GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/11/2009 9:56:42 PM)

I'm thinking the predictions of the Republicans taking Congress in 2010 may be a bit premature.



GOP 'cranks' taking over?
Republicans worry party becoming more known for pettiness.


Joe Wilson’s outburst Wednesday night earned more than a personal rebuke from the president and a dagger-eyed gasp from the speaker of the House; it drew winces from Republicans worried that their party is becoming known less for the power of its ideals and more for the pettiness of its vitriol.


“Neither party has an exclusive on wack jobs,” says Republican media consultant Mark McKinnon. “Unfortunately, right now the Democrats generally get defined by President Obama, and Republicans, who have no clear leadership, get defined by crackpots — and then they begin to define the Republican Party in the mind of the general public.”


Turn on the TV, and you see what he means.


Here’s Orly Taitz, insisting that the commander in chief was born in Kenya. There’s a flock of angry protesters chanting “Just say no!” and carrying signs depicting a Democratic congressman with devil’s horns. Former GOP vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin warns darkly that Obama is planning “death panels” for senior citizens. Georgia Rep. Paul Broun equates the president’s plans with “Nazi” policies. Ohio Rep. Jean Schmidt — last heard calling John Murtha a “coward” — tells a birther: “I agree with you, but the courts don’t.”


And then, in the midst of all the catcalls, hand-held signs and “I’m not listening” BlackBerrying, Wilson interrupts Obama’s address to a joint session of Congress by shouting, “You lie!”


.......Brian Jones, a former communications director for the Republican National Committee, finds it frustrating when lawmakers like Wilson hijack the party’s public persona.


.......“As someone who is center-right, it does make you cringe,” says Jones. For example, he says, “the notion of certain parents not sending their kids to school because they don’t want their kids being exposed to the propaganda of the president — to me that’s absurd.


.....The Wilson incident was “certainly unfortunate,” said Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.), but “I don’t see it as any definition of our party,” he said.


....And while House Minority Leader John Boehner said Thursday that he was glad Wilson had apologized for his outburst, he seemed to forgive the impulse behind the outburst, noting that passions over the health care debate are running high: “Don’t underestimate the amount of emotion that people are feeling,” he warned at a Capitol news conference.


.......Indeed, both Cantor and Boehner behaved Thursday like parents who know they must reprimand a child whose misbehavior has secretly delighted them — later in the day, both could be found praising the efforts of hundreds of conservative activists assembled outside the Capitol, who several times chanted “You lie!” en masse, openly rallying around the very incident their leadership had supposedly disavowed.


Longtime GOP strategist John Weaver said the Wilson incident isn’t a “huge deal” by itself, but “taken together with what’s happened over the last eight years, it’s symptomatic of what our problem is.”


“We do have structural, demographic issues we’re not addressing,” he said. “But we also have tone problems. We could have the best policy ideas in the world, but we can’t get anybody to buy them if our salespeople are angry. Nobody wants to hang out with a bunch of cranks.”











SpinnerofTales -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/11/2009 10:55:07 PM)

A timely and valid article, Rule. I have said more than a once that while people may be liking Obama less, they aren't liking the republicans more. I believe that the republicans function best when they have a clear leader to keep their house in order. Reagan was such a leader. To an extent Bush was as well, until his unpopularity caused the republicans to put as much distance between themselves and him as possible without actually emigrating.  This, by the way, is no indictment to the Republicans. Show me a Democrat with an equally low approval rating and I'll show you a very lonely Democrat.

The Democratic party suffered from this for a number of years themselves. Gore never galvanized the party the way Clinton did. Kerry might as well have had campaign buttons printed up saying "At least I'm not Bush." Demcrats, however, seem to have a bit higher tolerance for a little intra party anarchy. Conservatives, by their nature, seem to prefer things slow, dependable with no sudden moves. Again, this is neither universal nor a condemnation. A tried and true leader in a well defined hierarchy just seems to work better for them.

Now, the republican party is a very rudderless ship. Just as Democrats were perceived as the "Tax and spend" party for many years, the Republicans are perceived as the "Tax and give it to the rich" party. Another of their strong points, national defense, has been gravely weakened by the perception that Bush lied more than the usual politician about his reasons for entering Iraq. (It might be noted that the big reason this backfired is not the lies, but the fact that the war dragged on too long. If, as Bush once promised, it was three months and out, things would be very different. Since Vietnam, Americans seem to have lost their taste for long wars. Greneda, Panama and Kuwait were all rather popular wars.)

Also, it seems that the Republican party feels more of a need to pander to it's far right wing than the Democrats do. Part of this might be their strong reliance on the fundamentalist Christian right wing. While Democratic extremists might grumble, they won't desert the party and see a Republican win. The Christian right, for example, would desert the Republican party if their agenda wasn't followed. They might not vote for the Democrat but they certainly wouldn't stay with a Republican. One of the reasons for the disastrous choice of Sarah Palin for vice president was that she was right to life. Sen. Leiberman, McCain's preferred choice, would have played far better with the centerists and independents but Lieberman was pro choice. There is no way the far right is going to accept a pro choice vice president.
This keeps the republican party busy keeping the fringe happy while losing the center. That's a bad combination.

So, bereft of a strong leader, new ideas to rebrand their image and a clear vision of how to proceed forward, the nuts are becoming the archetype of the party. If they are to have any chance of regaining  political power, they are going to have to do more than just stand around hoping for an "anybody but Obama" victory. They are going to have to get their house (and senators) in order and change the perceptions that the fringe kooks are running the show.





tazzygirl -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 12:16:04 AM)

There is a Joe Wilson who is seeking a judicial election that is being directly affected by the "shouting" one.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/59064707.html

(Joe) Wilson opened his nonpartisan campaign for a vacant seat on the Snohomish County Superior Court bench Thursday, the day after his 49th birthday — and also the day after Republican U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson gained notoriety by blurting out "you lie" during Obama's health care address to Congress.

Despite the five-term congressman's subsequent apology, the judicial candidate's page on the social networking Web site Facebook.com has been deluged with angry posts, campaign manager Jennifer Rinaldi said Friday.

Initially, "it was quite funny," Rinaldi said. "Joe was, like, `Look at all those people who are interested in my campaign.' "

Campaign workers have had to scramble to remove all the 200 or more misdirected posts, "starting with the ones with obscenities," she added.

Practically everyone who mistook candidate Wilson, an Everett native whose father was a judge on the same bench, for the congressional heckler has been from outside the state, "from back east to Alaska," Wilson said.

During a campaign for the bench last fall, he said, he encountered former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, known for his criticism of the Bush administration's prewar intelligence on Iraq. After that criticism, the identity of the ambassador's wife, Valerie Plame, as a CIA operative was leaked, ending her career with the spy agency.

Any confusion then did Wilson the candidate little good, but he said publicity over the mixup with the congressman has given his current campaign a boost just from heightened exposure.

"I think it's good," he said. "It's interesting to see all this concern about civility in politics, especially in this kind of a race, where you expect there to be plenty of civility anyway."






rulemylife -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 7:15:18 AM)

While Joe Wilson was part of this article I really wasn't trying to create another debate about him.

Rather, the general, nasty tone that has taken over the GOP and the fact some Republican strategists are starting to recognize the damage it is causing to the party.




mnottertail -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 7:19:59 AM)

Newt Gingrich and Al Sharpton are going on the road together regarding Education Reform....

Interesting, to say the least.

Ron




SpinnerofTales -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 7:23:01 AM)

quote:

Newt Gingrich and Al Sharpton are going on the road together regarding Education Reform.... ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Newt Gingrich and Al Sharpton are going on the road together regarding Education Reform....

Interesting, to say the least.



I am beginning to notice an every increasing similarity between politics and pro wrestling. We may well be heading for the USAWWE




Sanity -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 7:36:19 AM)


Pettiness: Using the word "teabagging" to describe people who oppose deficit spending.

Pettiness.




TheHeretic -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 7:46:54 AM)

Blah.  Blah blah.  Blah blah blah?  Looks like a columnist had a deadline.  'The Republicans are dead forever' got used up, so now we get this empty bag.

Ain't it gonna be ironic as hell if that classless stunt by a South Carolinian I've never heard of before winds up shaming the Congress into actually protecting the citizens they are supposed to represent?

"Cranks" are dominating debate on the Republican side???  News flash:  the "cranks" are the leadership for the Dems.




SpinnerofTales -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 8:42:20 AM)

quote:

Pettiness: Using the word "teabagging" to describe people who oppose deficit spending.

Pettiness. ]ORIGINAL: Sanity




It's not pettiness. There are just things too good to pass up. I can assure you that if anyone, no matter what the side of any issue they represent, threw teabags, I'd call them teabaggers. Perception wise, this could all have been avoided if they had thrown tea (it would have looked like confetti) or if they had symbolic crates of tea that they threw into water to recreate the first Boston Tea Party or any number of things. There are some setups too good not to take advantage of. For goodness sake, lighten up.

What I do take great delight in is the fact that these "patriotic and concerned Americans who have taken a stand against deficit spending" (is that better) are being given the same rights, privileges and opportunity to be heard as other groups such as Pro-Choice (charmingly referred to by opponents as "baby killers"), civil rights activists (known as "reverse racists" or "affirmative action liberals by their opponents) and gay rights supporters (often referred to by their opponents as ....well we know what they're called).

The beauty of this is two fold. One, I am a tremendous proponent of free speech. Such demonstrations, no matter what the cause, is a source of health for this country. It gives people a chance to be heard, present platforms and blow off steam in a non-violent and non destructive way. It also shows  the current "we conservatives aren't allowed to present our opinions because the big, mean democrats are trying to take away our first amendment rights" diatribe as the nonsense it always was.

May I suggest you join me in celebrating a clear and beneficial demonstration of Free Speech in action and stop getting bent out of shape if a little humor is injected into the discussion? Humor is as much a form of free speech as throwing teabags.   




SpinnerofTales -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 8:44:50 AM)

quote:

Blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah? Looks like a columnist had a deadline. 'The Republicans are dead forever' got used up, so now we get this empty bag.

Ain't it gonna be ironic as hell if that classless stunt by a South Carolinian I've never heard of before winds up shaming the Congress into actually protecting the citizens they are supposed to represent?

"Cranks" are dominating debate on the Republican side??? News flash: the "cranks" are the leadership for the Dems. ORIGINAL: TheHeretic



That's right, Heritic. Deny anything is wrong with your party of choice. Take any criticism or thought on how current errors and weaknesses can be fixed. Keep up with the "my party is so much better than your party" line.

People like you are a better friend to the Democrats than people like me.





rulemylife -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 8:51:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Pettiness: Using the word "teabagging" to describe people who oppose deficit spending.

Pettiness.



Oh for God's sake.

Can you possibly twist things any more?

It was the tea party protesters who started referring to themselves as "teabaggers", apparently too ignorant to understand the term.

Should I post the links for you.............yet again?







Lucylastic -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 8:55:40 AM)

I like Bill Mahers handle on it... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/12/bill-maher-challenges-oba_n_284314.html

Tea baggers, birthers palinites, bachmanites, wilsonites, shudders they are hard to tell apart, but they are getting weirder every day.  And people wonder why they are getting laughed at and not respected any more...

Just an aside ...tea bag was a right wing faux pas, yes the left ran with it but only because it was toooo funny to let go.








tazzygirl -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 8:55:44 AM)

rul, im glad you didnt post all of that story. there was something in it that i just caught upon reading it a second time that never once crossed my mind when i listened to the speech, or thought about it afterwards. i guess it just surprised me that someone from the Republican side would pull the "race" card.




MarsBonfire -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 9:10:31 AM)

Exactly, Spinner. If people approach this with the mentality of "my party, right ot wrong" then they completely miss the point: the GOP is NOT dead forever, as an earlier poster opined. Rather, like any good vampire movie, something will happen to revove the stake from it's heart, and the GOP's reign of terror will begin again.

The simple fact is, there was a time that the GOP had some charismatic leadership. There was Reagan, and there was Newt. Both were as wrong as stilletos on squids, but that's beside the point: at least there was leadership! Now, no one has any idea who's in charge of the GOP. Michael Steele? (Is he still around?) Or maybe it's that fat guy behind the "golden microphone"... (who comes off as the nastiest creep since Mr. Potter in "It's a Wonderful Life") or maybe it's ex VP Darth Cheany? Or maybe it's that Stepford wife from Alaska.... who knows? The entire party has turned almost literally into "The Mad Caucus Race" from Alice in Wonderland.

As this wears on, how many self-respecting Americans, who are vastly in the center of things, are going to vote for a party that's in such a shamble? Answer: they're not. A vote for a republican in this upcoming election would be to put yet another rudderless, lying embarassment into congress.

Elect someone who believes this birth certificate crap?
Elect someone who thinks there are Death Panels built into health care?
Elect someone who can't keep himself from throwing a verbal shoe at Obama during an address to Congress?
Elect someone who will probably end up lying to everyone about "hiking the Applilachian trail"
Elect someone from a party that lied about WMD?
Elect someone who's pro-torture
Elect someone who seems to confuse the US Constitution with a roll of Downey TP?
Elect someone who sits around, pissing and moaning about "indoctrinating kids" on cable news instead of doing something constructive?

Yeah, I doubt the bulk of the US electorate is THAT fucking stupid, no matter what Bill Maher may say.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 10:09:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

As this wears on, how many self-respecting Americans, who are vastly in the center of things, are going to vote for a party that's in such a shamble? Answer: they're not. A vote for a republican in this upcoming election would be to put yet another rudderless, lying embarassment into congress.

Elect someone who believes this birth certificate crap?
Elect someone who thinks there are Death Panels built into health care?
Elect someone who can't keep himself from throwing a verbal shoe at Obama during an address to Congress?
Elect someone who will probably end up lying to everyone about "hiking the Applilachian trail"
Elect someone from a party that lied about WMD?
Elect someone who's pro-torture
Elect someone who seems to confuse the US Constitution with a roll of Downey TP?
Elect someone who sits around, pissing and moaning about "indoctrinating kids" on cable news instead of doing something constructive?

Yeah, I doubt the bulk of the US electorate is THAT fucking stupid, no matter what Bill Maher may say.



Never underestimate the utter stupidity of an electorate that elected George W. Bush - twice.




Irishknight -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 10:17:50 AM)

It is only a matter of time before the unwashed masses are convinced that the grass is grenner on the other side. The pendulum will again swing the other way and any good done by one party will be undone by the other. Any good one party attempts will be blocked by the other. THAT is pretty much the history of our congress and will probably continue to be the way things go.




rulemylife -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 10:35:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Blah.  Blah blah.  Blah blah blah?  Looks like a columnist had a deadline.  'The Republicans are dead forever' got used up, so now we get this empty bag.

Ain't it gonna be ironic as hell if that classless stunt by a South Carolinian I've never heard of before winds up shaming the Congress into actually protecting the citizens they are supposed to represent?

"Cranks" are dominating debate on the Republican side???  News flash:  the "cranks" are the leadership for the Dems.


I don't think the point was the Republicans are dead as a party but the tactics they are lowering themselves into accepting.








TheHeretic -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 1:28:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Never underestimate the utter stupidity of an electorate that elected George W. Bush - twice.



And the corrollary; never underestimate the utter incompetence of the party that lost to him twice, and now can't get legislation through despite controlling the White House and both houses of Congress....

[:D] 




mnottertail -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 1:34:47 PM)

I bet you were on that somali thing catcalling as soon as it hit the newsfeeds.

What do you mean, can't get it passed? today? Something is going to pass, after 60 years of footdragging......




FirmhandKY -> RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate (9/12/2009 1:42:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Blah.  Blah blah.  Blah blah blah?  Looks like a columnist had a deadline.  'The Republicans are dead forever' got used up, so now we get this empty bag.

Ain't it gonna be ironic as hell if that classless stunt by a South Carolinian I've never heard of before winds up shaming the Congress into actually protecting the citizens they are supposed to represent?

"Cranks" are dominating debate on the Republican side???  News flash:  the "cranks" are the leadership for the Dems.


I don't think the point was the Republicans are dead as a party but the tactics they are lowering themselves into accepting.

What you mean is ... that republicans are starting to use some of the same tactics that the left has always used.

Firm




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