RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (Full Version)

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JohnWarren -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (2/28/2006 10:26:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I, personally, don't find culturally constructed or socially constructed dynamics based on biological/perceived sex/gender or age as the same as being into BDSM. One you do because you are trained/taught that way; the other you do because of your personality and your choice.

I wasn't speaking about anything outside of Western culture, specifically the panel I went to at Conversio Virium and other people of "minority racial" groups about similar issues of being kinky, being out, and being non-white.


Len's Michele had an interesting take on the lack of Black people in the scene. Her observation was that many in the Black culture are reluctant to behave in a sexual manner in public because it plays to the racist stereotypes. This makes them uncomfortable in the public scene



slave4Darby3d -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/1/2006 2:19:04 AM)

I haven't noticed anyones race, unless they have a picture or avatar dipicting so.

But, I do know from experience, that a lot ethnic people are hesitant these days to open up and put anything down in writing. I know that black folks (Master and boyfriend included) like to keep their stuff private. Rarely is a black man apt to discuss one side or the other of a kink. That's their thing and don't you dare take a side against it or be critical. They just don't put themselves out there like that.

And, I think we can all agree, opening up here on any forum is taking a step out into the firing range. I even find myself arrow-testing my posts - and I'm as white as they come. And, as dispicable as it is, I do know that there have been the occasional "guest" that gets into the chat area and gets right down and personal, even to an ethnic comment or inference, when disagreed with. It took me a while to start posting on the forums (used to be pet4Master before I was collared in January.)

But do I think that us white folks have somehow driven out the diversity - probably not. Some people just don't feel like communicating in this way...those of us here do. If you really want to know - search the profiles and send messages to active members who do not post on the message boards. You can skip over Darby3d..he doesn't do message boards, period.

Your results may vary...



orfunboi -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/1/2006 3:51:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

On another matter and equally important.. If and when I visit Old Blighty, I'll take you up on a couple of pints of the best English Ale. I've never tasted it so you may need to organize several slaves (or a Zoo keeper) to get my inhebriated carcus home (or to the Bear enclosure at the London Zoo)


Do they make an enclosure strong enough to hold an IronBear?



orfunboi -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/1/2006 4:10:21 AM)

While it is true that Detroit is 80% black, the surrounding suburbs are not, and i think that is where the majority of the kinksters come from. i am not sure why there isn't more diversity in the groups, but i can honestly say, i have never heard anyone say anythng racial or treat anyone badly. Now this could be just luck or maybe people know me well enough not to say anything in front of me, i'm not sure. i have also noticed the number has grown in the 6 years i have been involved, this could be real growth, or it could be i am just meeting more and more people.

As far as the internet goes, unless i look at a pic or the poster mentions race in their post, i don't know what color they are and i don't really care. i know the Sir who told me about collarme was black, but i have never seen her post, so i don't think that counts in this thread. To me they are just people and either i read their post and agree or not. i am on a lesbian website called FallenGoddess and they recently had a thread about the same thing. so maybe it's an internet thing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FTopinMichigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot
What is your experience as far as race is concerned in your local area's and how does it compare with the boards here?


I have found this forum much more diverse than the local BDSM community here.

I just pulled up some old demographics, for the city of Detroit, and our city is well over 80% Black or African American (that's how it's listed - stats were from the year 2000).

Our "public" oriented local BDSM community is probably 0-5% at events. Why? Honestly, I don't know, and have wondered what's up myself. I've always found that a bit odd, but when discussing it, with others in the community, I've had people suggest that the private community numbers are more reflective of the demographics at large.

K




thetammyjo -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/1/2006 8:41:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I, personally, don't find culturally constructed or socially constructed dynamics based on biological/perceived sex/gender or age as the same as being into BDSM. One you do because you are trained/taught that way; the other you do because of your personality and your choice.

I wasn't speaking about anything outside of Western culture, specifically the panel I went to at Conversio Virium and other people of "minority racial" groups about similar issues of being kinky, being out, and being non-white.


Len's Michele had an interesting take on the lack of Black people in the scene. Her observation was that many in the Black culture are reluctant to behave in a sexual manner in public because it plays to the racist stereotypes. This makes them uncomfortable in the public scene



She was on that panel I believe. (we had such great panels and guests at CV, I hope they are continuing to do well)

I hope she is doing well. I felt so sad when Len passed on and we sent her a card then.

Yeah, as much as I hated the number of people, the cost of living, and the pollution of NYC I still do miss the TES and CV and Applemunch people.



IronBear -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/1/2006 10:42:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

On another matter and equally important.. If and when I visit Old Blighty, I'll take you up on a couple of pints of the best English Ale. I've never tasted it so you may need to organize several slaves (or a Zoo keeper) to get my inhebriated carcus home (or to the Bear enclosure at the London Zoo)


Do they make an enclosure strong enough to hold an IronBear?


That we shall have to test won't we?



JohnWarren -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/1/2006 11:26:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
I hope she is doing well. I felt so sad when Len passed on and we sent her a card then.



She is. She moved into one of Len's condos and has completed her doctorate. She has what seems to be a wonderful master who has moved in with her. I'm looking forward to seeing him during this year's Leather Leadership Conference



otenba -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/1/2006 2:02:35 PM)

I am not very well entrenched in my local kink community because I travel too much with my job. I'd guess that the few gatherings I've been to at my "home base" in the southwest were, (as best as I can recall) about 70 percent White/Hispanic, and 30 percent "other". Usually, I am the only person of Japanese descent there. When I was in the SFO area for my former Master's wedding, there was a LOT more Japanese representation! (YAY!) Please forgive me if I offend here, I don't mean to, but I'm not sure whatever the current PC term is for the next bit... When we went dancing at some fetish clubs in LA that same week (as the wedding) It was about 40/40 Black and White and about 10 percent everyone else.

As to why we don't get involved here as much, I don't do the message board thing very often. I read a lot, but I rarely post unless I think I can add something to the convo. Community-wise, there are some other factors invovled.

First, (as it has been pointed out by an earlier poster) some ethnicities are trained to keep our sex lives hidden. I was raised in a sexually conscious atmosphere. My parents answered my questions, but there were rules and one of the rules was that it is no one else's business. Your sex life, kinky or not, is personal and should be kept between you and your lover(s). I only go to kink gatherings with other people, usually with a person that I'm involved with. I am not comfortable with party play. One of the Black Masters that I know does not go to gatherings either. He will go to seminars, if the topic interests him, but he will not share his proclivities with random strangers. This is more of a cultural thing I think, than a racial one. My non-Japanese friends report differently.

Second, certain minorities DO have to face several kinky stereotypes and we get tired of confronting them. A great many people assume that the Black Master I know wants to abuse, and degrade White Women because he is Black. He prefers Asians actually, with a few specific nationalities. His primary submissive is also Black, but a lot people assume that her Master is a White Male. Or in my case. My nic here is the Japanese term for "tomboy". But many people don't want otenba, they want Sayuri from Memoirs of a Geisha, or they want Kwan Yin, Goddess of Death and Mercy. One of my online buds is a Jordanian Domme, veil and all. Yet many people assume she's some sort of submissive Scherezade, there to dance for them and cater to their harem inspired whims.

These are just examples of some of the things we face out there, and by no means are they the norm everywhere. The examples in my second are not endemic everywhere, and they are not 100 percent. That's why I specified "many people" and "a lot of people" instead of "everyone". Because it's not every one and it's not all the time, but it does happen often enough that it can get to be a pain in the ass. I simply don't have the patience or the time to deal with this on a regular basis. I seek my kinky partners online, and eventually, if things go well, we go offline. This way I can screen out the Danna-wannabes. ;)

(Danna = a Geisha patron is responsible for a large portion of her support. He may pay her class fees or her rent on her apartment in exchange for certain priviledges, usual sexual in nature. Contrary to popular belief, Geisha do NOT sleep with their casual clients.)



daddysprop247 -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/1/2006 2:11:02 PM)

sooo many factors come into play with an issue like this, many of which have been mentioned already: a greater stigma towards S/M or any other alternative sexuality in nonwhite ethnic communities (there's definitely still a huge stigma in the black community regarding being submissive, for men or women), the fact that in the west nonwhites are the minority so it figures that there will be far fewer of us "in the scene" of or offline, less of a need (in general) to shout our lifestyle identities and practices from the rooftops than our white counterparts, etc. there is also that fact that some are most comfortable interacting on or offline with those most like themselves. for instance, being black american, i know of several black-only bdsm and D/s websites, as well as at least one large offline primarily black organization. i can only assume that other nonwhite ethnic groups have similar communities.

offline, my Master and i regularly attend both D/s (primarily Master/slave) and bdsm functions, and frequently we will either be the only blacks in attendance, or 2 of very very few. of course if we attended the black-only functions it would be a different story, but we like diversity. unfortunately, our presence is often the only "diversity" to be had at the typical lifestyle events.

as for online goes, because i live a fairly isolated lifestyle as a slave, not able to socialize or "hang out" with others offline, i like to visit online lifestyle communities and share my thoughts/experiences, etc. Master otoh just does not do chatrooms or message boards as a general practice, he just does not have the need to communicate in that way. don't know if it's a Male thing, a black Male thing, or simply because he is a free person with access to others of likemind offline.



Bunkerchief -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/1/2006 4:19:55 PM)

The scene were I am is multi-racial. The munch I go to is about 60% white 40% none white. The none white 40% is broken down into, black, mainly from the Carribean, far eastern Chineese mainly but a couple of Koreans and a Japanese, also Indians. Hmm that makes it sound like an enormous munch but you get about 60 regulars and maybe something like 85 in total. Just over the bridge from where I live is a large fetish superstore I go to which I often go into to chat to the owner who is a friend from the munch and you regularly see none white customers and the owner always publicizes the munch and events. Most parties I go to are multi-racial unless they are small intimate scenes but then my play partner is Japanese so I guess I never go to a completely white scene because of that, no matter how small it is.

I'm based in Holland so I guess things are pretty liberal. The fetish store owner is convinced she would have more custom if things weren't so liberal, her theory being the scene would be seen as more kinky and spicey if things weren't so libreral but I think that is just wishful thinking.



RosaB -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/1/2006 6:40:14 PM)

And sometimes we just don't feel like beating a dead horse into the grave. Sorry, no offense intended, but I myself, tend to disappear out of boredom or I just have nothing more constructive or destructed to the threads that would be worth contributing.

I've run into situations where question of race were posed to people in munch groups that I attended. People assumed I stopped attending due to the fact that I felt uncomfortable being the only non-white person that showed up at the functions. I could only laugh hysterically, because it just never dawned on me that anyone would think such a thing. Especially since I always arrived with friends that were white and we were always extremely friendly and very huggy and chatty with each other. Personally, I don't think in terms of ethnic make up when I participate in message boards, (nor much else for that matter), I think topics and tones of conversations, I think is the site easy enough for my pc challenged mind to maneuver through.

Believe me, (optional), I figure when people want to exclude me, it's because of my personality, or they hate me because I'm so beautiful. [;)] LOL.
But as far as race, I just think some people spend their leisure time differently and it probably has nothing to do witha feeling of inclusion or exclusion. Just my opinion.

Rosa



brightspot -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/2/2006 12:43:26 AM)

quote:

But as far as race, I just think some people spend their leisure time differently and it probably has nothing to do witha feeling of inclusion or exclusion.


I wasn't speaking to the effect that people felt excluded or included[8|].

More so speaking from curiosity. I have been a member here for sometime now and when I first came it was pretty diverse racially. Which I thought was great. Now it seems to be mostly white folk(although from various countries). Nothing wrong with that, I also like learning from different caucasian countries. It just got me to thinking and wanting to know what it was like in people's real life communities and if they found that people of other races outside of caucasian practicing WIITWD were active in their communities. Or was it similar to our community here? As I experience it now.

It's kind of like "Hey, I know your out there, but where are you?".
How do people participate in this lifestyle and does their race have anything to do with how they limit themselves.

I want to thank otenba, daddysprop, and Bunkerchief for speaking about their experiences. You shared some imformation that to me
(because I prefer a diverse crowd) is very interesting.
And seeing that the three of you are fairly new, I'm glad you came onto the boards to share.
Welcome to the Boards[:)]!

*Brightspot



RosaB -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/2/2006 3:43:36 AM)

Here in why sometimes it's pointless to even try to participate. [8|]



Dollbecky -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/2/2006 3:49:13 AM)

quote:

Second, certain minorities DO have to face several kinky stereotypes and we get tired of confronting them. A great many people assume that the Black Master I know wants to abuse, and degrade White Women because he is Black. He prefers Asians actually, with a few specific nationalities. His primary submissive is also Black, but a lot people assume that her Master is a White Male. Or in my case. My nic here is the Japanese term for "tomboy". But many people don't want otenba, they want Sayuri from Memoirs of a Geisha, or they want Kwan Yin, Goddess of Death and Mercy. One of my online buds is a Jordanian Domme, veil and all. Yet many people assume she's some sort of submissive Scherezade, there to dance for them and cater to their harem inspired whims.


I find the mindset that Otenba describes here *really* interesting in a academic way(CULTURAL/ GENDER theory student here folks :P)as well as being a factor in my life given my primary partner is not white..more golden spiced honey colour really.

As for the fetish scene locally? I woulld say it is mostly representive of the racial mix of the area....
**BUT**
in this country skin tone is not a good way to judge a persons backround, some people can trace their families back to the mythic canoes that first came to this land ...and they can be as pale and milkly as me or as deep brown as chocolate:)
In fact my first thought in reading this thread was "how can you tell someones race from a picture?" after all not all pale people are "white"



orfunboi -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/2/2006 3:55:52 AM)

While i would deifinately agree with the beautiful part...i can't see my self hating you for it.

calli
who's starting to regret leaving Florida



artglfr -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/2/2006 6:44:11 AM)

I had a beautiful Black sub who was very good until We had to part, at local Kink Groups and Conventions there are Blacks that are vital people in the mix .

I do not check most profiles so I do not know or actually care what ethnicicity a Poster is if it is succinct and interesting I read.




JohnWarren -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/2/2006 7:01:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dollbecky

In fact my first thought in reading this thread was "how can you tell someones race from a picture?" after all not all pale people are "white"


It often depends on what state one is in. When I taught at the University of Southern Mississippi, I can across a state law that clearly defined me a "Negro."

Couldn't get the university to accept that on our annual "diversity statement" although.



RosaB -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/2/2006 8:27:26 AM)

Thank you for the sweet comment. Though I was just trying to inject a bit of humor, which generally seems to amuse only myself and that's just fine. It is often that I find that I find enjoyment in self satisfaction. [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

While i would deifinately agree with the beautiful part...i can't see my self hating you for it.

calli
who's starting to regret leaving Florida




KnightofMists -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/2/2006 8:30:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dollbecky

"how can you tell someones race from a picture?" after all not all pale people are "white"


hell what is white anyways? a total useless label if you ask me.

I am a human being first... Male of the species second.... and there is still some debate on the issue... but I think I am of the Asshole category third!

The color of my flesh or others is of no concern to me! Not sure why it is to others.. but frankly I don't care know their reasons.



brightspot -> RE: How is your "Community" Racially? (3/2/2006 11:49:34 AM)

quote:

In fact my first thought in reading this thread was "how can you tell someones race from a picture?" after all not all pale people are "white"


That is a good point Dollbecky. My pic for instance some people may take as a caucasian instead of someone of mixed race(French, French Canadian, Blackfoot Native American, Swedish, Norweigian).
But I doubt that is so much true here on the boards, having been here for awhile I have know people that I could tell were of color and they are not many left here, That is why I asked the question and as it pertains to peoples local scene.

*Brightspot




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