Humiliation a negative thing because of your past

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CollaredLisa -> Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 1:30:52 PM)
Didn't want to hijack the "Humiliation = Edge Play?" thread, so I started my own. I've been wondering how many of you have a problem with humiliation (both physical and verbal) due to past experience? The topic came up between my Master and me a few days ago when he said that I don't seem to enjoy it a lot and then gave a few examples like namecalling or doing like little things while outside and stuff. Well, I reacted in a pretty negative way, especially when he gave examples - I have been bullied basically all my life, started in primary school and only sort of ended when I stopped school for a while and these sorts of things just... well, I guess "make me go to a bad place" or something. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of problems?

DavanKael -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 1:39:57 PM)
In-as-much as I do not want abusive, degradatory things from when I was a minor creeping into my adult relationships, I would say that 'past' has something to do with not liking humiliation. More to the point, though, is the determination to lift up my partner(s)/be uplifted by my partner(s) as part of my approach to life relationships and I do not believe that for me and mine, humiliation has a place. Davan

HeavansKeeper -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 1:58:15 PM)
My girl has had a similarly tough life in certain respects. She's very sensitive to humiliation. It's a double edged sword for her. The "positive" or desired effects appear quickly and fiercely, but afterward considerable aftercare is necessary. There was a time that, due to time constraints, aftercare was being ignored. It made her very unhappy. Humiliation is powerful. A few small changes in the words can be the difference between aroused and suicidal. Don't feel bad if it's something you don't wish to explore. Like swinging, it's simply not for everyone. One side note, humiliation is a vague word. When used as a singular term it encompasses many acts some would not consider humiliating. Puppy roleplay, submissive posing, accepting orders without question (TPE). While its clear you do not enjoy physical and verbal degradation, there are other aspects of being humbled you may enjoy. Being a footrest is humiliating, but also has a warm, loving, Normal Rockwellesque feel. I suggest viewing "humiliation" as "being humbled into your place". This distinction removes many of the ruthless, raunchy, insulting aspects associated with being humiliated. Some examples of being humbled into your place: Eating from a bowl on the ground next to the table. Having your clothing picked out for you. Being used as a mobile post-it note. Use a tin lunch box as a purse. Learn songs and sing on command. Cuddle with your head below his waist. Kneel and wait for him to finish a shower. All of these, in some capacity, can be viewed as humiliating. Humiliation does not require your neighbor writing "SLUT" on your ass with her lipstick while she laughs with your master. It can be fun, and still serve the purpose.

sexisubi -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 1:59:39 PM)
a story it just reminded me, so i was exploring myself and trying to figure out what i liked i didnt like so i had just started doing things with my X, and he and i hadnt actually been given any kind of title yet. so we had a conversation in the car to his house about possibly starting a relationship and being together but he didnt really give me an answer. in the same car ride we then got into the talk about humilation and putting someone down when they were doing things and i said sure lets try it. while we did it one of the things he said (right after that conversation about starting a relationship) you mean nothing to me... i started crying i was like what the hell? after that he said i couldnt handle it.. but after that relationship with someone else and i was able to handle it fine. its about the setup i guess. for the most part it wasnt my thing either way, i dont know, not that i mind it, but i just dont care if its done. it just kind of cross the line to abusive i guess well if youre not careful, and thats the last thing i want or need, and this is talking about just verbal humiliation. after awhile when i get into the topic of kink, i actually ask lots of questions to doms online that help me find out if they are the abusive type or if they are just someone looking for the obedient type, and are generally nice people. one of the questions is about humilation, in different scenarios.

porcelaine -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 2:18:09 PM)
i believe it is important when utilizing that tactic to reinforce the words with something positive. you're essentially trying to change the tape in her head and that won't happen until you put something affirming in its place. porcelaine

AlexandraLynch -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 2:18:39 PM)
Even as a dominant, giving specific sorts of verbal humiliation can be problematic for me. There are people in my past who I have worked long and hard not to become, and I shall not become them, not even for the sake of the pleasure of someone I love.

RavenMuse -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 2:26:55 PM)
Like may things humiliation is a broad church with many different aspects. The trick is knowing your girl well enough to avoid harmful responses whilst enjoying arousing her and/or making her stronger by getting her to face and get through things she thought she was to shy to get through (Only to find she has had a rather positive experience at the end of it, even if she wished the ground would open up and swallow her at the time),

DesFIP -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 2:32:29 PM)
Not a past issue for me. The problem is that if he says it, I believe it. So if he says I'm a slut, I don't redefine it to mean what people here mean by it meaning without shame sexually with a cherished partner. What comes up is the dictionary type definition of a woman without any judgment who has sex with anyone who wants her. I'm not that by any means, at 54 you can count my sexual partners on the fingers of both hands with a couple left over. But he can't say to me that a) he appreciates I'm choosy over who I will be with and at the same time b)I am the opposite of a. One of those two must be a lie. And what I believe is the worst one, not the best. Beyond that, if you will lie to me here, where else are you lying and about what? Plus as Davan said, I prefer my relationships to be positive, not negative. Re HK's list. I would object to eating from a bowl on the floor. I'd also wind up going hungry because if it's on the floor the dog thinks it's his but that's another issue. If he wanted to use me as a post it note, I would think less of him. Like owning a lamberghini and putting lumber in it, the wrong tool for the job. The others? No problem except I'd need a cushion for my knees in the bathroom. And why is having your clothes picked out humiliating? I love it when he does it. Means he's taking time out of his busy day to pay attention to me and that he'll be imagining me in that outfit during his breaks. That's a good thing here.

stillholdson -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 4:04:19 PM)
I had a rough life and pulled myself out of it. I'm proud of the person I have become. A few years ago humiliation would have bothered me immensely. Now I find it is something that I enjoy but myself esteem is much better than it was eons ago.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 4:13:40 PM)
Yes, set up and timing, are important, because what's being said may not hurt at all or upset at all but if it was said at the wrong time in the wrong conversation and gave the person the wrong idea, then it could be very hurtful. quote: ORIGINAL: sexisubi a story it just reminded me, so i was exploring myself and trying to figure out what i liked i didnt like so i had just started doing things with my X, and he and i hadnt actually been given any kind of title yet. so we had a conversation in the car to his house about possibly starting a relationship and being together but he didnt really give me an answer. in the same car ride we then got into the talk about humilation and putting someone down when they were doing things and i said sure lets try it. while we did it one of the things he said (right after that conversation about starting a relationship) you mean nothing to me... i started crying i was like what the hell? after that he said i couldnt handle it.. but after that relationship with someone else and i was able to handle it fine. its about the setup i guess. for the most part it wasnt my thing either way, i dont know, not that i mind it, but i just dont care if its done. it just kind of cross the line to abusive i guess well if youre not careful, and thats the last thing i want or need, and this is talking about just verbal humiliation. after awhile when i get into the topic of kink, i actually ask lots of questions to doms online that help me find out if they are the abusive type or if they are just someone looking for the obedient type, and are generally nice people. one of the questions is about humilation, in different scenarios.

silkncarol -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 4:17:47 PM)
I haven't had any past experiences that i would consider a negative to humiliation...as long as it is only humiliation and not degradation. I haven't worked all these years to have a high healthy self esteem to let someone knock it down for their own sick amusements. A dominant who used degradation on a regular basis or one who tried it without really knowing me as a person would raise major red flags to me...

quietlycontent -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 4:55:07 PM)
I think the trick is to remember that its just acting. When your Master/Mistress calls you a useless fat whore, or something similar they are only acting. They don't actually mean it, and if they do? you should really give serious thought to whether they are the one for you.

MaamJay -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 9:15:14 PM)
I am very wary about humiliation and I cross-examine any potential sub who says they like humiliation very thoroughly. I have found that what people say is "humiliating to them" varies widely! It includes some things that I also think are humiliating (eg name calling) and others that I think are loving and intimate (eg golden showers) ... and some that I consider downright degrading (eg having their nose rubbed in shit) and would be a hard limit of Mine as a Domme! There's also a lot of overlap between humiliation and exhibitionism in many people's minds, simply because doing the same act in private and in public (or where there's just the merest chance someone could see you) is a huge difference for many people. So where this sort of play is concerned, communication is even more important than in some other forms. I have found some people who can have negative feelings about some forms of play triggered by events of the past ... humiliation linked to bullying would just be one of them. Another eg would be not doing knife play (or even a mind-fuck dummy knife play) with someone who has been robbed and held at knife point for real. Or putting an arachnophobe into a shed full of spiders ... or ... well you get My drift. This is why a goodly period of getting to know you time is so important. Maam Jay aka violet[A]

DesFIP -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 9:17:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay Or putting an arachnophobe into a shed full of spiders Maam Jay aka violet[A] Oh look, I've discovered a new hard limit.

MaamJay -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 9:51:39 PM)
grins glad to be of help there des! It's one of the questions I pose to new subs, especially to males who profess to have "no limits" ... and it's amazing how many of them actually hate spiders, snakes, cockroaches, ants, bees ... LOL! Seriously though, this did happen to a young sub we knew, a less than responsible Dom (in our opinion) stripped her of her clothes but for shoes and locked her in a shed full of spiders for several hours, knowing full well she was arachnophobic. He said it was to "cure" her of her stupid fear. It didn't and that, plus other treatment at his hands led to a spell in a hospital. It's one thing for a sub to choose to try to face their fear in the hands of a loving and trusted Dominant who will respect safewords etc if the sub chooses not to go through with it, but that clearly wasn't the case with this sub, as if I remember rightly, this was only the second time they'd met. My blood still boils over it ... Maam Jay aka violet[A]

antipode -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 10:04:30 PM)
quote: Does anyone have any experience with this sort of problems? I invariably boot subs that let their past influence my present. This may sound harsh, but your past is something for you to deal with, and you have no right bringing your past into a relationship with a person who has no influence over your past, and who hasn't caused your past in any way. For me, this type of behaviour is somewhere between lazy and self-indulgent. Nicht?

Acer49 -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/11/2009 10:39:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper My girl has had a similarly tough life in certain respects. She's very sensitive to humiliation. It's a double edged sword for her. The "positive" or desired effects appear quickly and fiercely, but afterward considerable aftercare is necessary. There was a time that, due to time constraints, aftercare was being ignored. It made her very unhappy. Humiliation is powerful. A few small changes in the words can be the difference between aroused and suicidal. Don't feel bad if it's something you don't wish to explore. Like swinging, it's simply not for everyone. One side note, humiliation is a vague word. When used as a singular term it encompasses many acts some would not consider humiliating. Puppy roleplay, submissive posing, accepting orders without question (TPE). While its clear you do not enjoy physical and verbal degradation, there are other aspects of being humbled you may enjoy. Being a footrest is humiliating, but also has a warm, loving, Normal Rockwellesque feel. I suggest viewing "humiliation" as "being humbled into your place". This distinction removes many of the ruthless, raunchy, insulting aspects associated with being humiliated. Some examples of being humbled into your place: Eating from a bowl on the ground next to the table. Having your clothing picked out for you. Being used as a mobile post-it note. Use a tin lunch box as a purse. Learn songs and sing on command. Cuddle with your head below his waist. Kneel and wait for him to finish a shower. All of these, in some capacity, can be viewed as humiliating. Humiliation does not require your neighbor writing "SLUT" on your ass with her lipstick while she laughs with your master. It can be fun, and still serve the purpose. for the speed I will adress each of OP's examples one at a time. Eating from a bowl on the ground next to the table- this activity has no redeeming value and shows poor judgement on the part of a dominant who desires it. Having your clothing picked out for you.- this shows the dominant takes notice and cares about the submissive's appearance Being used as a mobile post-it note.-this shows the dominant lacks intelliegence, if he needs notes, give the submissive a note pad and pen Learn songs and sing on command- this may have value, I could seehere this could be a positive activity, the sub would receive *'s for her abilitiies Kneel and wait for him to finish a shower- so that she may towel hin dry? this is a simple form of service and should not be viewed as anything more or less Cuddle with your head below his waist-For a sub to simply lay one's head in a dominant's lap is an act of intimacy even if that included a "oral act"

IronBear -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/12/2009 12:43:16 AM)
I'd wager that if we all were to be scrupulously honest, there are things in our past even from our childhood days, which are buttons best left unpressed especially in Humiliation Play.

sirjohn666 -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/12/2009 1:01:41 AM)
I feel ultimate humilation which I treat my sub to, is not closing the toilet door, for both !

DarkSteven -> RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past (9/12/2009 3:53:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: antipode I invariably boot subs that let their past influence my present. This may sound harsh, but your past is something for you to deal with, and you have no right bringing your past into a relationship with a person who has no influence over your past, and who hasn't caused your past in any way. For me, this type of behaviour is somewhere between lazy and self-indulgent. Nicht? Suffice it to say that you and I do not agree on this point. I have dealt with subs who have PTSD before, and while I was willing to work with her on some issues, others were just not worth it. I had to pick my battles.

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