I'm sure the pilot shares their misery. Their 'club' already has their own jackets made. They give you one upon joining.



(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/10/2009 9:34:52 AM   
mcbride


Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
It's ridiculous to think plans that work in the EU countries/Canada/Britain/AU can work in the US when each of those other nations has the population the size of a single US state.


Ridiculous?  Why is that?

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/10/2009 9:57:00 AM   
mcbride


Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline 		Ah, the Max Baucus plan.  Quite a read.  And, more to the point, a shining example of why Americans won't be allowed to have access to decent health care.

"Funny story. Baucus and his staff forgot to delete the name of the author of the plan from the Acrobat version of the document. Whoops!"

If you're curious what sort of health care Senator Baucus and his benefactors would like you to accept, and who wrote it, why, have a read.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/10/2009 1:12:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		FR

The reason why the uninsured are such a prominent point in health care issues is because they drive up the costs for those who do pay insurance. Not only on the end of medicine.. but at the other end when you pay your insurance premiums.

Its a two sided sword, these uninsured, and any plan that shuffles them into the background would only be offering a bandaid to a gaping wound.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mcbride)
Profile   Post #: 29
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