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No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 2:46:49 PM   
Chimortis


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Source: http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/35963.html

quote:

For many years, pro-lifers have expended vast time, energy, and money “marching on Washington” every January, to exactly zero effect. Worse, they hark back to pro-redistribution events. And always, as with the latest 9/12 extravaganza, headed by red-state fascists, the marchers assemble on the “National Mall,” the government grass that extends from Lincoln’s Roman temple — where he sits enthroned like Jupiter, fasces and all — to George Washington’s obelisk, an Eqyptian monument to the god Amon Re. In the distance is the capitol, whose dome copies the Roman pantheon, temple to all the gods. In the top of the dome is a painting of Washington being assumed, like the divinized Julius Caesar, into Heaven upon his death. Even Jefferson is portrayed as a god in a Roman temple. Not far away is the the Greek temple where the nine supremes hand down the “law.” Then there is the vast executive apparatus, headed by a living god, and dedicated to killing, spying, taxing, redistributing, inflating, and controlling, symbolized by the Pentagram. Really, DC is one nasty place. So why would anyone concerned about the state and its power “march on Washington”? Such events only dissipate energy, and fool people into thinking that their time and money have accomplished something, as the regime laughs up its sleeve. Indeed, that is the purpose. So stay home. Read, write, work, organize, and avoid DC like the plague it is.

Written by Lew Rockwell



< Message edited by Chimortis -- 9/14/2009 2:47:24 PM >
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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 3:20:00 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Flawed thinking since what are they staying home to organise? A picnic at Capitol Hill perhaps?

Direct action perhaps? Petition this or boycott that? What is the most effective weapon of the dissident these days?

Even when people do things such as direct action they still have to stop and say what they are doing them things for. Some places i.e. parliament square you don’t get the right to protest so how would you change this other than with protest?


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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 3:41:03 PM   
MarsBonfire


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Votes.

Make it a litmus test for any candidate you might vote for. Let them know that this issue is of primary importance to you (regardless of being pro, or anti choice.) If it's NOT that important to you, in comparison to taxes, health care reform, foreign relations, other economic issues, then talk about them, and otherwise STFU about abortion!

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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 3:50:54 PM   
Arpig


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The most effective form of protest has always been a well organized and extensive letter-writing campaign. Nothing gets a politician's attention like the opinions of those he actually depends on for his job....his electors. If enough people write to their appropriate representative about a topic, he/she will suddenly see the light and come around. Its not out of any sense of moral obligation to his constituents, its out of a need to suck up to his/her electors in order to get reelected.

Except on very few cases I see little value in protests and marches. They are useful when directly confronting the government's authority, such as in Myanmar and Iran recently, or in Selma some 30 years ago. But as a method of changing government policy on other matters they are showy and make those involved feel like they have done something...they have, unfortunately for them what they did is really ineffective. You really want your Rep (or MP, or whatever title they have in your corner of the world) to change their position then get as many people as you can to write (or email if your too lazy...but actual letters seem to have more sway...maybe its being able to see the growing pile of them) and when enough of these letters/emails have arrived, the politician will fear for his/her reelection chances and will take steps to placate the letter-writers.


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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 3:56:10 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Letter writing is good but It'll change the opinion of one MP out of how many in total? At PMQT you’ll see these MP’s raise their constituents questions but the reply from the PM is often equivalent to ‘thanks for bringing this to my attention’ or they'll give some statistical fudge demonstrating how those concerns are no longer valid.

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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 4:04:10 PM   
MarsBonfire


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You can also attend events where your personal representatives are appearing. You can then do something really radical... like talking with them intelligently. (There are some really good examples of this on Youtube, under the heading of "Al Franken." Part of the reason so many feel that their voices are no longer being listened to, is because they don't bother to make them heard in the first place. They sit on their couches, listen to the pundits on TV, and don't get a real picture of what's going on.... Thus they either stay at home, feeling that they are powerless, or take the fruitcake route, and show up at whacko rallies, sporting guns and signs that claim their elected leaders are the next Hitler.

Being uninformed not only makes for bad government, it leaves you open to being swayed by evil people whispering into your ear via radio and TV... it turns you into a sheep. (Look at some of the nuttier voices we have on this part of the site.)

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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 4:15:02 PM   
DomKen


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Rockwell is one of the last people anyone should take advice from.

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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 4:30:23 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chimortis

Source: http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/35963.html


So, he's into the Mises Institute...whose "stated goal is to "undermine statism in all its forms". Its methodology is based on praxeology, a description of individual human action which seeks to avoid errors in scientific behavioral observation that could be induced by human self-consciousness and complexity. The Institute's economic theories depict any government intervention as destructive, whether through welfare, inflation, taxation, regulation, or war. The Institute disparages both communism and the American System school of economics (more broadly the American School). The Institute is generally critical of statism and democracy, with the latter being described in Institute publications as "coercive"[4], "incompatible with wealth creation"[5] "replete with inner contradictions"[6] and a system " of legalized graft."[4]"

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises_Institute)
BTW, is that the Wiccan pentagram, or the Satanic pentagram he's talking about?
thornhappy

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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 5:15:04 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Letter writing is good but It'll change the opinion of one MP out of how many in total? At PMQT you’ll see these MP’s raise their constituents questions but the reply from the PM is often equivalent to ‘thanks for bringing this to my attention’ or they'll give some statistical fudge demonstrating how those concerns are no longer valid.
And when the PM gets letters from his constituents (the ones in his riding, the ones who actually elect him)...when the majority of MPs get the same sorts of letters...well that's how you change things. Scare them...threaten their pocket books,just like anybody else.

And if you can't get enough people to write to enough MPs, then guess what....not enough people agree with you, and your position is pretty much doomed.


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Big man! Pig Man!
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Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 6:14:47 PM   
DomImus


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I think the value of a demonstration is that it brings attention to a given issue and can serve to enlist more people in support of said issue to contact their given representative(s) about the issue. The demonstration itself may be more spectacle than anything else but the fallout can be positive.

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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 6:34:49 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

I think the value of a demonstration is that it brings attention to a given issue and can serve to enlist more people in support of said issue to contact their given representative(s) about the issue. The demonstration itself may be more spectacle than anything else but the fallout can be positive.
True that, they can be useful for that. The problem is that for a demonstration to be really effective it has to be supressed...there has to be an attempt to quash the demonstration for it to really bring in the recruits...there has to be tear gas and truncheons, and unfortunately (from a protester's point of view) that rarely happens in the West, unless the protesters start something themselves, in which case it is sort of counter-productive...you need to be seen as the victims of oppression (as in Selma...that picture of the cop sicing his dog on the black guy did wonders for the movement). It worked for the Intifada in Palestine as well...the kids chucking rocks at Israeli tanks, or the water cannons in Soweto...that's the sort of shit that makes things happen. Pretty girls bleeding on the street, a lone guy standing in front of a line of tanks, Buddhist monks lighting themselves on fire, APCs running rampage through the crowds...that's what a protest needs to really have any effect.

A peaceful march really doesn't have much effect, unless it is really fucking huge...huge beyond any body's expectations, revealing a previously unimagined of degree of support. Otherwise its just a passing bit of entertainment on the TV.Without the opposition, a demonstration is really pretty pointless...I remember a friend of mine who participated in many protests back in the 70s telling me that the whole idea was to get the police to start arresting people...if nobody got arrested then the protest was pretty much viewed as a failure.



_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/14/2009 9:18:10 PM   
servantforuse


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Events, e-mails and letter writing are all a waste of time. There is only one thing that gets the attention of our leaders. When the money stops coming in for the next campaign, they change directions. Nothing else matters to them.

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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/15/2009 5:40:20 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
And when the PM gets letters from his constituents (the ones in his riding, the ones who actually elect him)...when the majority of MPs get the same sorts of letters...well that's how you change things. Scare them...threaten their pocket books,just like anybody else.

And if you can't get enough people to write to enough MPs, then guess what....not enough people agree with you, and your position is pretty much doomed.

The PM is manoeuvred into the safest seat so he has zero chance of not getting re-elected. Probably you can look through history and see a sitting PM has never failed to get re-elected because of this. The problem is the system was built around this idea that local people are represented by local MP's (those MP's being from those local communities.) Now the political parties have taken over just playing the numbers game in terms of which seats have the biggest margins. (the same reason no major political figure will campaign in my area in the lead up to an election) For those safest seats they'll place people from far away to represent them only taking into consideration who they definitely want in the government or opposition.

In my view there needs to be some geographical constraints (based on a finite record of where the candidate has lived historically) placed on who can represent each constituency. This needs to happen in the country for people to regain faith because nobody is ignorant as to the failings of the two party system. Then after addressing this you have to work out how you are going to get equal representation in government for ethnic minorities when such communities are concentrated in only a few areas of the country. This is the opposite problem.

People feel more engaged obviously when they get more say or the feeling their vote counts, obviously under the first past the post system only a tiny minority are getting the ultimate say (those few swing constituencies). This isn't what I would consider mathematically sound democracy but obvious proportional representation has its own list of problems.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 9/15/2009 5:47:49 AM >


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RE: No more marches on DC! - 9/15/2009 12:27:49 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

The PM is manoeuvred into the safest seat so he has zero chance of not getting re-elected. Probably you can look through history and see a sitting PM has never failed to get re-elected because of this. The problem is the system was built around this idea that local people are represented by local MP's (those MP's being from those local communities.) Now the political parties have taken over just playing the numbers game in terms of which seats have the biggest margins. (the same reason no major political figure will campaign in my area in the lead up to an election) For those safest seats they'll place people from far away to represent them only taking into consideration who they definitely want in the government or opposition.
Interestingly enough, Gordon Brown hasn't switched ridings, nor did Tony Blair, nor John Major, nor did Thatcher...I could go on listing them, but I think the point is made...PMs are not manoeuvred into safe seats, they continue to represent the people who originally elected them. As to sitting PMs who lost....what are you smoking? It happens all the frigging time. Churchill in 45, Atlee in 51, Douglas-Home in 64, Wilson in 70, Heath in 74, Callaghan in 79, Major in 97. I am 100% certain I could find more if I looked further back, but again I think that is sufficient to prove your assertion incorrect,.

While I am sure the practice of parachuting "star" candidates into safe ridings happens in the UK, just as it does here in Canada, it is nowhere near as prevalent as you claim...it is the exception, not the rule. It is used rarely for the simple reason that it is unpopular with the electorate...the voters in a "safe" riding won't mind being used to get somebody a seat once in a while, but they will object if they are constantly used in this way...it leads to "safe" seats switching allegiance.

quote:

Then after addressing this you have to work out how you are going to get equal representation in government for ethnic minorities when such communities are concentrated in only a few areas of the country. This is the opposite problem.
What is the point of this? Why should there be "equal representation" for minorities? Why would this be important? There is no need for any such quota system, insuring a certain number of members are women, blacks from Africa, blacks from the Caribbean, Indians, Pakistanis, Malays, etc. Its ludicrous, pure and simple.

< Message edited by Arpig -- 9/15/2009 12:29:34 PM >


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Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


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