RE: WWII Propaganda Posters

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slaveluci -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/12/2009 4:21:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The US had very good reason to worry about spies during WWII. Most people don't know this but German agents sabotaged a munitions depot in New York harbor during WWI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tom_explosion I'm sure they did have good reason. Thanks for that link as I certainly didn't know about that........luci

NorthernGent -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/13/2009 3:42:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci Wow, was there really that big of a problem with "careless talk" sabotaging US troops in battle? I've seen alot of the old posters like this but I had never seen so many about "careless talk" before. And "When you ride alone, you ride with Hitler?" Wow, interesting...............luci http://www.guidespot.com/guides/world_war_ii_posters There's a superb museum in East Berlin on German/Russian relations. You should see the 1920s/1930s propaganda posters there - they have to be seen to be believed. Propaganda is vital to get people on board for a war. On the eve of WW1 posters portrayed the Germans as baby and women killers when they marched into Belguim - primarily to get other nations around the world on board (particularly the Americans) and dissuade the waverers in British government who were not convinced it was in our interests to get involved. In the end the rebels in the cabinet were persuaded by the supposed moral obligation to Belguim in the face of Prussian 'cruelty'. In terms of DesFIP's post on German spies in England: there were German spies in England but the numbers were embelished fay beyond reality. In part this was to keep people in fear and on alert. You must have heard the term: "loose lips sink ships"? Plastered everywhere in England during WW2.

slaveluci -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/13/2009 9:48:38 AM)
Thanks for the info, NortherGent. I have heard that saying but I guess I just never thought about it's origin. I'd love to see those posters that you say have to be seen to be believed. Propaganda is indeed a nasty business..............luci

mnottertail -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/13/2009 9:52:29 AM)
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." Herman Goering, Nuremburg

popeye1250 -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/13/2009 11:55:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail "Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." Herman Goering, Nuremburg That's why I'm glad we don't have "leaders" in this country just, "the hired help."

NorthernGent -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/13/2009 12:46:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail "Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." Herman Goering, Nuremburg That's why I'm glad we don't have "leaders" in this country just, "the hired help." Exploring the history of your own country may well shed some light on the matter. It's not that long ago that the Sandinistas - a pack of a dog-on-a-string types who would have had trouble putting a small band of pygmies in their place - were turned into a crack outfit by a US propaganda department (the US government actually set up a propaganda department in order to get you on board for supporting dictators who murdered their own civilians). Reagan actually appeared on television complete with maps showing where the Sandinistas intended to strike. Now of course they were capable of competing with the United States. You're no different to us Popeye. At the height of the British Empire people here saw themselves as a peaceful commercial people who were masters of the seas. The fact that we had our fingers in a few pies seemed to go unnoticed. Just like you today. It's amazing how a dash of propaganda can lead people into false dawns.

NorthernGent -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/13/2009 12:50:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci I'd love to see those posters that you say have to be seen to be believed. Luci: they're absolutely fascinating. They basically protrayed one another as sub human. And this is well before Hitler's time.

KYsissy -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/13/2009 1:53:59 PM)
Slaveluci, if you are interested there is a book called Torpedo Junction. It is about the the German U-boats and the the fight to stop them off the East Coast of the US during WWII. This was kept quiet at the time for whatever reason the Gubbermint decided but it was ongoing and there were quite a few ships and u-boats sunk up and down the east coast and the Gulf of Mexico. The U-Boats were also used to insert spies. I had a neighbor who was one of the first 100 people to hit the beach on six beach landings in the South Pacific. Nicest guy you would ever meet. Very classy. He would not buy any Japanese products ever. I shudder to think of the hell he survived. And if you have not seen it, I highly recommend the HBO production Band of Brothers. They have the actual men who are portrayed in the series give a little blurb at the beginning of every hour. In the last show they identify who all those men speaking are. It is about as close to a factual representation as you are going to get outside of a documentary. It can be uplifting and heartbreaking at the same time. Quite a powerful series.

KYsissy -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/13/2009 1:59:01 PM)
quote: Well, popeye, what did we call them when we armed and trained them? Mujahadeen wasn't it? Freedom fighter or insurgent? It all depends on your point of view.

Rhodes85 -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/14/2009 10:52:39 PM)
'The ghost of Hitler still rides in my car on the way to work sometimes it's quite unnerving.' Indeed, he was being a 'Backseat Fuhrer' 'The US was paranoid and not all of it for no good reason, they also interred german/japanese americans' No, they only interned Japanese americans. German, Italian, Romanian, Hungarian and people of other Axis aligned countries were not interned. 'And look at all the ruses that went on prior to the D-Day invasion.' Indeed. The Abwehr was generally incompetent and its agents very poorly trained. That did change a bit when Himmler took over intelligence and reorganized it under the RSHA but still, it was for the most part paranoia. Though I might point out that Hitler disregarded a copy of Operation Overlord that was leaked to the Abwehr as misinformation. In short, there were very few actual intelligence agents in the US during the war. Even fewer competent ones. Those few that were competent were generally ignored. Slaveluci, if you're interested, I suggest a book called 'Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' theres quite a bit in there about the German-Soviet propaganda in many of the chapters and the German view of Russians in general.

slaveluci -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/15/2009 5:29:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy Slaveluci, if you are interested there is a book called Torpedo Junction. It is about the the German U-boats and the the fight to stop them off the East Coast of the US during WWII. Thanks! I'll check into it..........luci

DomKen -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/15/2009 7:44:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rhodes85 No, they only interned Japanese americans. German, Italian, Romanian, Hungarian and people of other Axis aligned countries were not interned. Actually we did detain some German and Italians in internment camps. http://www.gaic.info/

Rhodes85 -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/15/2009 6:38:01 PM)
I was referring to people interned for no other reason then the fact that their home country was Axis aligned. Germans that were interned were specifically believed to be potential agents by the government on an individual basis.

tiemeupalso -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/16/2009 12:01:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: lazarus1983 Funny that about Bugs Bunny, these days if you call the Taliban or Al qeada ragheads those on the left get a case of the vapors. Can't insult savages! They are fuckin' ragheads! the turban is not a rag but more like a sheet,a burial cloth. so the more correct term for them would be sheetheads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tiemeupalso -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/16/2009 12:22:14 PM)
heres something to think about.if we had fought the war in iraq and afganastan the way we fought WW2 it would be over and otu men would be home. we would have also won in Viet Nam.but the bleeding hearts wont let us do it,it might hurt someones feelings.

Rhodes85 -> RE: WWII Propaganda Posters (9/16/2009 6:52:50 PM)
No. There were alot of reasons the US lost in vietnam. The combat conditions alone were a major factor - they suited mobile airborne infantry hit and run raids rather than large scale combined arms operations. armor is useless in such conditions. Aside from that the US was fighting a fanatically determined enemy with 20 years combat experience on its own territory. Although poorly equipped they had good intelligence, frequently had the element of suprise and strength in numbers. None of these advantages are to be underestimated. Contrary to popular belief the US doesn't win wars just because they are 'almighty america' That being said the US will not win in Iraq nor Afghanistan. This is for the simple fact that from their opponents point of view this is a religious war. The simple fact is you will never be able to defeat a determined enemy that is fully willing to die so easily, believing himself to be in the right and backed by his god. Not short of exterminating them to the last man. History has frequently proven that. Remember such people are zealots and do not think rationally. Conventional ways of winning a war will not work in such a situation.

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