Lies lies lies and more lies. (Full Version)

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Brain -> Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/12/2009 1:02:38 PM)

Lies lies lies and more lies. Republicans are liars that get lots of money from health care companies. Now I can’t sleep at night because I have the death panels in my dreams. Wrongway lying Wilson is wrong! And grassroots protests paid for by corporations. Say it ain’t so.

Give'm hell Keith they deserve it!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#32790023




mnottertail -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/12/2009 1:38:26 PM)

why is this only being reported by keith? why aren't the patriotic conservatives calling for these low-lifers heads?

Ron




MarsBonfire -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/12/2009 4:26:29 PM)

Because most of them aren't reporters anymore. Most of those at the White House don't dare to report news anymore, they're afraid they might lose their access, or be shifted to the back of the press room.




mefisto69 -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/12/2009 5:41:02 PM)

Yup..... the Million Moron March - sure to go down in history




rikigrl -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/12/2009 5:54:46 PM)

Amen  Keith Olbermann.




Jack45 -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/12/2009 5:59:15 PM)

Wilson was right, Obama was lying.
The Elephant in the Room: Panel on Immigration’s Impact on Health Care Reform

quote:

If we were to look at the current health-care reform legislation, this takes an unprecedented step in opening up the U.S. welfare system to illegal immigrants. Under the current law, really forever, we have had a system of identity checks that largely prevent adult illegal immigrants from getting onto these means-tested welfare programs. You have to be able to substantiate that you’re in the country legally and you have to be able to substantiate that you, if you’re a legal immigrant, that you’ve been here over the time limits for eligibility.

The health-care reform legislation turns that on its back and tramples it into the dust. It basically says we will not verify; we will not check. We have a complete open door for every illegal immigrant, current and in the future, to simply enroll and receive benefits under this program. We not only will not check them at the door; we will not check them once they begin to receive the benefits. I would say if you’re going to do that with respect to health care, why would you not also establish the same precedent with respect to food stamps, to public housing, to the Earned Income Tax Credit and so forth.

And I believe that is, in fact, the direction that the Congress wants to go to, to allow all welfare benefits to be fully available to all illegal immigrants. This seems to me not only to set up a substantial cost – the cost of that – of providing medical insurance to all of the current uninsured illegals, I believe, is on the tune of close to $200 billion over the next decade – but that it clearly would have a magnet effect, I believe, of drawing even more illegals into the U.S. and into the United States since we will have a precedent of saying come into the U.S., you will get free medical care, we will absolutely not check who you are or whether you are here lawfully.





servantforuse -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/12/2009 8:06:53 PM)

Who is Kieth Olberman ?




tazzygirl -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/12/2009 9:46:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jack45

Wilson was right, Obama was lying.
The Elephant in the Room: Panel on Immigration’s Impact on Health Care Reform

quote:

If we were to look at the current health-care reform legislation, this takes an unprecedented step in opening up the U.S. welfare system to illegal immigrants. Under the current law, really forever, we have had a system of identity checks that largely prevent adult illegal immigrants from getting onto these means-tested welfare programs. You have to be able to substantiate that you’re in the country legally and you have to be able to substantiate that you, if you’re a legal immigrant, that you’ve been here over the time limits for eligibility.

The health-care reform legislation turns that on its back and tramples it into the dust. It basically says we will not verify; we will not check. We have a complete open door for every illegal immigrant, current and in the future, to simply enroll and receive benefits under this program. We not only will not check them at the door; we will not check them once they begin to receive the benefits. I would say if you’re going to do that with respect to health care, why would you not also establish the same precedent with respect to food stamps, to public housing, to the Earned Income Tax Credit and so forth.

And I believe that is, in fact, the direction that the Congress wants to go to, to allow all welfare benefits to be fully available to all illegal immigrants. This seems to me not only to set up a substantial cost – the cost of that – of providing medical insurance to all of the current uninsured illegals, I believe, is on the tune of close to $200 billion over the next decade – but that it clearly would have a magnet effect, I believe, of drawing even more illegals into the U.S. and into the United States since we will have a precedent of saying come into the U.S., you will get free medical care, we will absolutely not check who you are or whether you are here lawfully.





First, the bolded section above... that is not what the health care bill says. Perhaps a read of the contents might help you realize what im about to post in regards to your source.

For your reading pleasure, an link to where i posted the actual words of the bill in relation to this....

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2799793

As far as the CIS, here is what i found....

quote:

Overview

The Center for Immigration Studies describes itself as "the nation's only think tank devoted exclusively to research and policy analysis of the economic, social, demographic, fiscal, and other impacts of immigration on the United States." Founded in 1985 as a think tank to support the more activist work of the anti-immigrant Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), CIS is dedicated "to expand the base of public knowledge and understanding of the need for an immigration policy that gives first concern to the broad national interest. The Center is animated by a pro-immigrant, low-immigration vision which seeks fewer immigrants but a warmer welcome for those admitted."

CIS describes itself as "independent" and "nonpartisan," but its studies, reports, and media releases consistently support its restrictionist agenda and works closely on Capitol Hill with Republican Party immigration restrictionists. However, CIS has achieved credibility with the media and in think tank circles because of its lack of the kind of strident anti-immigrant rhetoric associated with many restrictionist groups, its willingness to invite pro-immigrant voices to its forums, and the scholarly format of its reports.


http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Center_for_Immigration_Studies





Brain -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/12/2009 9:49:45 PM)

My intuition tells me you won’t be interested to learn anything about him but I may be wrong, yah right, so if you want to know more watch him and find out.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/

Actually, I really think you know a lot about him and can’t stand him.




Lucylastic -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 5:09:04 AM)

yeah hes pulling your plonker Brain, 




Arpig -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 5:35:17 AM)

You know,its just as stupid for those on the left to link to an MSNBC clip as it is for a righty to link to a Fox clip. When are we all going to agree that neither of these is a legitimate news source...they are extended editorials not news. I hereby take a vow: I will not link to an MSNBC or a Fox  clip,,,,who's next...anybody else got the guts to do the same?

I ain't holding my breath.




thishereboi -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 5:40:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

You know,its just as stupid for those on the left to link to an MSNBC clip as it is for a righty to link to a Fox clip. When are we all going to agree that neither of these is a legitimate news source...they are extended editorials not news. I hereby take a vow: I will not link to an MSNBC or a Fox  clip,,,,who's next...anybody else got the guts to do the same?

I ain't holding my breath.



Ok, I'll play.....I will not link to MSNBC or FOX.

Now I am not sure how much that will mean, because I don't think I have ever linked to them in the past, but I like your posts and I wanted to show a bit of support.




Arpig -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 6:06:49 AM)

thanks boi there are two of us now..one more and we are officially a conspiracy [:D]




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 6:28:02 AM)

quote:

You know,its just as stupid for those on the left to link to an MSNBC clip as it is for a righty to link to a Fox clip. When are we all going to agree that neither of these is a legitimate news source...they are extended editorials not news. I hereby take a vow: I will not link to an MSNBC or a Fox clip,,,,who's next...anybody else got the guts to do the same?

I ain't holding my breath.

ORIGINAL: Arpig




Since you brought it up, how about we (and I mean folks on the left and the right) come up with some news sources we can all agree on as having some news value in relation to being used as citation points? So far I've heard people discount Fox, MSNBC, CNN, The New York Times, and factcheck.org. So are there "reputable" news outlets out there and if so, what would they be? If we, as a group, could come up with some generally accepted ones, it might cut down on a) the biased nonsense postings and b) the "your cite comes from a biased nonsense posting)

So what sites, if any, can we all agree are valid for use in this forum?





Arpig -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 6:48:48 AM)

I agree Spinner..I think its a great idea,so here's my nominations for European and general world news I'd say the BBC & the London Times, and in Canada for Canadian and world coverage i propose the Globe and Mail (slightly left ny Canadian standards but still fair) and the National Post (slightly right by Canadian standards, but still fair), and for a pretty balanced view the Winnipeg Free Press. In the US I would be happy with the New York Times and the Wasdhington Post, the LA Times an in business matters the Wall Street Journal or Baron's. For European business news I'd say the Financial Times is reputable. Obviously I am old fashioned and only nominated actual physical on paper news outlets...I'll leave the fighting over blogs for you guys,





tazzygirl -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 8:42:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

You know,its just as stupid for those on the left to link to an MSNBC clip as it is for a righty to link to a Fox clip. When are we all going to agree that neither of these is a legitimate news source...they are extended editorials not news. I hereby take a vow: I will not link to an MSNBC or a Fox  clip,,,,who's next...anybody else got the guts to do the same?

I ain't holding my breath.




I will go along too, unless they both play the exact same clip, with the same exact reporting about the clip. [:D]




tazzygirl -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 8:44:18 AM)

I have yet to find anything factcheck.org has been wrong about. If we allow everyone to "nominate" sites... lol... we wont have any!




mnottertail -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 8:45:18 AM)

Why are you talking to and answering yourself you goddam goof?

LOL.

Ron




Arpig -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 8:50:24 AM)

hey tazzy, I am coolcwith factcheck.org,despite its apparent leftist origins I have found it to be really fair and just as fast to call out a dem as a Republican....so as far as I am concerned Factchek.org is in...especially since they source their articles.




DomImus -> RE: Lies lies lies and more lies. (9/13/2009 8:53:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
You know,its just as stupid for those on the left to link to an MSNBC clip as it is for a righty to link to a Fox clip. When are we all going to agree that neither of these is a legitimate news source...they are extended editorials not news. I hereby take a vow: I will not link to an MSNBC or a Fox  clip,,,,who's next...anybody else got the guts to do the same?


So that makes CNN a worthy news source? (cough). They are all pretty much guilty when it comes to spin and agenda. I don't think it's stupid to provide any given link as support to an OP. It's the reader's responsibility to filter out the proverbial wheat from the chaff and investigate other sources to get a more balanced view of the issue.

What do you consider 'legitimate' news sources?




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