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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/12/2009 4:04:10 AM

HeavansKeeper

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I get the feeling I was misunderstood partially.

What I was attempting to provide was a way to view a very vague concept such as humiliation in a more positive light. I gave some examples which "the reasonable man" would find humiliating, humbling. They don't work for everyone, but that's ok. Specific examples were cited to balance some the the (unpublished) examples Lida received. I get the feeling most people define humiliation as borderline abuse. Being told they're stupid, ugly, fat, easy... Being discarded and treated as unimportant - with limited uses all involving providing pleasure with the mouth... That's not how I define humiliation.

Humiliate: To make a person feel foolish by injuring dignity. From the Latin "humiliat" or "make humble".

The seven examples I gave are limited, but a decent cross section. I consider them to qualify as "humiliating acts" because a stranger in our society would feel shamed or embarrassment doing them. Humiliation, by this definition, does not require the individual feel shame and embarrassment. There's no need to squabble over definitions, though. If you change what the word means, then acts that qualify as "humiliating" change as well.

1) Eating food from a bowl: DesFIP's specific case exempts this from being a humbling but intimate act. If my pet were eating from the ground with my two dogs, she would starve to death, too. Under other circumstances, I consider being at someone's feet an act of respect. I take issue with you, Acer. I feel this has many redeeming qualities. It reminds the bottom of their place. It allows them to submit in a physical way outside of love making, and it's just plain cute if you put a puppy ear headband on her. Furthermore, I submit deeming an act to have no value on the fly to reflect poor judgment on a person.

2) Having clothes picked out: It is loving. And it does show interest and care in the bottom/relationship. It might even pass as "not taboo" in mainstream culture. If this list mattered more, I'd strike it. But I still think it's a great example of how to interact in a power exchange without anyone ending up with unwanted compromising pictures of themselves.

3) Being used as a Post-It note: Perhaps post-it was not the right object. I meant "scrap paper". I think it's damned sexy to write on a person. I think it's very cute to jot a note down on a loved one. I submit it exemplifies yet another way in which my bottom can serve me. It also has undertones of D/s, while being very acceptable in public. Might even make her blush. (For the record, the notes I were thinking of were more along the lines of "Milk, Honey, Tea, Smoked Salmon" not "Big Black Rubber Cock, Lube, Call Sandra."

4) Tin lunch box. I didn't see any issue with that, I'm glad we all agree it's a cute, sexy, kind of humiliating idea.

5) Singing on command: Many people love to sing. Many are ashamed. Getting past oneself to serve another is the root of submission. How better than to overcome a silly personal fear for the entertainment of one's dominant half?

6 and 7) Cuddling and kneeling: I know most of you don't see these acts as humiliating at all. That's not in conflict with my post. It's basic submission? Maybe basic submission, when carefully examined, is an act of humbling oneself... Hence, an act of humiliation? We can wrestle over a definition which includes the singing one, but not the kneeling one if somebody wants... But thats not in the spirit of the exercise.

The whole reason for this was to show a lass who's had bad experiences with humiliation that it can be more fun that devastating. The desired traits can be coaxed out without forcing the poor girl to felate strangers. Mild embarrassment, arousal, humbleness, intimacy, growth, surprise, struggle... These are the emotions I think humiliation can elicit.

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/12/2009 11:03:04 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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I would not be so quick to say what is of value and what isn't in another persons relationships or in another persons kinks, it's poor taste in my opinion to say a dom who would want this lacks good judgment, hell we could say the same thing about you lacking good judgment for the kinks YOU enjoy, but that's not our place to say or pass that judgment.

If you have a puppy play kink, then if your sub wants to go along with eating out of a bowl on the floor, then it has value to THEM. I would personally enjoy it myself. I have many fantasies of animal play and would find the concept erotic and hot, I'd also find sitting at his feet and having him hand feed me dinner to be hot too.

I secondly find it very unbecoming in people to sit there and throw aspersions on someone's intelligence for what they may or may not need. Wanting to turn their sub into a walking post it note for play time and possible humiliation doesn't mean you're not intelligent, And if during play someone would want to make their sub a walking sticky note then , He's her dom that's what He'll do.

Your post has a few mis spellings, and some typo's but you say a dom who would maybe want to turn his sub into a walking sticky note during play isn't intelligent, I'd be careful of casting aspersions on other peoples would be intelligence when you have mistakes and typo's in your post.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge others as intelligent or not based on what they like and their kinks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

for the speed I will adress each of OP's examples one at a time.
Eating from a bowl on the ground next to the table- this activity has no redeeming value and shows poor judgement on the part of a dominant who desires it.

Being used as a mobile post-it note.-this shows the dominant lacks intelliegence, if he needs notes, give the submissive a note pad and pen

< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 9/12/2009 11:23:30 AM >

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/12/2009 11:07:27 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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That would be a walk in the park for me, I next to never close the bathroom door, unless we have house guests over.

And in the past I was quite fond of having my partner come with me to the bathroom while I had to pee, and we'd get some fun sexual time out of it too, since I would play with him get him hard and suck on him while I was peeing finish up an then go to my bedroom to finish the hard on I created.

Bathroom play is really fun to me.

But I do realize that some people do have bathroom hang ups, and for them that's be unpleasant and humiliating,

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirjohn666

I feel ultimate humilation which I treat my sub to, is not closing the toilet door, for both !

< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 9/12/2009 11:18:38 AM >

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/12/2009 12:51:22 PM

petmonkey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CollaredLisa

Didn't want to hijack the "Humiliation = Edge Play?" thread, so I started my own.
I've been wondering how many of you have a problem with humiliation (both physical and verbal) due to past experience?

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of problems?

Didn't read every response, just a few. Pardon, please, the wordiness.

In that thread, i related that my distaste for humiliation play was based on experiences i had as an adult. So yes, i have problems with this kind of play because of past experiences. This sort of play was not part of the overtly agreed upon interaction. Unfortunately, i recognized what the situation was a bit late. As i stated there, "ruined", "Sahara", etcetera.

As for childhood experiences, yes again. Ever see the movie "Welcome to the Dollhouse"? The screenwriter/director might as well have cribbed from my childhood diary. So it goes. In general, when someone outside my dynamic does something that i interpret as trying to humiliate me, i first remind myself that they are not the same bullies i knew back then--then i react (hopefully through non-violent communication styles). i see the childhood experiences as reasons why i attempted humiliation play, i found it comfortable merely because of familiarity with the situation, but not why i found said play abhorrent.

Part of why i find humiliation play distasteful is because i find it stale--been there, done that, can get it anywhere, don't even need outside impetus to perform it with a reasonable amount of ease. Another part is that so often in the people i've chosen to associate with, there is another motivation besides the Dom finds it pleasing or amusing and those motivations are extremely ugly, lacking in self-knowledge and, on a few occasions, self-control.* i know just enough about the sort of people i once attracted and was attracted to that it might be best just to leave well enough alone.

It's often redundant to insist i act what some feel is humiliating with me--it isn't particularly humiliating, but instead, joking around. There is no need to insist i wear funny outfits, i'm often wearing several at once if i dressed myself; no need to insist i sing aloud if i'm already cracking my voice along with The Aquabats, no need to insist for humbleness if i'm already practicing it (and i hope to be doing so), no need to insist i dance like a chicken if i'm already busting out that move on the dance floor. As for instances in which i felt humiliated where that wasn't the intended result: not humiliation play, just missing data the Dom didn't previously possess from our conversations together. i revel in making people laugh with me and not if they laugh when i'm crying from hurt feelings.

i possibly could be convinced that for some, bringing this kind of baggage into a relationship might be laziness or self-indulgence (still pondering that word choice). If a person identified this sort of difficulty and made zero effort towards establishing a healthy mindset about themselves and their place in the world, that would be problematic. i will say, effort does not immediately equate to "over it" however. Also, i have found it very rare that once a person realizes this they do absolutely nothing to correct it, no matter how their actions might appear to another. For some, simply acknowledging that they are allowing themselves to be treated poorly is a giant effort in and of itself, let alone figuring out how to go about rectifying the situation. To each their own stride forward, small or large. As for myself, my own efforts include but are not limited to attempting to not participate in situations where i'm treated that way anymore and surrounding myself with people who "lift me up" and i "lift up" in turn (to pinch from Davan). i need good, practical examples of what it is like on the other side of the worthiness line and, happily, have found a few good humans willing to show me through the years. i, like DesFIP, tend to believe what people i feel close to say to me, and if it's paradoxical, due to the way my past experiences have wired my brain, i'll believe the negative. i'll agree with it rather than dismiss it or attempt to prove otherwise. i'm in the process of rewiring my mind and reactions, unfortunately it didn't happen completely yesterday or today--perhaps tomorrow, who knows.

Hopefully, my response did something for you, CollaredLisa.

*i am not implying anyone here lacks self-knowledge, self-control or has extremely ugly personality traits. i'm writing about people i've interacted with in the past, not You.

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/12/2009 1:47:42 PM

sexisubi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

for the speed I will adress each of OP's examples one at a time.
Eating from a bowl on the ground next to the table- this activity has no redeeming value and shows poor judgement on the part of a dominant who desires it.

it may not be redeeming, but it would be considered a type of humiliation, and does not show 'poor judgement on the dom,' it would show either one or both parties enjoy the act most likely, ive heard of this being done with many couples.

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/12/2009 1:53:32 PM

kdsub

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Such a big word…it can mean so many different things. It can also mean different things at different times to different people. My advice is to understand why your Dom humiliates you. If it is at your request then understand what need it fulfills.

Humiliation by the Dom may be just their way to exert domination…if so understand his reason and separate it from your past. Learn to gain joy from it or if something you cannot enjoy then you must renegotiate your relationship.

Many who want humiliation feel they deserve it. Being humiliated reaffirms their position in life. It is not only something desired it is essential for their well-being. This does not mean they like it…but they feel they need it.

So my bottom line…you must separate your past feelings and understand the humiliation by your Dom is different than the humiliation you felt in your past life…Embrace it as a way to build trust respect and love…rather than a way to tear down, punish, and disrespect.

If you can’t do this then TALK to your dom… If he or she will not understand then it is time to move on. There are many Dom’s that will respect your wants and needs.

B

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/12/2009 5:15:39 PM

SaharahEve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CollaredLisa

Didn't want to hijack the "Humiliation = Edge Play?" thread, so I started my own.
I've been wondering how many of you have a problem with humiliation (both physical and verbal) due to past experience?

The topic came up between my Master and me a few days ago when he said that I don't seem to enjoy it a lot and then gave a few examples like namecalling or doing like little things while outside and stuff.
Well, I reacted in a pretty negative way, especially when he gave examples - I have been bullied basically all my life, started in primary school and only sort of ended when I stopped school for a while and these sorts of things just... well, I guess "make me go to a bad place" or something.
Does anyone have any experience with this sort of problems?

Not always; some find humiliation humbling and conducive to slave subservience.

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/12/2009 7:21:24 PM

andreaC

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I was humiliated all my life (for 38 yrs) until i met Master. He has helped me alot in dealing with that humiliation, but it doesnt affect me when he calls me names, for me its not the same. Its not to hurt me like all the others did, the purpose is very different and i know that he loves me. Master is aware that using the belt on me is something that i cant take because of my past, but he will not push it. I can understand your reaction because from time to time i will react negatively, but Master is so patient and understanding and will discuss it with me. By talking with him, its been a therapy for me :). He always tell me that his purpose is not to destroy me, but to rebuilt my self-esteem, confidence.

For me to discuss is the best therapy. I wish you the best of luck

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/13/2009 10:09:04 PM

theRose4U

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

a story it just reminded me,

so i was exploring myself and trying to figure out what i liked i didnt like so i had just started doing things with my X, and he and i hadnt actually been given any kind of title yet. so we had a conversation in the car to his house about possibly starting a relationship and being together but he didnt really give me an answer. in the same car ride we then got into the talk about humilation and putting someone down when they were doing things and i said sure lets try it. while we did it one of the things he said (right after that conversation about starting a relationship) you mean nothing to me... i started crying i was like what the hell? after that he said i couldnt handle it.. but after that relationship with someone else and i was able to handle it fine. its about the setup i guess.

for the most part it wasnt my thing either way, i dont know, not that i mind it, but i just dont care if its done. it just kind of cross the line to abusive i guess well if youre not careful, and thats the last thing i want or need, and this is talking about just verbal humiliation.

after awhile when i get into the topic of kink, i actually ask lots of questions to doms online that help me find out if they are the abusive type or if they are just someone looking for the obedient type, and are generally nice people. one of the questions is about humilation, in different scenarios.

The way I'm reading this he took "lets try this" from 0 to 90 and went straight for an identified hot button. While I personally wouldn't call that abuse, I also wouldn't call it appropriate dominance either. Feeling things out and discovering what people's INTENT linked to certain scenarios is important. What I call humiliation and what the next person mean can be worlds apart. This is one reason that learning your own limits is so important and asking questions is vital.

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/13/2009 10:15:38 PM

theRose4U

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quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of problems?

I invariably boot subs that let their past influence my present. This may sound harsh, but your past is something for you to deal with, and you have no right bringing your past into a relationship with a person who has no influence over your past, and who hasn't caused your past in any way. For me, this type of behaviour is somewhere between lazy and self-indulgent.

Nicht?

Funny, I would say the same thing about a dominant that believes everyone is perfect, will never have fears, or need guidence in becoming something better than they currently are.

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/13/2009 10:29:54 PM

slaveToKnight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of problems?

I invariably boot subs that let their past influence my present. This may sound harsh, but your past is something for you to deal with, and you have no right bringing your past into a relationship with a person who has no influence over your past, and who hasn't caused your past in any way. For me, this type of behaviour is somewhere between lazy and self-indulgent.

Nicht?

You make it sound as though the sub has a conscious choice over whether to "burden" you with their past issues. How can it be lazy and/or self indulgent if it is unconsciously stored pain?

Do you come to every new relationship baggage free also? Really?

For this to stand you must also tell subs to disregard everything good they learnt from previous owners too. Which would be very hard to do.

I think you will have a hard time finding anyone with zero issues.

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/13/2009 11:28:30 PM

sexisubi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

a story it just reminded me,

so i was exploring myself and trying to figure out what i liked i didnt like so i had just started doing things with my X, and he and i hadnt actually been given any kind of title yet. so we had a conversation in the car to his house about possibly starting a relationship and being together but he didnt really give me an answer. in the same car ride we then got into the talk about humilation and putting someone down when they were doing things and i said sure lets try it. while we did it one of the things he said (right after that conversation about starting a relationship) you mean nothing to me... i started crying i was like what the hell? after that he said i couldnt handle it.. but after that relationship with someone else and i was able to handle it fine. its about the setup i guess.

for the most part it wasnt my thing either way, i dont know, not that i mind it, but i just dont care if its done. it just kind of cross the line to abusive i guess well if youre not careful, and thats the last thing i want or need, and this is talking about just verbal humiliation.

after awhile when i get into the topic of kink, i actually ask lots of questions to doms online that help me find out if they are the abusive type or if they are just someone looking for the obedient type, and are generally nice people. one of the questions is about humilation, in different scenarios.

The way I'm reading this he took "lets try this" from 0 to 90 and went straight for an identified hot button. While I personally wouldn't call that abuse, I also wouldn't call it appropriate dominance either. Feeling things out and discovering what people's INTENT linked to certain scenarios is important. What I call humiliation and what the next person mean can be worlds apart. This is one reason that learning your own limits is so important and asking questions is vital.

'

haha oh god no, that wasnt abuse i was saying there are people that do verbal abuse others and i ask lots of questions to make sure they arent the type, and its casual conversation and reading between the lines. my x was not abusive at all he was a good person and we are still friends we just didnt work together.

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/14/2009 11:10:01 PM

RealSub58

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Nice topic Lisa,
Disclaimer: I haven't read responses.
In the daily long emails for 2 months getting to know each other, he picked up on the "problem" with me intuitively.
Being a man of his word, "I will push you through...." I am no longer psychologically unable to be smacked in the face. As a matter of fact, I have grown to enjoy it if that is what HE wants to do.
I don't think I could tolerate it with another.

< Message edited by RealSub58 -- 9/14/2009 11:11:17 PM >

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RE: Humiliation a negative thing because of your past - 9/15/2009 2:17:38 PM

NearlyAcquiesced

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*fast reply*

There are key words that are a no go for me regardless - stupid, being one of them. Then again, I'm not big on humiliation, but I'm not supposed to like it.

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