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RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 8:40:35 AM

Kalista07

Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
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This is a very interesting concept to me Sunny...While i do deeply respect you and your Master and the thought process that went into this 'project' i do find it somewhat simplistic. i mean come on....Anyone who knows numbers can follow this system... Now, if You really wanted to make it challenging You could make it something like "the crow creaks at dawn" means stop speaking to that person now... and "the moon rises over jordan" means decrease the volume by one" so on and so on.... Now, having given you those two ideas i must warn you that those two are no longer options....

Kali......
Who blames this thought process on the fact that i am now on vacation

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Post #: 21

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 8:43:08 AM

Sunnyfey

Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline

*giggles* Kali I love you!

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Post #: 22

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 8:59:06 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

Nothing wrong with it ....... we have *codes* too.....they are just a bit more mundane.

A raised eyebrow says an awful lot and squinted eyes are something to be avoided. Being frogmarched from somewhere usually doesn't bode well and involves some kind of sinking feeling.

agirl

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 23

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 9:02:20 AM

MissCake

Posts: 149
Joined: 9/18/2008
Status: offline

If you have social traits that need modification, and he feels strongly he is the one to educate you, the code system is both too complicated and too simple. For one, remembering the code system will take time and lead to errors, which will undermine the point of the exercise. Additionally, they don't include a lesson as to how or why the particular trait needs to be modified.

Now, if the real point is for him to exercise control and have fun reasons to give you punishments... have at it.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 24

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 9:08:06 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Ok, knocking this idea around the dungeon with Master (yes I have permission to post this) about public manners he wishes me to adhere to (I have a hard time being quiet sometimes, or to put it better, I'm a freakin loud mouth). This is the rough draft of printed off for me, and I wanted to get others opinions (again I am ALLOWED to do so) on it, besides my own.

" It should go with out saying that when we are out in public I expect you to display respectful etiquette. I don't necessarily want you to change your normal social style (if extroverted or otherwise), but I want the focus to be on making yourself a proper reflection of me. I will instill a following set of code words so that yu can know if I expect you to adjust your social mannerisms at all:

X (number) Do not engage a certain someone in any conversation. You can determine the person I'm refferring to by counting the people clockwise from my left if we're at an enclosed table etc. If for some reason I need to count from your right for simplicity I will use XB(number)

V(number)(number) I want you to adjut your volume of your voice. The first number is what I rate your volume to be, (1-10) and the seond number is where I want your volume to be. This will give you a basic idea on how much adjustment I want

Y(number)(number) I want you to yeild in conversation to others talking, and or reduce how much you are engageing in conversation, How much I think your are doing it and how much I want you to do it will be the same style as V."

So what do you all think?

There's so many languages/dialects currently at use in l'il old England at the moment that I think a look is all that is needed?
Anyway there's W and X between V and Y so I'd get lost even if we both spoke Queen's English...
did I get lost anyway?
Maybe I just didn't understand the question,...or the solution?

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Post #: 25

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 9:09:40 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
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Personally I couldn't do it. Being dyslexic it is difficult for me to tell left from right, and even when I do my reaction may try to go one way but the body goes the other. For me it would be more effective were he to say "quiet", or to give me a small pinch or a look that let me know what he expected. I am generally quiet unless I have to speak up in some sort of group activity, so that sort of thing rarely came up.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

Post #: 26

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 9:23:05 AM

BKSir

Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline

Sounds like way more effort than I would want to go through. I keep it simple for myself and the pet. "Act as you would normally, unless, for some odd reason I tell you to be silent or speak only when spoken to directly."

Those times are very few and far between though. Normally it's in direct reaction to him being a bit unruly in a store sometimes. *snort* Still not as fun as the one time he kept wandering away, so I finally hooked my finger onto his collar, walked over to the pet area, bought a leash, hooked it on, walked around holding it, and left it on him at the checkout to pay. I was previously unaware that anyone could turn that deep of a red colour.

_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

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(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 27

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 9:40:58 AM

masterlink65

Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline

i dont understand the problem here. are you having trouble learning your new speech restrictions? or are you looking for validation on this forum?

again, this is what training is all about.

not saying this is for everyone, but, i have my slave trained similar. when going into a high protocol situation, i inform my slave going into it, and it has already been trained. if , during this situation my slave loosens up, i merely have to give my slave a word or a look and it knows that it did wrong.

example. i do not like to tell me slave to shut up, in public, it is rude, and i have no need to humiliate my slave in public. if my slave is talking when not allowed or something similar, all i have to say is "mouth". and my slave knows. if my slave has hands in pockets or has its arms crossed, i just say "pockets", and it knows to place hands behind back and get back into position. before entering a room or an establishment, i say "groom", my slave then checks my hair, my tie, etc, to make sure i look presentable. these are just examples of how i have my slave trained. none of my protocols are in writing, so i have to enforce these from time to time with re-training. i am fortunate to have a very trainable slave, and one that is quick to the task. before the last event attended, my slave asked to be re-trained, as not to embarrass its master in public.

having a properly trained slave can make social interaction easier, and a well trained slave is a reflection of its masters ability.

having words and gesture is more convenient in these situations. do you really want your master carrying on at an event when you should already have been trained at home prior to this social event.

during these times of high protocol i also confirm to my slave that it is doing its job properly and i praise my slave as it deserves.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 28

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 10:13:09 AM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

Like most things with 24/7 couples, it is less kinky than practical. Many vanilla couples have secret words or phrases they use at parties to signal the other that they want to leave, or are being cornered by a boorish relative, etc.

I read somewhere a comment from an aide to Queen Elisabeth that when she is speaking to a group of visitors, if she shifts her handbag from one hand to the other, it is a signal that means she is bored and wants to move on. Not sure if it is true or not. She has never done it with me.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 29

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 10:52:59 AM

Acer49

Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Ok, knocking this idea around the dungeon with Master (yes I have permission to post this) about public manners he wishes me to adhere to (I have a hard time being quiet sometimes, or to put it better, I'm a freakin loud mouth). This is the rough draft of printed off for me, and I wanted to get others opinions (again I am ALLOWED to do so) on it, besides my own.

" It should go with out saying that when we are out in public I expect you to display respectful etiquette. I don't necessarily want you to change your normal social style (if extroverted or otherwise), but I want the focus to be on making yourself a proper reflection of me. I will instill a following set of code words so that yu can know if I expect you to adjust your social mannerisms at all:

X (number) Do not engage a certain someone in any conversation. You can determine the person I'm refferring to by counting the people clockwise from my left if we're at an enclosed table etc. If for some reason I need to count from your right for simplicity I will use XB(number)

V(number)(number) I want you to adjut your volume of your voice. The first number is what I rate your volume to be, (1-10) and the seond number is where I want your volume to be. This will give you a basic idea on how much adjustment I want

Y(number)(number) I want you to yeild in conversation to others talking, and or reduce how much you are engageing in conversation, How much I think your are doing it and how much I want you to do it will be the same style as V."

So what do you all think?

Since you asked

A dominant desiring proper manners from his/her sub is a reasonable expectation. However, this system has been written by someone who feels the submissive needs to be micro managed. This is not to say that having a few hand signals is not desirable. All a dominant need do is tap his lip, this signals a sub to tone down the exchange to who she may be speaking. If they do not have eye contact a slight tug one the ear accomplishes the same thing. The only other is a gesture to signals a submissive to return to his/her dominant for any further instructions

The section with regards to who the submissive talks to is of no use because again, that is micromanaging and two, it portrays the designer as at best, a new dominant and or who was given poor information, or at worst and insecure individual who is lacking in self esteem and worth. Dominants of worth are not threatened by who their submissive may or may not speak to

_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 30

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 11:09:05 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Greetings

Ok I think this system will work great, on paper, but as soon as you are out there and are going to catch the Xes abd Bs and nubers it will get very complicated. Would it not be more easy for your Master just to say, lower you voice, or just whisper to you if he do not want you to talk with a certain somone?

Good Luck.

I wish you well

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Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 31

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 11:09:10 AM

Sunnyfey

Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

Since you asked

A dominant desiring proper manners from his/her sub is a reasonable expectation. However, this system has been written by someone who feels the submissive needs to be micro managed. This is not to say that having a few hand signals is not desirable. All a dominant need do is tap his lip, this signals a sub to tone down the exchange to who she may be speaking. If they do not have eye contact a slight tug one the ear accomplishes the same thing. The only other is a gesture to signals a submissive to return to his/her dominant for any further instructions

The section with regards to who the submissive talks to is of no use because again, that is micromanaging and two, it portrays the designer as at best, a new dominant and or who was given poor information, or at worst and insecure individual who is lacking in self esteem and worth. Dominants of worth are not threatened by who their submissive may or may not speak to

Whats wrong with micro-management? Some people (like myself) like that kind of thing.

No one said anything about him feeling threatened by other people. Maybe he knows something about that person I don't. Since I DON'T know a lot of people here in virginia or the virginia scene, I'm betting he knows who and who not to make friends with around here better then I do. Thus the reason for that type of rule.

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(in reply to Acer49)

Post #: 32

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 11:33:42 AM

pyroaquatic

Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline

And some people have difficulty figuring out motives of some individuals. Some are dickwads and a little effort to steer one away from such a wad of dicks would save much effort in the future.

Some are not aware that SunnyFae and NZ are together *facepalms*

By speech protocol I was under the assumption that it consists of "This slave begs to serve Master" or something like that. Something about not even allowed to use possessives for a slave has none.

T_T

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As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
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(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 33

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 11:37:45 AM

Acer49

Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

Since you asked

A dominant desiring proper manners from his/her sub is a reasonable expectation. However, this system has been written by someone who feels the submissive needs to be micro managed. This is not to say that having a few hand signals is not desirable. All a dominant need do is tap his lip, this signals a sub to tone down the exchange to who she may be speaking. If they do not have eye contact a slight tug one the ear accomplishes the same thing. The only other is a gesture to signals a submissive to return to his/her dominant for any further instructions

The section with regards to who the submissive talks to is of no use because again, that is micromanaging and two, it portrays the designer as at best, a new dominant and or who was given poor information, or at worst and insecure individual who is lacking in self esteem and worth. Dominants of worth are not threatened by who their submissive may or may not speak to

Whats wrong with micro-management? Some people (like myself) like that kind of thing.

No one said anything about him feeling threatened by other people. Maybe he knows something about that person I don't. Since I DON'T know a lot of people here in virginia or the virginia scene, I'm betting he knows who and who not to make friends with around here better then I do. Thus the reason for that type of rule.

quote:

Whats wrong with micro-management? Some people (like myself) like that kind of thing.

No one said anything about him feeling threatened by other people. Maybe he knows something about that person I don't. Since I DON'T know a lot of people here in virginia or the virginia scene, I'm betting he knows who and who not to make friends with around here better then I do. Thus the reason for that type of rule.

If it works for you that is your choice ofcourse, however I think I am safe in saying that the vast majority see it as a negative. While I have my reasons, I think you would be best served by asking some of your fellow submissives as to why it is something that most do not desire.
As a Dominant, I have no desire to create a complicated speaking system when simply telling you to tone it down will accomplish the same thing

With all due respect, you have been socially interacting with pepole for almost 20 years, I am pretty confident you are quite capable of choosing your own friends. There is no rule that says your dominant is required to like or approve of your friends. He should trust and respect you and your adult decisions

< Message edited by Acer49 -- 9/14/2009 11:49:27 AM >

_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 34

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 11:38:45 AM

BKSir

Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

Since you asked

A dominant desiring proper manners from his/her sub is a reasonable expectation. However, this system has been written by someone who feels the submissive needs to be micro managed. This is not to say that having a few hand signals is not desirable. All a dominant need do is tap his lip, this signals a sub to tone down the exchange to who she may be speaking. If they do not have eye contact a slight tug one the ear accomplishes the same thing. The only other is a gesture to signals a submissive to return to his/her dominant for any further instructions

The section with regards to who the submissive talks to is of no use because again, that is micromanaging and two, it portrays the designer as at best, a new dominant and or who was given poor information, or at worst and insecure individual who is lacking in self esteem and worth. Dominants of worth are not threatened by who their submissive may or may not speak to

Not so much "threatened" by it in my case, more of a "Not now honey, the grown ups are talking." situation. And if he feels that he truly does have something of importance to interject, he's quite free to tap at my arm and has this look of "May I?". Rarely would I say no. I haven't yet.

_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

(in reply to Acer49)

Post #: 35

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 11:54:16 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline

It does not automatically mean a dom is insecure, what ever happened to it being one of the ways they impose control over their sub. There's a few people Daddy has told me not to talk to because he feels nothing good comes out of talking to them, and I agree.

Daddy has also told me since I am very friendly and will engage any one if they engage me, do not talk to people who're getting stoned, since I had no problem at all standing next to a group of people who were getting high and talking to them. He said once I smelled the pot, I should of excused myself and walked off.

Does that make him insecure? NO, it doesn't it means he does not want me being around the stoners, and maybe getting a contact high or getting in trouble with the law, if it's possible to get in trouble for being in their crowd while they were doing illegal drughs.

An X dom of mine told me not to talk to another dom and his wife if I saw them in chat at one point because his wife had been rude and insulting to not only me but my then dom, and had a track record of being rude. and insulting. If you think someone is a twat or you have an issue with them or how they talk to your sub ext ect, then it's perfectly in your rights and not a sign of insecurity at all to tell your sub to stay away from so and so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

The section with regards to who the submissive talks to is of no use because again, that is micromanaging and two, it portrays the designer as at best, a new dominant and or who was given poor information, or at worst and insecure individual who is lacking in self esteem and worth. Dominants of worth are not threatened by who their submissive may or may not speak to

(in reply to Acer49)

Post #: 36

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 1:02:01 PM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

I think you continue to freely make a choice to accept the direction of another.
Take personal responsibility and accept your choice.
Otherwise, reject the protocol.

The problem is not speach discipline -- it is thought discipline.
Learn to quiet your mind, and your vocalization will follow.

A master should focus on the cause rather than the effect.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

Post #: 37

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 1:20:07 PM

DemonKia

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline

FR, after vastly amused read thru

Hey, Nihilus & Sunny, if it helps any, I'm inclined towards variables & numbers in concocting secret codes . . . . .

& I could totally visualize the situation in which what NZ came up with makes sense: big party / dinner where you two are seated separately (across a large table, perhaps) from each other & getting up & whispering in an ear would be very involved / a lot of work . . . . . & you two don't necessarily want to display your dynamic in front of everyone, could be ostentatious or otherwise inappropriate . . . . .

As has been pointed out previously in this thread, plain old marrieds have been making use on some variant of this forever: the help-my-ear-is-being-talked-off look, the I-need-a-drink gesture . .. . .

My suggestions would be:

Over time some in your social circle may start to clue in on what's going on, so I'd be prepared to modify it to maintain discretionary power (if that's part of your point -- I like to maintain a fairly modest public persona [Ha! -- well, as much as possible], so I may just be projecting that functionality of the scheme) . . . .

&, Sunny, do alpha-variables & numbers work for you? Will they facilitate your ability to be pleasing? (With the caveat that they may work for now, & that you two may figure out an even better system for version 2.0 . . . . )

_____________________________

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Post #: 38

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 1:26:38 PM

Sunnyfey

Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline

I perfer hand gestures, it's something visual, and no one else is going to wonder if we're playing a secret game of bingo or not

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(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 39

RE: Speech protocol - 9/14/2009 1:28:10 PM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Ok, knocking this idea around the dungeon with Master (yes I have permission to post this) about public manners he wishes me to adhere to (I have a hard time being quiet sometimes, or to put it better, I'm a freakin loud mouth). This is the rough draft of printed off for me, and I wanted to get others opinions (again I am ALLOWED to do so) on it, besides my own.

" It should go with out saying that when we are out in public I expect you to display respectful etiquette. I don't necessarily want you to change your normal social style (if extroverted or otherwise), but I want the focus to be on making yourself a proper reflection of me. I will instill a following set of code words so that yu can know if I expect you to adjust your social mannerisms at all:

X (number) Do not engage a certain someone in any conversation. You can determine the person I'm refferring to by counting the people clockwise from my left if we're at an enclosed table etc. If for some reason I need to count from your right for simplicity I will use XB(number)

V(number)(number) I want you to adjut your volume of your voice. The first number is what I rate your volume to be, (1-10) and the seond number is where I want your volume to be. This will give you a basic idea on how much adjustment I want

Y(number)(number) I want you to yeild in conversation to others talking, and or reduce how much you are engageing in conversation, How much I think your are doing it and how much I want you to do it will be the same style as V."

So what do you all think?

Since you asked

A dominant desiring proper manners from his/her sub is a reasonable expectation. However, this system has been written by someone who feels the submissive needs to be micro managed. This is not to say that having a few hand signals is not desirable. All a dominant need do is tap his lip, this signals a sub to tone down the exchange to who she may be speaking. If they do not have eye contact a slight tug one the ear accomplishes the same thing. The only other is a gesture to signals a submissive to return to his/her dominant for any further instructions

The section with regards to who the submissive talks to is of no use because again, that is micromanaging and two, it portrays the designer as at best, a new dominant and or who was given poor information, or at worst and insecure individual who is lacking in self esteem and worth. Dominants of worth are not threatened by who their submissive may or may not speak to

I actually love to be micromanaged. It most certainly doesn't mean that the dominant is new or insecure. We both get off on it. I only felt that this was just an incredibly complicated system. The idea behind it...the control aspect is hot.

_____________________________

(in reply to Acer49)

Post #: 40

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