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No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legislat... - 9/15/2009 2:33:55 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Right up there near the top of the "you've GOT to be kidding me!" list of important issues being address by Congress is Louise Slaughter generating the "Decorum in the House and in Committees" Bill from her office as Chairwoman of the House Rules Committee Majority Office (Of Course!)

More than likely this will generate another 'Czar' (I think this will make 32?) level appointment from the Administration. An unsubstantiated rumor is that the office will be referenced as the 'Mod 11 Decorum Czar'.

Per the proposed key legislation; no longer can the President be called a liar or hypocrite. It was unclear if the Roger Clemins "Misremembered the facts" is allowed. The President can no longer be charged as "intellectually dishonest" or "giving aid and comfort to the enemy". In a throw-back, and perhaps preemptive act it will no longer be allowed to refer to any alleged "sexual misconduct on the President's part". Which "part" not detailed in the current House version of the Bill.

A heated partisan debate is expected.
�It is... the duty of the House to require its Members in speech or debate to preserve that proper restraint which will permit the House to conduct its business in an orderly manner and without unnecessarily and unduly exciting animosity among its Members or antagonism from those other branches of the Government with which the House is correlated.�

No more "exciting animosity"!

You can't make this up!

Now I know why scriptwriters and journalist are often quoted as providing key "insight" to what is 'REALLY' happening in Washington. They MUST be handing out old, and never used, 'West Wing' scripts to this Administration. Or would the party embarrass him with this nonsense without his knowledge and blessing?

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 9/15/2009 2:39:20 PM >
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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 2:41:14 PM   
mnottertail


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That is however; the level that our government is capable of legislating, executing and judging at, without fucking up general society.

R

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 3:16:57 PM   
Mercnbeth


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This just in....The House has voted to admonish Rep. Joe Wilson over his "You lie" outburst to President Barack Obama during the president's health care speech to Congress last week. The 240-179 vote on the resolution of disapproval reflected the sharp partisan divide over the issue.

I don't know about you, but I'm going to remember where I was when Congress made 'name calling' a vote worthy occasion.

No longer will I ever say, when the surrendering tactic of name calling is used on CM thread, that the person is being juvenile or insecure. I will however note that he/she is acting in a way that would have the current majority in Congress call for a vote of "admonish".

Joe Wilson, from unknown to forever on the Congressional Record with votes and Bills named for him and given fast track priority. I hope he gets a signed framed copy of the resolution like my grammar school got when a resolution naming us 'Best Elementary School Government Studies Group' was voted on, and passed by a slimmer majority if I remember, by our State's legislature. We went out for pizza afterward!

It does go to show what a 'super majority' can accomplish if they really wanted to. Why is it again that the Republicans are sited as the cause for preventing a similar vote on ANY version of ANY health-care Bill? Damn, if they had just thought of it, they could have attached the entire 1000+ pages to this resolution and gotten the job done. If only Speaker Nancy Pelosi had thought of that idea. Many in Congress are already on record as saying they don't read any of the Bills put in front of them in the first place - why not?

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 9/15/2009 3:19:12 PM >

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 3:31:20 PM   
MstrPBK


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I have not actually followed this in the media ... but from what is being said here ...
What about the issue of freedom of speech and the right of ones opinion (regardless of how badly ones off).
On the other hand and being objective here: has anyone ever thought that maybe Rep. Joe Wilson might have a insight that others may nut?

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 3:34:59 PM   
DomKen


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Actually this was the nice solution and it shouldn't have been used.

Interruprting any chair recognized speaker by 'outburst' is against the rules of the House and the Speaker could have had the Sergeant at Arms bar Wilson from the chamber until he had apologized on the record.

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 3:56:22 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Actually this was the nice solution and it shouldn't have been used.
Interruprting any chair recognized speaker by 'outburst' is against the rules of the House and the Speaker could have had the Sergeant at Arms bar Wilson from the chamber until he had apologized on the record.

The rule you cite must be something else that Congresswoman Slaughter, her 'House Rules Committee', and the rest who deemed it necessary instead to spend time and resources discussing the matter and voting as they did today in Congress, didn't read.

But, as Ron said, at least this keeps them occupied on something that isn't "fucking up general society".

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 4:31:13 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Right up there near the top of the "you've GOT to be kidding me!" list of important issues being address by Congress is Louise Slaughter generating the "Decorum in the House and in Committees" Bill from her office as Chairwoman of the House Rules Committee Majority Office (Of Course!)

More than likely this will generate another 'Czar' (I think this will make 32?) level appointment from the Administration. An unsubstantiated rumor is that the office will be referenced as the 'Mod 11 Decorum Czar'.

Per the proposed key legislation; no longer can the President be called a liar or hypocrite. It was unclear if the Roger Clemins "Misremembered the facts" is allowed. The President can no longer be charged as "intellectually dishonest" or "giving aid and comfort to the enemy". In a throw-back, and perhaps preemptive act it will no longer be allowed to refer to any alleged "sexual misconduct on the President's part". Which "part" not detailed in the current House version of the Bill.

A heated partisan debate is expected.
�It is... the duty of the House to require its Members in speech or debate to preserve that proper restraint which will permit the House to conduct its business in an orderly manner and without unnecessarily and unduly exciting animosity among its Members or antagonism from those other branches of the Government with which the House is correlated.�

No more "exciting animosity"!

You can't make this up!

Now I know why scriptwriters and journalist are often quoted as providing key "insight" to what is 'REALLY' happening in Washington. They MUST be handing out old, and never used, 'West Wing' scripts to this Administration. Or would the party embarrass him with this nonsense without his knowledge and blessing?


Was there anything in there about the president calling someone a jackass? I really hope the clip they just showed was faked, but somehow I don't think so.

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 4:33:46 PM   
servantforuse


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Merc, There are now 34 czars..and counting..

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 4:45:05 PM   
mnottertail


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Czar 54 where are you?

Gunther Tooty

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 4:45:38 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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Well, just when you thought it couldn't happen, congress gets dumber. I have been accused of not taking things seriously enough when it comes to politics. This certainly does not help. If nothing else this shouting, admonishment and "rules of civility" could tempt people of a certain ilk into coarse, inappropriate, mocking humor aimed at our elected officials. And I am certainly one of those people. That said:

Decorum in the House and in Committees

  • No congressman or senator will reply to a point made by a member of either house with "Yo Mama!" until he is recognized by the chair
  • The president can be referred to as a communist or a facist but not both in the same sentence
  • Referring to supporters of the Tea Party protests as teabaggers shall be allowable
  • Referring to them as "ball suckers" shall not be
  • Any congressman or senator accused of being "dickless" will have the opportunity to have the matter investigated by the committee on weights and measures
  • No congressman or senator shall refer to the president as a "tap dancing, watermelon eating, nappy headed lawn jockey" during formal debate. Call him that in the closed caucus rooms like the rest of us
  • Any congressman or senator throwing food across the floor will be held responsible for the cleaning bills of any struck by said food
  • It shall be allowable for a congressman or senator to suggest that any other member of these bodies or the president blows goats.
  • It shall not be allowable for a congressman or senator to suggest that any other member of these bodies or the president has blown a specific goat without videotaped evidence
  • Any senator or congressman found guilty of breaking these rules will be ejected before naptime and not allowed back into the chamber without a note from their mommy.
Good god what have we descended to?

< Message edited by SpinnerofTales -- 9/15/2009 4:50:17 PM >

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 4:49:23 PM   
tazzygirl


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Could be Czars arent a new idea?

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=wish_upon_a_czar

When it comes to monitoring the food supply, the Bush administration already relies on the FDA and the Department of Agriculture. As recent controversies have helped demonstrate, both have been ineffective of late. Of course, to follow the White House's reasoning, the problem isn't outdated models for food safety, but rather, the lack of a czar to oversee those outdated models for food safety.

It's a familiar tactic with this crew:

In 2001, with escalating concerns about possible attacks on our information technology infrastructure, Bush named a "cybersecurity czar."

In 2003, the president's desire to help his corporate benefactors led to the creation of a "regulatory czar" at the Office of Management and Budget. Around the same time, Bush named his first "AIDS Czar." (He didn't choose wisely -- Bush tapped Randall Tobias, the administration's former top advocate of global abstinence-only policies, who was recently forced to resign after procuring "massages" from a controversial Washington escort service.)

In 2004, faced with growing discontent over the nation's struggling manufacturing industries, Bush appointed a "manufacturing czar." (He chose the chief executive of a Nebraska company that had laid off manufacturing employees and built factories in China.)

2005 was a banner year for czars. In February, Bush responded to revelations about failed national security intelligence by creating an "intelligence czar." Shortly thereafter, we had a "bird-flu czar." A few months after that, following the tragically botched handling of the response to Hurricane Katrina, there was a "Katrina czar."


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 4:54:40 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Was there anything in there about the president calling someone a jackass? I really hope the clip they just showed was faked, but somehow I don't think so.
ORIGINAL: thishereboi



Have we really gotten to the point where we are going to debate the propriety of the President of the United States of America calling Kanye West a jackass for being mean to Taylor Swift on the MTV video music awards? Please say it aint so.

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 5:30:45 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Could be Czars arent a new idea?

I think you should have started a new thread on this subject, but hopefully a response to you won't serve to high-jack this thread and take away from the importance of the new 'Decorum Legislation' and subsequent appointment of the Decorum Czar.

No, Czars are not a "new idea" and there wasn't any representation to the contrary. Somehow though none of the prior Czars managed to believe that the US President was a terrorist directly involved in the 9/11 attack. A voice version of knee jerk reaction generates Congressional "admonishment". Accusing the President of terrorism, going as far as having your signature on record saying so - gets you appointed as a Czar for this Administration.

You see no distinction and "Bush did it!" serves as a legitimacy guidepost? It may have been what this Administration used for rationalizing almost a Billion dollars of bail out money. But it seems, like the bail out money, doing it as a multiple factor of the prior regime doesn't point to any of the anticipated "CHANGE!" does it?

Nor has the concept of Czar ever been used as a cornerstone of policy implementation. That is another notable difference because it circumvents the vetting process for the appointed Czars.

By count from your source - there were less than 10 over the entire 8 years of the Bush Administration. The wasn't any number noted, but I would think based on his commentary, if there were more - he'd have documented them. To date there have been 34 appointed in the first 8 months of this administration.

From the link:
quote:

2005 was a banner year for czars. In February, Bush responded to revelations about failed national security intelligence by creating an "intelligence czar." Shortly thereafter, we had a "bird-flu czar." A few months after that, following the tragically botched handling of the response to Hurricane Katrina, there was a "Katrina czar."


2005 was a "banner year" with, lets see 1... 2...3... appointed Czars. One for a hurricane catastrophe, where the administration was accused of lacking attention even with the Czar. The other a response to that year's fad 'flu'. The third an attempt to get all the varying 'intelligence' communities to connect the dots and prevent another terrorist attack. You'll need to take off your shoes and get a friend to get the current Administration's count of 34 to date. Stipulating that 'Servantforuse' isn't as vetted a source as your link.

In an effort to determine the integrity of your source, I tried to find any similar commentary from him, specifically along these lines quoted:

"When it comes to losing manufacturing jobs, having a Secretary of Labor isn't enough; we also need a "manufacturing czar."

"Andy Borowitz recently suggested that the White House needs a "lying czar" to "oversee all distortions and misrepresentations."" Another appropriate current time application of the concept.

"It all begins to resemble rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. When it comes to food safety, having an FDA commissioner isn't enough; we also need a "food-safety czar."

"As it turns out, the administration appears to have gone to the well one too many times."


Couldn't fine anything that documents his current position regarding the Czar issue, but I'm comfortable in concurring with his assessment if he should ever want to change his byline date. All of those statements can, and should be applied to present reality.

His current silence on the subject speaks volumes regarding his agenda.

If there was a different perspective you wanted to raise it would be a great thread topic; although the Bush Administration comparisons must be wearing thin because I note their frequency dropping. Could it be that they point to results better not brought to light?

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 5:33:30 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Louise Slaughter generating the "Decorum in the House and in Committees" Bill from her office as Chairwoman of the House Rules Committee Majority Office (Of Course!)


Is she actually proposing new legislation? The page to which you linked seems to be a recap of existing policies, and the words you highlighted are from 1909.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 5:40:56 PM   
tazzygirl


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Two points.

One....You brought up Czars. I responded. No derailment.

Two... matters not to me how many Czars they bring in, as long as they get the job done. Just found it funny that you guys keep going on and on and on and on about Czars like its something new. Even Reagan had em.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 5:42:41 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Accusing the President of terrorism, going as far as having your signature on record saying so - gets you appointed as a Czar for this Administration.
ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth



No, Merc, knowing something about green jobs and how to work them into the economy gets you appointed as a czar of green jobs. Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about. When you have to make complex decisions about complex matters, what is wrong with getting an adviser who knows something about the subject.

I think you can blame Obama's time as a college professor for this. You see, in a college, there are a lot of people, each of which knows a great deal about their particular subject. When they have a problem involving a discipline that isn't their specialty, they find someone who's specialty it is and ask them.

As for his truther or even communist viewpoints, I find that a tempest in a teapot. If he was being made secretary of state, commerce or attorney general. Strange as it may seem, the only thing I'm concerned with about an adviser on green jobs is his knowledge of green jobs. I would far prefer an adviser on a particular subject to be an expert on that subject no matter what his asshole opinions than someone who is politically pristine and doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.


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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 5:45:50 PM   
LadyAngel1


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It's not about the president being called a liar.  Anyone has the right to refer to anyone as whatever they wish.  The issue is that Joe Wilson used the forum of the House floor to do the name-calling.   While the President is addressing congress, it certainly isn't appropriate for a Representative to shout "you lie" as the president speaks.  

I don't see a problem with Congress expecting a formal apology, as they should hold someone accountable for inappropriate actions so that it is not deemed as allowable in the future.  Otherwise, why not allow every session on the House floor an open forum to shout and argue with each other as the president speaks.  There are guidelines that must be followed and every member of the House knows what they are... one just chose to ignore them.

Personally, I think Wilson made an idiot of himself and showed his level of common sense to be lacking.  I'm in South Carolina and am happy that his mostly unknown opponent has benefited from his poor judgment. 

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 5:56:59 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

the only thing I'm concerned with about an adviser on green jobs is his knowledge of green jobs.
As all of his appointments who fail the vetting process, Obama threw him under the bus as soon as his stance became public. So either the President didn't feel his knowledge was as unique to him as you think it was, or he just didn't bother paying attention to details. Feel free to pick the one best suiting the rationalization used, and required to appoint him in the first place.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

Louise Slaughter generating the "Decorum in the House and in Committees" Bill from her office as Chairwoman of the House Rules Committee Majority Office (Of Course!)

Is she actually proposing new legislation? The page to which you linked seems to be a recap of existing policies, and the words you highlighted are from 1909.

She's citing precedent for the specific language contained in her Bill.
quote:

You brought up Czars. I responded. No derailment
No, based upon precedent, it made for a convenient reference point for administering to this obviously critical issue facing the Administration. Considering his speaking schedule I appreciate it's a full time job. Do you think they'll be in the Letterman audience to insure nobody dares breach Congressional Decorum?

I would expect a Czar to be appointed in this case but didn't allude to the concepts appropriateness or historical significance.
quote:

Two points.

You missed a critical third point. Every point made by your source applies to the current administration. I appreciate being able to reference it, when the matter comes up in the future.

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 6:03:34 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

She's citing precedent for the specific language contained in her Bill.


Do you have a link to the bill, Merc? All I can find is the Rules Committee guideline that was issued, and to which you linked.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: No Health Care Bill but Anti "LIAR!" Legi... - 9/15/2009 6:04:17 PM   
servantforuse


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Jimmy Carter appointed one czar, a drug czar. Ronald Reagan also appointed one. A drug czar. That is a far cry from 34.

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