RE: 9/11...What if it happens again

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 7:56:47 AM)
If another terrorist attack happened again, it would not have the same unifying effect. I believe it would become partisan fodder of the blame game. If you want to see something unify the country, it will be something that happens internally that the politicians could have avoided. the next unifying thing will likely be more severe than any terrorist attack could be.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 8:00:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf If another terrorist attack happened again, it would not have the same unifying effect. I believe it would become partisan fodder of the blame game. If you want to see something unify the country, it will be something that happens internally that the politicians could have avoided. the next unifying thing will likely be more severe than any terrorist attack could be. Unfortunatly, I tend to agree...I am picturing something like a mass lading of outer space creatures with a copy of "To Serve Man" in one hand and a bottle of barbaque sauce in the other.

Eigenaar -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 8:30:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse If you really think that it is a 'fake' war on terrorisim... People all around the world are dying every day in this war. It is a war but not a war on terrorism. It is an illegal war moreover. Because the American administration knows this you have the ''Haque Invasion Act'' since 2002 which says the Americans can invade their closest ally the Netherlands as soon as an American will face the International War Crimes Tribunal. Iraq nor Afghanistan attacked America whereas Al Qaida is never proven to exist. Adding that the alleged terrorists Saddam Hoessein/the Taliban were helped in the saddle by the American administration and the existence of several ''Guantanamos'' around the world one can rightfully point the finger in the opposite direction as to who the terrorists are.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 8:45:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf If another terrorist attack happened again, it would not have the same unifying effect. I believe it would become partisan fodder of the blame game. If you want to see something unify the country, it will be something that happens internally that the politicians could have avoided. the next unifying thing will likely be more severe than any terrorist attack could be. Well wait a minute... There are major policy differences between both parties, like the CIA thing, Like the refusal to name radical Islam as the problem, like the profiling and internal tatics used here... Unfortunatly, I tend to agree...I am picturing something like a mass lading of outer space creatures with a copy of "To Serve Man" in one hand and a bottle of barbaque sauce in the other.

UncleNasty -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 8:57:35 AM)
I consider the "economic crisis" to be a domestic terrorist attack so in my mind we're already there. Uncle Nasty

philosophy -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 9:22:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic You know, Phil, I looked at how I had phrased that before I clicked the 'ok' button, and clicked it anyway. A military response is not automatically going going to be the best option. I meant to express that conservatives would be more committed to military force by a Democrat, than liberals were to military force by a Republican. ...ah, i see what you mean. Yup, i'd agree with that. quote: As for you request of an example, sorry, but I'm not privy to that sort of information. If we have actionable intelligence though, perhaps a well-placed hellfire missile has saved the day already. We also have those stories (denied in the strongest of terms) that special forces type operatives could have taken down Osama Bin Laden, but Bill Clinton wouldn't give the order. ...again agreed, but that sort of military action is the sort of thing that the public doesn't hear about anyway. i suppose (to readdress the OP) that my touchstone on the issue is effective action...regardless of its nature. If a diplomatic move produces results that's better than a military action that does not. The reverse is also true...a military action with a demonstrable result is better than a diplomatic one that doesn't. This may be an artefact that, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter to me whether the US has a Democrat or a Republican in power.....what matters to me is what they actually do.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 9:24:17 AM)
The crisis will have to get worse, and more people suffer while we watch the two parties tear the country down. Then when it is seen that neither party truly wants to help it's citizens as their primary goal (their primary goal being to stay in power). Then maybe the American people will unify, set aside some of the petty differences, in an effort to take care of the larger problem (the politicians and their pandering to corporate interest).

LaTigresse -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 9:27:22 AM)
I have to agree with Orion. As far as 9/11. In my mind it isn't a matter of IF, more so of WHEN. As for what will happen.......shrugging.......hard to say. Depends on the who, what and when.

kdsub -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 10:40:38 AM)
I like to believe my thinking generally reflects the so-called silent majority. At least this has proven true for the last thirty years or so in America. If I do understand this mind set… then this is what America will demand if thousands die in another terrorist attack. There will be no borders that will not be crossed to root out terrorist. America will demand a full scale all out war. This means any country even suspected of harboring, supplying, or tolerating terrorists would be accountable. This could mean the annihilation of Iran, Syria, Pakistan, and the possibility of N. Korea and the restructuring of Saudi Arabia. Sadly it will be the only way to cut out the rot in that part of the world. My views I understand will not be popular here...hell they are not popular with me... but I think I am closer to reality then many others posting on this thread. It makes no difference if I come off like a warmonger...heavens knows I'm not...There comes a time, as in WWII, when diplomacy means weakness… come and take me. Despite what many may believe…if there is one thing Americans are not…is weak. Butch

philosophy -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 10:52:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Despite what many may believe…if there is one thing Americans are not…is weak. ...strength without wisdom is not a laudable quality. quote: This means any country even suspected of harboring, supplying, or tolerating terrorists would be accountable. .....i look forward to you arguing for reparations to be paid to victims of Irish terrorism by the US.

DedicatedDom40 -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 10:55:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UncleNasty I consider the "economic crisis" to be a domestic terrorist attack so in my mind we're already there. Uncle Nasty I completely agree. Now, we just have to keep this nation of dim bulbs from obsessing on the left vs. right debate, or the Obama vs anybody else debate, and go after the real culprit, the international banking elite.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 10:56:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Despite what many may believe…if there is one thing Americans are not…is weak. I completely disagree. The cowardice that marked this country's behavior in the weeks and months following 9/11 was a disgraceful display of weakness in my opinion.

kdsub -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 11:06:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ...strength without wisdom is not a laudable quality. You know there is always the possibility that the wisdom you speak of may be different then what you envision. Butch

kdsub -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 11:07:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Despite what many may believe…if there is one thing Americans are not…is weak. I completely disagree. The cowardice that marked this country's behavior in the weeks and months following 9/11 was a disgraceful display of weakness in my opinion. I'm almost afraid to ask Butch

TreasureKY -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 11:09:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Of course we would come together, set aside our differences and stand united behind our President. You really think so KY? Alas... I do. But I'll be the first to admit that I may be too optimistic in some respects... and too cynical in others. First, I do believe that there is an inherent goodness in people... though like the world around us, it isn't black and white. Recall the surge of patriotism post-9/11... to the point of almost fanaticism. Flag sales soared beyond belief. Bumper stickers proclaiming our love and support of America cropped up on almost every vehicle. Enlistment into the Armed Forces surged. I don't expect that things would be much different were it to happen again. While those of us who lived through it may be a bit more desensitized, there is a whole new generation who have yet to experience the phenomenon... and a great number from our own who miss the feeling of camaraderie and unity. (Of course, for some the new-found love of country crossed the line and stepped over into hatred of those who even appeared to be "the enemy".) But nevertheless, people (generally speaking) love to rally around drama... particularly if it personally touches their lives in some way. They want to belong, to be involved, to serve some higher purpose. I'm sure you've heard similar comments over the years... "My brother-in-law's best friend has a sister who has a cousin who worked in the World Trade Center up until just one week prior to 9/11..." "Why... I was thinking about flying to visit my aunt and uncle on that day... it could have been me in one of those planes!" "Where was I when I heard the news? Well, I had just arrived at work..." These are just made-up comments, but the internet is full of real ones... Caught in the Crossfire National September 11 Memorial & Museum 911 Digital Archive 911 Stories This need to share adversity isn't a bad thing, on the whole. A good part of it is what prompts some people to help when there is a disaster. All in all, you can't really go too wrong when people in need receive help and the people giving feel a sense of accomplishment. However, I do believe there is great potential for this "weakness" to be exploited. Note that our current administration has freely acknowledged that they are not above using adversity to achieve their goals... "Rule 1: Never allow a crisis to go to waste. They are opportunities to do big things." ~ White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel "Never waste a good crisis." ~ Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton "Great opportunity in the midst of the 'great crisis' befalling America." ~ President Obama What this tells me is that, were the US to be struck again similar to 9/11, that no effort would be spared in attempting to manipulate emotions to sway the American people in whichever direction best serves the Government's interests. Though not necessarily the best interests of the people. Nevertheless, I feel that a good majority of the American people will be more than willing to go right along with it. And there are those who will readily proclaim that we already did. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth You don' think that his public proclamation of eliminating any CIA interrogation technique such as water-boarding, will cause a finger to of responsibility pointed directly at the administration? It will be claimed that too much of the intelligence community resources were being spent investigating what occurred over the past 8 years when there wasn't another attack which should have been used preventing this one. The "I will talk with the enemies of the US" quote from the President will be placed over the bodies of the dead. The situation is yet another corner painted by campaign rhetoric. We all better hope it doesn't happen because it could be the flash-point for active and violent protests if not a total civil war. Despite my comments above, I do think there will also be recriminations and accusations. I do not think all Americans will fall into lock-step and there will be significant dissent. Perhaps even to the level of civil war, as you suggest being possible. Some might say we never learn, and some might say we learned our lesson all too well. Either way, I don't think it will be pretty.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 11:19:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Despite what many may believe…if there is one thing Americans are not…is weak. I completely disagree. The cowardice that marked this country's behavior in the weeks and months following 9/11 was a disgraceful display of weakness in my opinion. I'm almost afraid to ask I'll save you the trouble! The hysterical frenzy of fear that Bush whipped up to facilitate the invasion of Iraq was sheer cowardice on a national scale. Afghanistan was a true show of strength, but it was more than cancelled out by the weakness that made Iraq possible.

philosophy -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 11:31:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ...strength without wisdom is not a laudable quality. You know there is always the possibility that the wisdom you speak of may be different then what you envision. Butch .......ah, relativism eh?

UncleNasty -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 11:48:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40 quote: ORIGINAL: UncleNasty I consider the "economic crisis" to be a domestic terrorist attack so in my mind we're already there. Uncle Nasty I completely agree. Now, we just have to keep this nation of dim bulbs from obsessing on the left vs. right debate, or the Obama vs anybody else debate, and go after the real culprit, the international banking elite. I'm willing to leave the international conspiracy type dynamic out of it (not to say that isn't happening, or present, just that I'm focusing "in country"). 3,500,000 foreclosures this year. About the same last year, A bit less the year before. As many or more next year. Yes, there are still several more waves to come in the Alt-A, the Option ARM, the more exotic "interest only" loans. These are all due to reset in the very near future in large numbers. Loan mods are really not lawful or legal unless it involves the actual investors in the instruments, and quite honestly they aren't willing to do that. Just look at Obamas program for such, and the paltry numbers of loans that qualify that have been modified - that number for some loan servicers is in single digits, and the best number is still less than 25% of qualified loans. These numbers will not stem the tide. 3.5 million this year equates to about 14,000,000 people (4 per household, or family) being put out of their homes. Another way to consider it is about 7000 per hour (given a 50 week year and an 8 hour day). How long do you really believe this can go on and the country still survive? How can this really be viewed as anything other completely destabilizing domestic terrorism? Uncle Nasty

kdsub -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 11:53:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ...strength without wisdom is not a laudable quality. You know there is always the possibility that the wisdom you speak of may be different then what you envision. Butch .......ah, relativism eh? Yes... one of those "only time will tell" who is right or wrong...personally I hope you are... realistically I believe I am. If you are speaking about Irish terrorism, if the UK were strong enough to dictate to the US they would have... don't you agree? But I must tell you in this circumstance as always...two wrongs do not make a right...or might. Because the UK was weak does not mean we have to be. I love talking to you on this forum but will not contribute to a discussion that is not about a repeat of 9/11. Your personal vendetta against the US for contributions to the IRA is off topic. Often it seems when you are faced with an indefensible position you try to change the subject. Butch

Mercnbeth -> RE: 9/11...What if it happens again (9/15/2009 12:28:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth You don' think that his public proclamation of eliminating any CIA interrogation technique such as water-boarding, will cause a finger to of responsibility pointed directly at the administration? It will be claimed that too much of the intelligence community resources were being spent investigating what occurred over the past 8 years when there wasn't another attack which should have been used preventing this one. The "I will talk with the enemies of the US" quote from the President will be placed over the bodies of the dead. The situation is yet another corner painted by campaign rhetoric. We all better hope it doesn't happen because it could be the flash-point for active and violent protests if not a total civil war. Despite my comments above, I do think there will also be recriminations and accusations. I do not think all Americans will fall into lock-step and there will be significant dissent. Perhaps even to the level of civil war, as you suggest being possible. Some might say we never learn, and some might say we learned our lesson all too well. Either way, I don't think it will be pretty. KY, The thought of the resulting domestic consequences of another attack on US soil *(Debate Term Clarification Question: If we're "at war" with terrorists is the incident a "terrorist" attack or a war battlefield?)* concern me the most. As disingenuous as they would be, do you doubt a news source near and dear to the Administration will not show the crater under the quote "I will talk to our enemies!"; with the subheading "Terrorist use another form of communication"? Or how about some disenfranchised CIA operative corresponding swinging in the opposite direction of the Valerie Plame breach disclosure announcing that the CIA, or some other security service, had the perpetrators under investigation but were told to stand down in the face of pressure, real or implied, from the White House? The Administration has no public 'equity' from which to draw upon; nowhere near the status of President Bush 9 months into his first term. The week before 9/11 Bush's approval rating per ABC was 55% with 41% disapproval. The same source, ABC, has the President at 54% approval with 43% disapproval. The distinction should be clear; conspiracy theories aside for a minute, unlike the first experience on 9/11, "We didn't know this could happen here!" will not be an acceptable excuse. Contributory is the disconnect from the campaign rhetoric to Administration reality. Three times the amount of the Bush bail out, the Obama bail out isn't producing at the grass roots. People are out of work and having a problem making ends meat and the call from Washington and from the States is for more taxation going to feed the growing bureaucracy. Here in CA the biggest tax increase in US history had generated LESS tax revenue. Today's news was that the city of LA may have to lay off thousands in the face of their latest budget crisis. We aren't unique as a City or State in that regard. Nothing going on shows results that have had a positive impact on the general public. Obama's comment that "the economy is recovering" isn't reality for most citizens. No amount of continuing campaigning, and he's planned another Letterman appearance as well as a full slate of more speeches on Sunday; does anything to change that reality. People have heard the speeches and the rhetoric and are waiting for some positive results. These conditions don't lend to the conclusion that under attack we will rally behind the man in charge. What it will do is eliminate more people from the middle, polarizing them. When critical mass hits the polarized fringe - watch out. The USA as we know it is over in the event of another attack coming at this time. As it is, the cauldron of discontent is simmering at a near boiling point due to the polarizing factions on both sides. A significant attack, again killing thousands of innocent civilians, will turn the simmer into a rolling boil.

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