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RE: Czars - 9/16/2009 7:30:03 AM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		What's really crazy about the "czar" kerfluffle is that the term "czar" for some of these positions goes back to the Nixon administration.  It was coined by the media, not by the administrations involved.

Like mentioned above, there's no way in hell you could confirm all the positions involved.  Appointees have been around for decades.

thornhappy

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Czars - 9/16/2009 7:59:25 AM   
SteveMDFP


Posts: 4
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

quote:What have you found to be lacking in his managerial ability? Results



Results? Perhaps you forget that Obama stepped into office with an economy in comlete free-fall. There is a consensus that GDP has stopped falling. Everybody agrees that expansion of employment will be slow, regardless of policy. Obama stopped the bleeding in months, instead of the decade that FDR took to turn around the Great Depression. On this score alone, Obama deserves the title of Best President Ever.

Also, when Obama stepped into office, Iraq looked like it was going to be a US occupation for decades to come. US forces are no longer having to play police in the cities, and withdrawal from that hell-hole is now ahead of schedule.

Obama stopped the torture of detainees who were not convicted of any crime. Re-establishing respect for the Geneva Conventions after the previous administration was committing acts of torture in our name--again, on this score alone, Obama can be counted as a truly great President.

Health care in America has been broken and getting steadily worse for decades. Insurance companies have been ripping off patients, employers, and taxpayers to the tune of many billions of dollars. Obama hasn't yet fixed this problem, but excellent progress is in the works. If he succeeds in taming the abuses and helping to ensure americans all have access to essential health care without risking personal bankruptcy, he will again deserve the title of Best President Ever.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Czars - 9/16/2009 8:19:22 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Results? Perhaps you forget that Obama stepped into office with an economy in complete free-fall.

He's done well to maintain the momentum for everyone except those who had their bonuses funded by his Bail-out program.

quote:

Iraq looked like it was going to be a US occupation for decades to come.
There then, there now, no 'CHANGE!'. Amazing how those deadlines somehow get moved back as soon as they get closer.

The withdrawn troops aren't coming home by the way, they are committed to Afghanistan. What happened to talking to our enemies?

What's the goal again?
quote:

Obama stopped the torture of detainees who were not convicted of any crime
Oh, so being incarcerated in Gitmo and not being able to leave, no trial, and indefinite sentence is not "torture"?

And lets not forget what one of his 'accomplishments' will cost the average citizen. The Obama administration has privately concluded that a cap and trade law would cost American taxpayers up to $200 billion a year, the equivalent of hiking personal income taxes by about 15 percent. That is, of course, if his job qualifies as 'green' to the standards of the Administration. However pragmatic analysis would indicate that the goal is to put everyone on the government dole and this action goes a long way in insuring that will happen.
quote:

Insurance companies have been ripping off patients, employers, and taxpayers to the tune of many billions of dollars
Granted and the result of any of the pending Bills would be to eliminate that loophole and insure the government takes charge of "ripping off patients, employers, and taxpayers". How that will solve or even improve current health care in the US is missing from any of the plans.
quote:

Obama hasn't yet fixed
You only left off the word 'anything' and we'd be in agreement.

(in reply to SteveMDFP)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Czars - 9/16/2009 5:28:07 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
And just to pile on the "results" notion, how many of his appointees have had to resign when they were vetted by the new media, a job his administration doesnt seem capable of doing?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Czars - 9/16/2009 5:59:22 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Check out the Reagan administration for problem members (I think it was over 100 dismissed or indicted.)

They're probably trading off the need for the position vs time to place person in position.

Did you hear about the questionnaire required for a position in the administration?  It even wanted all online usernames, including chat names.  And any embarrassing emails or diary entries: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/politics/13apply.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin

I doubt anyone on the boards could make it.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Czars - 9/17/2009 2:52:54 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Too many cooks... um, right.

Obviously, some people have forgotten just what kind of shape this country was in a mere 9 months ago when we finally pried it from the scabberous clutches of Bush/Cheany.


Dont be so silly Mars, that was "Too many crooks" hardly the same as cooks at all.

(in reply to MarsBonfire)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Czars - 9/17/2009 4:30:56 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Check out the Reagan administration for problem members (I think it was over 100 dismissed or indicted.)

They're probably trading off the need for the position vs time to place person in position.

Did you hear about the questionnaire required for a position in the administration?  It even wanted all online usernames, including chat names.  And any embarrassing emails or diary entries: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/politics/13apply.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin

I doubt anyone on the boards could make it.



Obviously it isnt being used to vet the czars. Why dont you tell us about the "problem members" of the Reagan administration in his first 8 months.

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Czars - 9/17/2009 6:45:53 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		A timeline?  No.  The main sources for the count come from 2 books that I don't have, nor do I see any electronic versions hanging around.  I've seen quotes online that the total count (including indictments, not just convictions) is around 200.  Wiki has a rundown with more details here. 

Here's the tightest rundown I could find: (I figure it'll be disregarded, coming from that source). 

20 IN ONE DEPT OF HUD RESIGNED RATHER THAN FACE INDICTMENT FOR TAKING KICKBACKS

INVESTIGATIONS OF IMPORTANT OFFICIALS

Attorney General—Cabinet--two OIC investigations-no charge
Asst. Attorney General—No Charge
Secretary of Defense—Cabinet—Pardoned
Asst. Sec. Of Defense—Guilty--to Prison
Secretary of Labor—Cabinet—Not Guilty
Secretary of Interior—Cabinet—Guilty—fined
National Security Agency--Director----Cabinet—Guilty
National Security Agency--Director----Cabinet—Guilty—Pardoned
National Security Agency—Director---Cabinet---Resigned
Asst. Secretary of Navy—--Guilty—Fined
Dep. Secretary of Air Force-Guilty—Fined
Director of CIA—Cabinet—Died during investigation
Asst. Director of CIA—Guilty—Fined
Director of HUD—Cabinet--Pled Fifth
Asst. Director of HUD—Guilty
Director of Superfund—Guilty—to Prison
Director of FAA—Guilty-Fined
Director of NASA-Guilty—Fined
Special Asst to President—Guilty
Communications Director for President—Guilty
EPA Administrator—Resigned
Asst. Secretary of State—Guilty

9 Cabinet Members—

REAGANGATES (32)

Illwind-gate (biggie)
Superfund-gate
Hud
Wed-Tech
Interior
Labor
Oval Office
Lt Colonel
Iran-Contra
Basement
Faa
Nasa
Pentagon
Korea
S & L (folks! I think we hit the jackpot—come and get it the vaults are unguarded)
Epa
Postal
Agriculture
Hhs
Home loan
Veterans
Fema
Legal Services
Civil Rights
Transportation
Product Safety
Economic Development
Synthetic Fuels
Social Security
Land Management
Osha
Cia

Sources—
Haynes Johnson book “Sleepwalking”

“When The Pentagon Was For Sale”—Andy Pasztor—(awesome list of criminals). Want Earmarks. Loaded

2 books titled “Scandals”
“The Clothes Lost The Emperor”-Paul Slansky (day by day chronology of 1980’s)
“Stealing From America”—
“Landslide”-Jane Mayer & Doyle McManus

Nathan Miller book states 233 were investigated
Haynes Johnson states 138 were --charged--indicted--found guilty -- investigated

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Czars - 9/17/2009 7:26:40 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Give President Obama time, Thorn.  It took Reagan 8 years to rack that up.  I have faith in the Chicago element.  We've already had someone try to sell Obama's Senate seat.  Bonus points for style?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Czars - 9/17/2009 8:49:56 PM   
willowspirit


Posts: 164
Joined: 6/20/2005
From: U.S.A.-Minnesota
Status: offline 		Before the election I was telling people how Obama has more of a "World View" than a USA view...
Socialism is creeping closer and closer... make us all dependent so we keep them re-elected, LARGE and in Charge, and the social programs well-funded by OUR blood, sweat and tears.

So much of what made America great & the place everyone flocked to, is being eroded by turning us equal with the Europeans. Too much pressure and risk and criticism to lead the world!

What's next.. bye bye dollar hello Euro?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Czars - 9/18/2009 2:24:32 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willowspirit

Socialism is creeping closer and closer... make us all dependent so we keep them re-elected, LARGE and in Charge, and the social programs well-funded by OUR blood, sweat and tears.



"OUR blood sweat and tears" Is America now populated to two groups of people then, the haves and have nots. Is it not one Nation still ?

On a side note.

I get sick of reading bullshit comments ( not yours ) which lump socialism and communism under the same banner, and use that fear to help the rich stay rich.

Many on hear moan about more regulation,  as well as the bailouts. Yet refuse to see that less regulation in the finance markets caused the credit crunch and the need for bailouts.

(in reply to willowspirit)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Czars - 9/18/2009 3:30:55 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I hate the term.

I also hate the word "homeland"

Borrowing words from the commies - come on- we have no creativity left to make up new terms?

Why is it we need so much governance?

Supposedly govt was too big in 1980.  So 29 years later we shrunk how much?

lol

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Czars - 9/18/2009 7:05:37 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

Main Entry: com·mu·nism
Pronunciation: \ˈkäm-yə-ˌni-zəm, -yü-\
Function: noun
Etymology: French communisme, from commun common
Date: 1840
1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2 capitalized a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d : communist systems collectively

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communism

Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

someone want to explain how we are moving into any of these areas?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Czars - 9/18/2009 7:26:17 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Is America now populated to two groups of people then, the haves and have nots.


More and more, yes.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 34
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