It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither.

It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (Full Version)

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SteelofUtah -> It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 9:04:11 AM)
Howdy folks. Okay here is one of those things that we all come across from time to time, some of us do it ourselves, and some of us will honestly believe we don't do it at all. The Inability to Admit or accept that there is a problem and see it for what it is. Okay here are a few examples. In another thread there is talk about someone having a much harder time with a much lighter scene and asking why something like this would happen. Many similar suggestions were given and it would seem the crux is that the person was focused elsewhere and so the lighter scene was preceived more painful due to lack of focus. Following me so far? Okay well then the person comes back and says "But the person said this wasn't really an issue" Which is very possible, however there are two possible issues here. Either the person who was in pain was unable to admit even to themselves that they were actually in pain and this is what caused the scene to go south, or the person getting the advice is not willing to accept that something as simple as removing them from the thing that was giving them pain could have made this problem better. I am Fasinated with this concept. I have been thinking a lot about this lately as I see many people who it seems obvious what the problem actually is but they are unable to see it, or they have so many reasons why it can't be that they aren't even willing to play around with the idea that it might. I see this in BOTH sides of the kneel but most commonly in the Top. It seems obvious that if something isn't working and you are in charge of what gets done and you keep doing the same thing or expecting the same thing to illicit a different response then you are practising insanity. On the bottom side I find it this usually happens when a sub wants to feel a particular way and when that doesn't happen begins looking to anything other than themselves for the answer to this, I see it commonly when they are looking for a romantic ideal that exists primarily in the Fantasy the Reality offten just can't compare too. My Question is how offten when you receive numerous suggestions that something specific seems to be wrong do you take to heart even if you disagree that it could actually be the problem? Do you ever take the time to admit that you might have something wrong somewhere in your thought process and try to address the issue in the simplest way simply by changeing the stimuli? Does any of this make any sense to you? Edited to add: The Main point of this thread was to ask, do you sometimes think that you are quick to determin a TRUTH and stick to it rather than accept that you might be wrong about the whole thing? Steel

leadership527 -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 9:41:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah The Main point of this thread was to ask, do you sometimes think that you are quick to determin a TRUTH and stick to it rather than accept that you might be wrong about the whole thing? That would, mercifully, be pretty rarely for me. I don't know that I have a lot of TRUTHS in my life. I have things that seem pretty likely and things that seem less so. Carol loves me. That is incontrovertible and uncontestable in my head. Everything else... well... life is change. In my head, I can hold onto a current truth even as I poke and prod at it, seeking a different truth. I don't experience any cognitive dissonance doing so. If that new truth becomes more likely in my head than the old one, I am not at all attached to it. The fact that it was my pet idea up till a moment ago means little compared to the fact that I now perceive it as wrong.

DesFIP -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 9:51:07 AM)
This is why in therapy the therapist doesn't just tell you what the problem is, because you aren't ready to hear it. You have to come to the realization yourself in order to own the problem. It's common in people, whose who do what it is we do and those who don't. Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt.

thetammyjo -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 9:52:32 AM)
One of the reasons I became a historian is that historical thinking comes very easily to me. Part of that is realizing how complex things are, wanting to gather data before you make a educated guess, gathering more data to fine tune that guess into a theory or if you get wide acceptance of it it becomes a fact. As an ancient historian I also know there are limits to how much data is available. Very similar for how the human mind works. We have limits on how much and how quickly we can process data but we have the added crutch of being limited emotionally by experiences and intellectually by training. After almost forty years there are several things in my life and my mind and my heart that are set in stone and one of these is that I'm pretty intense, changeable, and yet oddly steadfast. I have no problem fixing my theories when the data shows they are incorrect but first I have to be open to accepting new data and there are ways that works well and ways it does not work at all.

IronBear -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 9:57:20 AM)
Thanks for this thread Steel, this is something I ponder about too. When things go pear shaped about me, usually regarding people and their attitude towards me with errant drivers demanding right of way etc., the first thing I do is to ask myself if I am at fault in part and if so I tend to apportion some of the blame on myself and the rest on that other person/s. Doing this I tend to become more aware how i may affect others and especially if I am in a shit stirring mood or being playful (like a carthorse on steroids ~ my ability to be playful as compared to most people I know, is sadly lacking so I tend to stay away from forums and other areas where people are deliberately playful). I try to teach this same useful technique of first looking at the self and your own effect on those about you as part of teaching good communications and conflict resolution. I base this on a simple fact, it takes two or more to have a dispute, argument or even a war. You don't need to be actively contributing because even passive responses can and does elicit often more violent or greater verbal responses.

porcelaine -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 10:00:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah My Question is how offten when you receive numerous suggestions that something specific seems to be wrong do you take to heart even if you disagree that it could actually be the problem? Do you ever take the time to admit that you might have something wrong somewhere in your thought process and try to address the issue in the simplest way simply by changeing the stimuli? Does any of this make any sense to you? Edited to add: The Main point of this thread was to ask, do you sometimes think that you are quick to determin a TRUTH and stick to it rather than accept that you might be wrong about the whole thing? i see truth as an evolutionary concept. a problem usually has many sides and attacking one portion leaves others unaddressed. if the problem in question is a habit the assault must be continual, otherwise the job is left unfinished and eventually the old behavior patterns will resurface. i don't believe people are blind at all to what one might believe they cannot see. i do think that the payoff for ignoring, denying, or suppressing an issue is often greater than the effort it would take to face it head on. they've usually conjured a list of reasons why change is unnecessary, cannot be done, or will never occur. their commitment to this line of reasoning is far stronger than the pain the problem is causing. i find my life offers a series of lessons. some i learn and others are recurring sob's that become an irritant. that's when king kong is pounding on my door saying wake up. you've ignored this situation too long and now you have a real mess on your hands. i'd like to say i don't need to be clobbered across the head much, but i digress it happens. maybe i'm fortunate and my mentor calls me on it, or a friend makes a comment, but usually it is an internal voice that's had enough of my nonsense. when the pain rears its head that is when the truth is whispered in my ear. whether i choose to listen is another story. which of course relates to holding on to something or investing the time and effort to bring change about. what i've found in the past is that restlessness is usually a manifestation of when things have gone too far. i start to teeter and find myself very skittish. if i've stuck to a particular truth or taken a stance and it is outdated, i have a response that is hard to ignore. but once i face the issue, i've noticed that everything starts to calm. i feel a great sense of release and relief. sometimes i wonder what took me so long, but maybe the discomfort is necessary, i don't know. admitting i'm wrong is the most important part of change. doing so without the expectation of response, favor, forgiveness, or anything for my benefit is what inspires my confessions. if i attach a desire to a change in heart or way of thinking and it does not occur, will my behavior revert or continue to evolve? i don't know, but i do know that i have a very firm belief about admitting when i'm wrong and making an apology as well. it offers a chance for liberation and real growth, things i'm very interested in doing. there's something else that i find characteristic of the kneel. this journey is about freeing myself from all the unnecessary bs. clinging to behaviors that are no longer beneficial and are an actual hindrance to a deeper state of surrender are in opposition to my goal. when i find myself clutching too fiercely i'm reminded of this and start looking inward. acknowledging the problem is the first part, then i determine if this is something i can do alone or if assistance will be required. it is easy to get stuck on that portion without taking a step forward. i suppose this is where accountability comes in. i can look to others for this, but i'm most accountable to myself. the mirror can only be as useful as i permit. if i'm hellbent on living a lie or seeing a reflection that does not exist, i'd have to wonder why i'm submitting at all, and why the deception is more important than my progression. porcelaine

pyroaquatic -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 10:58:18 AM)
Thank you Steelie. My life so far has taken me to many places. Things that I once thought were true about the human race have proved to be false. Strike that, replace human race with reality. There is too much data to comprehend in just a thimble of reality. As our tools evolve so do our observations. Sixty years from now (if we are still here) our decedents will look back and laugh. "We were soooo wrong, I cannot believe they thought those things." Or not. I could be wrong about that. [:D]

DemonKia -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 11:14:03 AM)
What Leadership said, quoted below, with a caveat. Talking about this in a theoretical space is one thing, but my experience is that people talk a good game. This stuff your talking about, Steel, tends to really be displayed in the living, breathing, interacting moment, when emotions are flaring & when calm, dispassionate reason is less available . . . . . (Oh, & I do get 'stuck' in how I see stuff sometimes, but I'm also both pretty decent at 'unsticking' myself & at being open to outside info . .. . . . ) quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah The Main point of this thread was to ask, do you sometimes think that you are quick to determin a TRUTH and stick to it rather than accept that you might be wrong about the whole thing? That would, mercifully, be pretty rarely for me. I don't know that I have a lot of TRUTHS in my life. I have things that seem pretty likely and things that seem less so. Carol loves me. That is incontrovertible and uncontestable in my head. Everything else... well... life is change. In my head, I can hold onto a current truth even as I poke and prod at it, seeking a different truth. I don't experience any cognitive dissonance doing so. If that new truth becomes more likely in my head than the old one, I am not at all attached to it. The fact that it was my pet idea up till a moment ago means little compared to the fact that I now perceive it as wrong.

CreativeDominant -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 12:28:04 PM)
Interesting thread, Steel. I've been told that I see things only in black and white by the same person(s) who've told me that one of the most annoying/endearing things about me is the way I look at things from all angles. (??!??!) There are basic principles that I operate from. Those principles do not change but the outlying, supporting factors do. That doesn't mean that there are not faults with those principles or the object of those principles but overall, the good of those principles or subject of those principles outweighs the bad. The statement that you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything is one of those supporting factors. e. g. This is why I don't support supremacy of any sort, male or female. I believe in a hierarchal dynamic...one leads, another follows...but I don't believe it is determined by the supremacy of the gender. There are things that I hold to be true and will continue to hold true until someone shows me definitively that I am wrong in my belief. That is not as difficult nor as easy as it sounds. All I ask is for your argument to be more reasoned than mine, have more credible sources than mine, have more back-up than just your opinion. While I value the opinions of those around me, I value the opinions of those whose opinion was shaped by more than one source. I am a conservative...but that does not stop me from listening to the news on ABC, CBS, NBC...it does not stop me from occasionally reading an article in Newsweek or Time. I want to know that the information I make my decions on comes from more than just my gut feeling or from sources that I would be more likely to already agree with. This is one reason why I read not just those who post that I often find myself in agreement with but also those who I more usually find myself in disagreement with because sometimes, those folks arguments make better sense than my own and I realize that I have been wrong.

stella41b -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 1:08:19 PM)
I follow perhaps a much more Eastern approach in my thinking.. I find blame and fault to be a waste of time and energy, it's confrontational and rarely achieves the intended results. 'You should have', 'you could have' and 'why didn't you' are just as redundant phrases to me as 'I should have', 'I could have' or 'why didn't I'. Whenever something has gone south I usually notice it and become aware, so telling me that it has gone south or who caused it to go south is somewhat irrelevant to me, because I'm far more interested in why it's gone south and here I examine both my own participation in this and that of others. Every problem to me has a solution, doesn't matter how complex the problem is, where the conflict lies, there is always a solution and all it takes is observation, critical thinking a bit of imagination and further attempts and effort to find the solution. Whenever people have relationships and it doesn't matter here whether it's with another person or with an inanimate object there's always some sort of pattern, a habit, a cycle. When you're cleaning a room or a house you're looking at one pattern and looking for signs of another pattern, and when you look at a relationship between two people again you are looking at a pattern and looking for another pattern. People go through cycles in relationships with other people and they also go through cycles when dealing with their inanimate objects. Things change when you break a pattern or cycle with both a positive or negative effect. For example, you can't find your keys. Why can't you find your keys? Because you broke your pattern and because you broke your pattern your keys aren't where you expect them to be and you won't find them until you start looking for that new or current pattern. Using a computer is another example, your computer won't boot up because you broke a pattern and you need to look at what you did and try to establish the new pattern to find a solution. And so it is when dealing with other people. It works the other way too. Ever ask yourself 'why is this always happening to me?' or 'why is this happening again to me?' You're caught in another cycle or pattern and nothing is going to change until you either change the pattern or break the cycle or.. in a relationship, come across someone who breaks that pattern or cycle for you. That's why I don't really agree with the statement 'you are the only constant in your relationships'. The only things which are constant or repetitive in relationships are the cycles and patterns formed. When you are forming or developing another relationship with someone else two sets of patterns and cycles come together, your's and their's to create a new pattern and new cycles. If you were the constant element in all your relationships then I would assume that you would be able to create the same patterns and cycles with different people and somehow I just don't see this as being possible. We are all individuals. So too are our relationships, even if they do appear similar. Similar is not the same. Recognizing and identifying patterns relies very heavily on perception and being perceptive. A can of Coke to me is a red and silver aluminium can containing a brownish fizzy drink which I assume it is to everyone else. Not much problem with concrete objects. 'There's no toilet paper in the bathroom' is only disputed if you didn't see the toilet paper and it's there. However with abstract things and concepts it's more difficult, as people can perceive abstract things differently from others. We even perceive each other differently. My grandmother to me was a loving and kind woman, but to one of my aunts she was a battleaxe. Need I mention Michael Jackson here as another example? So yes, sometimes I'm introspective and look within myself as a cause for the problem. But sometimes I don't, and even when I hear many opinions disagreeing with me I won't change. Bear in mind that when I first started out in theatre I received rejections from almost every literary agent in the UK, masses of theatres and even back in 1994 an eminent Warsaw theatre director told me that he was sure that as long as he was living I would never have a play staged in Warsaw. However in 1999 I had plays running in two other Warsaw theatres, have set up two small theatres in Warsaw which still exist and as I write this have a production in Italy and another one just started in Spain. Next year I celebrate 20 years of artistic work which wouldn't be happening if I'd have listened to others and given up. But also as I write this I have completely screwed up a casting call, it's a complete and total shambles and what I thought last week was going to be simple has become so complicated that I don't even want to think about it. I want to disappear to somewhere like the Welsh mountains and come back next week but I can't. Don't know how as yet, all I know is that at some point I will find a solution, and that's all that matters. So yes, the OP does make sense to me, though it's a bit too much sense for my liking.

Mercnbeth -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 1:51:16 PM)
quote: Edited to add: The Main point of this thread was to ask, do you sometimes think that you are quick to determine a TRUTH and stick to it rather than accept that you might be wrong about the whole thing? When I get soup at a restaurant I always put salt into it before I even taste it. The 'Truth' is - I know I like my soup more salty than most. In that instance, the reality behind the "truth" affects nobody but me. When I make other decisions, especially those affecting others, I'll use every resource at my disposal; people, reference materials, anything. The sources I seek out are those in opposition to the 'truth' I believe, and/or the answer I'm leaning toward. If I can't find someone who disagrees with me, I'll phrase the question to get them to consider the opposing view. I want to be challenged against what I think I know and consider my "truth". I think in reality, I don't think I'm looking for another's truth. I'm trying to make sure I thought of all the variables that led me to the opinion or decision I consider "truth". By the same token I have a love/hate relationship with being wrong. Love it - because I learned something. Hate it - because I feel I should have thought of whatever it was that made me wrong and made the right decision in the first place. Unfortunately, there is little to distinguish the silly, little 'wrongs', from the 'big' ones. I get just at angry at myself for a decision leading to getting in the wrong traffic lane at a red light (From experience, I NEVER get behind anyone driving a Honda!); as I do when I pick a wrong partner for a business venture. Maybe there is no perfect "truth". People have told me over the years that you can't be perfect. However, striving for perfection is a much better goal than striving for the alternative or mediocrity. A rational mind keeps you from going crazy in the attempt, but meanwhile, the desire for perfection keeps you motivated. Same goes for the moving target of "truth". Look at it this way, a perfect score in golf is 18 - Perfect! Yet nobody's ever obtained it. Yet everyone who plays still aims for the little flag. Maybe you end up in the woods, the water, or sand; but you try to the best of your abilities to avoid those things. Same goes for truth. If you aim for it, at least your desire was pure, if not your ability. When it comes to relying on other people decisions are much easier. I expect nothing from anyone. I rely on nobody. I expect nobody to live up to any responsibility or commitment. That philosophy makes for a much happier life. As I see it, I'm much happier expecting nothing and being pleasantly, albeit rarely, surprised; versus constantly disappointed. "Wait a second," you say, "what about beth? How does she fit into those statements?" Well, truth is that beth's a prototype advanced version of the 'Real Doll'and after six years I *ALMOST* trust her 'truth'. quote: Does any of this make any sense to you? Steel, After reading the OP, are you SURE that the problem with the question posed when we were on Rev. Mel's show was caused by the guy reading the question? [8\|]

MMagic -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 2:00:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah Howdy folks. Okay here is one of those things that we all come across from time to time, some of us do it ourselves, and some of us will honestly believe we don't do it at all. The Inability to Admit or accept that there is a problem and see it for what it is. Okay here are a few examples. In another thread there is talk about someone having a much harder time with a much lighter scene and asking why something like this would happen. Many similar suggestions were given and it would seem the crux is that the person was focused elsewhere and so the lighter scene was preceived more painful due to lack of focus. Following me so far? Okay well then the person comes back and says "But the person said this wasn't really an issue" Which is very possible, however there are two possible issues here. Either the person who was in pain was unable to admit even to themselves that they were actually in pain and this is what caused the scene to go south, or the person getting the advice is not willing to accept that something as simple as removing them from the thing that was giving them pain could have made this problem better. I am Fasinated with this concept. I have been thinking a lot about this lately as I see many people who it seems obvious what the problem actually is but they are unable to see it, or they have so many reasons why it can't be that they aren't even willing to play around with the idea that it might. I see this in BOTH sides of the kneel but most commonly in the Top. It seems obvious that if something isn't working and you are in charge of what gets done and you keep doing the same thing or expecting the same thing to illicit a different response then you are practising insanity. On the bottom side I find it this usually happens when a sub wants to feel a particular way and when that doesn't happen begins looking to anything other than themselves for the answer to this, I see it commonly when they are looking for a romantic ideal that exists primarily in the Fantasy the Reality offten just can't compare too. My Question is how offten when you receive numerous suggestions that something specific seems to be wrong do you take to heart even if you disagree that it could actually be the problem? Do you ever take the time to admit that you might have something wrong somewhere in your thought process and try to address the issue in the simplest way simply by changeing the stimuli? Does any of this make any sense to you? Edited to add: The Main point of this thread was to ask, do you sometimes think that you are quick to determin a TRUTH and stick to it rather than accept that you might be wrong about the whole thing? Steel .... I know I don't. I like absolute brutal truth and I give it too. I often ask people they they lie to themselves. I know in some situations, as I've said before, it's necessary to lie, but where pain is concerned and the way you described it. I'd say go with truth. Danger lies therein if you don't.

Andalusite -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/17/2009 7:10:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah Okay well then the person comes back and says "But the person said this wasn't really an issue" Which is very possible, however there are two possible issues here. Either the person who was in pain was unable to admit even to themselves that they were actually in pain and this is what caused the scene to go south, or the person getting the advice is not willing to accept that something as simple as removing them from the thing that was giving them pain could have made this problem better. ... I see this in BOTH sides of the kneel but most commonly in the Top. It seems obvious that if something isn't working and you are in charge of what gets done and you keep doing the same thing or expecting the same thing to illicit a different response then you are practising insanity. Umm, since I'm the one who posted the thread in question (it's fairly obvious), I can say that she was apparently in pain, and said it hurt (when I asked), at the time. She wasn't anywhere close to safewording out, crying, screaming, etc. I tried three different toys for 30 seconds to a minute each, and while it hurt, she said at the time, during aftercare afterwards, and on the phone when I spoke with her since, that it was still within the realm of "good pain," and was a positive experience in general. She was just super-sensitive! I kept it extremely light since I noticed the way she was reacting, then switched non-pain/impact-oriented play, and she was back to normal after we cleaned things up there and returned to the other station. I've played a lot as both a top and a bottom, and while tolerance does shift for various reasons, it hasn't been that dramatic before for me or any of my previous partners, even if we were in a challenging position, or were a little tense. While we were actually playing, she didn't mention her neck - she said afterward that she hadn't realised she was tensing it up while we were in the middle of things, it was only after she got out of the sling that she noticed her neck was a little stiff. I thought it was also possible that the way that her legs were stretched might have made them more sensitive, due to the position she was in, or that the feeling of swinging in the air a bit might have some effect.

KnightofMists -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/18/2009 7:15:06 AM)
I have found the less a person is focused on being right and the more they are focused on getting a desired result.... the more they tend to open their mind to other possibiliities in a given situation to get those desired results. I am more a results orientated person... and If my current way is not getting the desired result... I have to consider other options....

SteelofUtah -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/18/2009 7:32:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite Umm, since I'm the one who posted the thread in question (it's fairly obvious), I can say that she was apparently in pain, and said it hurt (when I asked), at the time. And this thread was not intended to question your actions or those of your bottom. Actually it was just your thread that started my head rolling on this topic. To Clearify I don't think anything that was in your thread was right or wrong it was just something I have been thinking about lately. I have had bottoms tell me they were fine and actually believe it but as you stated the lighter scene was enough to bring them to tears where before a 2X4 was required to illicit the same reaction. The part that interested me the most is that in your thread the same answer came up like 4 or 5 times and your response was what your bottom said that this wasn't an issue. Now Obvioulsy it was. It would seem easier to believe that the pain the swing was putting the bottom on was making them hypersensitive to the play that you were engaging in. This is the easiest to accept answer unless there is a newly found diagnosis of Fibromyalgia (SP?) then it would seem the easiest path to answer is that the swing was the common denominator that sent the scene south. The Point I was getting at in this thread was that as it stands the Bottom was either unable to accept or unwilling to state that the swing had a serious part in the discomfort and hypersensitivity to the scene. Also there is you who is taking the word of the bottom, and also (From your thread, not from what you wrote here) being more willing to be looking for some other reason even when 4 or 5 people have suggested the same common denominator for what this might be. The question is why are you and your bottom so ready to throw out the Flashing red light in front of you "The Swing" to search for a less obvious reason for the Hyper Sensitivity. As I said I notice this a LOT it happens all the time, it isn't BAD and I'm not cruisifing anyone I am just curious why we look for some hidden reason when the obvious one is screaming to be recognised even when the Top and Bottom aren't willing to accept it as the cause of the problem. No Finger Pointing.... just a natural curiosity. Steel

NuevaVida -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/18/2009 7:38:47 AM)
I really only just began truly living my life a few years ago. Some life tragedies, big life changes, therapy and traveling helped me see truths I had never looked at before. Particularly in this past year I've had the opportunity to really understand what is good and what is bad for me, and to hold fast to those things. I used to question myself a lot, and by that I mean second guess, and yet I would discount any observer's advice or opinion (that was contrary to my path) as false, or wrong. Now I don't. I seek the honest opinions of those I trust and take them into serious consideration. While I have a much better read on myself than ever before, I remain open to understanding that at times I still may not be seeing the whole picture, so I will weigh what my loved ones are telling me. I may agree or disagree after that, but I will still go through that process. KOM touched on the need to be right. I would much rather live in honesty than "right"ness. If I'm wrong about something, I want to know it, and change what needs changing. I'm also willing to accept that my observations about someone else may be wrong, too. It works in both directions.

Andalusite -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/18/2009 7:49:42 AM)
I agree with all of you that the swing was the cause (specifically muscular tension from either her neck or her legs/butt) but she said outright that it wasn't painful. It was mildly uncomfortable until she shifted so that her head wasn't supported, but it didn't actively hurt to hold her head up. I'm certainly open to finding out I am wrong about something. However, I don't see how you or anyone else on the internet can possibly know better than she does how she felt, or know how she reacted better than I did when I could actually see, hear, and feel what she was doing. I probably worded it badly, and I take responsibility for that, but the reactions were way out of proportion to how she actually felt and responded. I've had other people insist, even in large groups, that I'm not bisexual, that I was submissive (back when I hadn't reacted submissively toward anyone, and didn't want to), that I'm fat (even though I'm a size 5) and other patently absurd things. I pretty much feel that this reaction is in a similar category. sighs

MasterFireMaam -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/18/2009 10:15:11 AM)
Honestly, I think this whole process is a human one, one that we must have in place to meet the lessons in life we are to meet. Egoic things keep us from seeing the forest for the trees and ego can work in many mysterious ways. It's not just dealing with bravado but shows up in areas of low self esteem. Whenever the "I" or "me" gets in the way, whether it is you implication for the Top of, "I can't be wrong," or your implication of the bottom of, "I can't be right," it's the ego. There's also a piece of psychology that I can never remember the name of which states there are for areas of knowledge for and about an individual. 1) Stuff we know and everyone knows. 2) Stuff we know that no one knows. 3) Stuff everyone knows and we don't know. 4) stuff that neither we nor any one else knows. Clearly, this is an example of the third kind. (HA! Close Encounters!) So, while we see these things happening, there's really no way to stop them. In my opinion, they shouldn't be stopped. If our opinions are asked for, we can state them, but once given, what the person does with them is up to them and has nothing to do with the quality of advice and everything to do with how the WANT to perceive things. Master Fire

Kalista07 -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/18/2009 3:40:09 PM)
Steel, i have a somewhat 'different' perspective on this whole truth telling issue. My truth is not necessarily your truth. And that has become okay with me. It's none of my business what your truth is or how you apply it to your life. My responsibility to me and the people in my life is to remain ever vigilent of my actions and behaviors and the impact that those may have on the people around me. One of the principles i use to guide my life by says something like, "i never just do nothing..i do the next right thing, willing to do what God would have me do".... My philosophy is as long as i maintain that level of willingness i will not develop such a huge level of arrogance that you are describing in which i am unable or unwilling to look at myself or my behaviors. Kali

Rhodes85 -> RE: It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither. (9/19/2009 9:54:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah The Main point of this thread was to ask, do you sometimes think that you are quick to determin a TRUTH and stick to it rather than accept that you might be wrong about the whole thing? I suggest the answer to this question is on the message board for the flat earth society website. Seriously, I was looking through it earlier tonight and wanted to bang my head against a wall after reading some of their 'theories' The point being that with many people, once they get an idea in their head there is no changing it, no matter how rediculous it might be. Remember, an open mind is the essence of intellect.

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