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The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/17/2009 8:02:45 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		This is a question sparked by some of the replies in Steel's thread "It's Not a Lie.... but it ain't the truth neither." in this forum.

I am oft curious when people tell me they are truthful or never lie if there are some circumstances where they would still use the blunt truth or if they would couch it in less dramatic or hurtful terms or again of they would water the truth down to play down the seriousness of it or would they tell a lie.

Lets imagine that you are a medical specialist and you discovered an inoperable cancer in a patient which gave the patient only a short time to live. How would you break this bad news to both patient and next of kin? Under what circumstances would you deviate from the raw truth in any situation mundane or kink?


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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/17/2009 8:24:26 PM   
kccuckoldmist


Posts: 97
Joined: 7/1/2009
Status: offline 		Well I am one that is of the strong belief everyone lies to some extent. My observation for the pure truth tellers that they tend to forget the lies they have told or make justifications that often include judgment and out there assumptions to fool themselves that the truth was spoken.

As an actual medical person who actually too often has to tell horrible news to family we are taught and learn very early that to never ever give false hope. What we are taught to is to be as honest as we can while telling it in a compassionate manner. Generally speaking the family will latch onto any possible good thing and take it from there to create their own false hope.

I am rarely willing to deviate from the truth the bigger the thing that is happening is. I am more likely to deviate if I am less sure or do not think I know all the fact of the situation or what the other people think. I will tend to lie not to hurt others then to make something easier to me.


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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/17/2009 8:29:41 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Lets imagine that you are a medical specialist and you discovered an inoperable cancer in a patient which gave the patient only a short time to live. How would you break this bad news to both patient and next of kin? Under what circumstances would you deviate from the raw truth in any situation mundane or kink?



As the recipient, I prefer the truth every time.

My Dad died of cancer 3 years ago.  His oncologist continued to tell him and  us, "I'm not God. I can't tell you how far you are in the process".  She repeated this until a week before he died.  It really was nice when another doctor I gave his stats to told me "He is dying, and probably won't live more than 6 months." (that was 3 months before he died).  I like knowing what I have to work with.  Guess-work was never something I excelled at.

I try to be honest whenever possible, and as tactful as possible.  There are times (like at work, to the boss) I might tell a white lie, but I prefer to live in the truth.  It's so much easier and more refreshing.


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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/17/2009 8:42:22 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

Lets imagine that you are a medical specialist and you discovered an inoperable cancer in a patient which gave the patient only a short time to live. How would you break this bad news to both patient and next of kin?


"The tests results have unfortunately revealed that you have an inoperable tumor. While normally this type of cancer will shorten a lifespan considerably there are some experimental procedures we could try if you are willing. I do suggest though that you start to get your affairs in order. We will do all that we can though to eradicate this illness. Don't give up."

I don't believe you always have to be blunt or hurtful to be truthful. There are ways of being truthful while still making sure the person understands and can see it in a less negative light.



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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/17/2009 10:16:42 PM   
Ialdabaoth


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From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		It's not just a matter of truth vs. lies.

There are plenty of ways that I can tell you the absolute, blunt truth - and you won't believe it.

If I tell you the truth, knowing it will cause you to believe something other than the truth, am I really being honest?

Similarly, if I tell you something that isn't actually true, but that leads you to the truth faster than telling you truth directly would, am I really lying?

You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/17/2009 10:23:10 PM   
sravaka


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quote:

If I tell you the truth, knowing it will cause you to believe something other than the truth, am I really being honest?

Similarly, if I tell you something that isn't actually true, but that leads you to the truth faster than telling you truth directly would, am I really lying?


Interesting....   "expedient means," (upaya) as Buddhists might say.

The question to me is, how do you *know* what your words will lead others to?
And why do you interact with these people who are in need of being gamed?

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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 12:06:19 AM   
Elipsis


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quote:


Lets imagine that you are a medical specialist and you discovered an inoperable cancer in a patient which gave the patient only a short time to live. How would you break this bad news to both patient and next of kin? Under what circumstances would you deviate from the raw truth in any situation mundane or kink?


I would be bad at that job, to be sure.

I certainly don't spare people's feelings and when it comes to things about myself I usually just tell the truth with the attitude that if they can't handle the truth about my beliefs / opinions / attitudes then they can get fucked.


If I had lots of secrets I would obviously have to lie to protect them... but I really don't.  There are things about myself that I don't advertise so much... but if put to a direct question I really don't have anything to hide.


< Message edited by Elipsis -- 9/18/2009 12:07:45 AM >

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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 1:26:58 AM   
allthatjaz


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Status: offline 		Not telling the whole story can often mean being liberal with the truth.

I know a couple of compulsive liars that continually make up pointless lies...... 'I was Bob Marleys road Manager' and 'I was the first person in the UK to have a mobile phone'

and I know a couple of people that are so blunt with the truth that they continually offend people.... One I recall was when I was showing off my new baby and whilst everyone else was saying 'Isn't he beautiful?' someone said loudly ' Actually no.... he's got a big nose'

Honesty mixed with tact is an important asset in a person, especially if they expect to keep long term friends.



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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 2:54:45 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

quote:

If I tell you the truth, knowing it will cause you to believe something other than the truth, am I really being honest?

Similarly, if I tell you something that isn't actually true, but that leads you to the truth faster than telling you truth directly would, am I really lying?


Interesting....   "expedient means," (upaya) as Buddhists might say.


Yes! Upaya! That's precisely what I mean. ;)

quote:

The question to me is, how do you *know* what your words will lead others to?


The same way you know that a certain look means a girl is interested, and another look means she isn't. The same way you learn that a certain tone of the voice means sarcasm, while another tone means sincerity. You pay attention and you learn, and after a few decades you should be able to sort out what sorts of things will be interpreted in what ways by what sorts of people. Not with any real precision, of course, but nothing in life ever is.

quote:

And why do you interact with these people who are in need of being gamed?


Because - as regrettable as it is - we all need to be gamed now and again, hopefully for our own benefit. Life itself is a "game", after all - that's what's meant by "maya", right? So since we're already several layers deep in illusion, how is anything we say to each other "true" or "real" in the first place?

...h'okay, stepping back from the philosophical wankery for a moment:

There are a hundred different layers of "truth". Look at how we teach - have you ever heard the phrase "lies we tell children?" It's a term you hear a lot in the sciences, that means "well, no, this doesn't ACTUALLY work this way, but for now it'll do as an explanation." We don't typically try to teach five-year-olds the intricacies of quantum superposition; we just try to explain that things fall when you let go of them, and heavy things fall harder than light things. Then, in grade school, maybe we learn a bit about Newtonian mechanics - but trussed up in a bunch of irrelevant stories and history about Galileo and Sir Isaac Newton. Then in high school, we learn the full set of Newtonian mechanics. Then in college, maybe we learn special relativity, and then maybe we learn general relativity. And THEN maybe we learn a bit of quantum mechanics, and THEN - if we care - we can find out about quantum electrodynamics and Hamiltonians and all the myriad weirdnesses that make up "real" physics - at least, as far as we understand them at the moment.

Which of these stories is the truth? Which of them describes ACTUAL reality? To be honest, none of them - but if we stick with that, we'll never get anywhere, and people have bridges to build and skyscrapers to design and microchips to forge out of tiny silicon wafers and X-rays. So we learn whatever we need to do understand how to make whatever it is we're making, and no more - and maybe we learn that we don't quite have it right, or maybe we just don't care. Either way, as long as the building doesn't fall over, the bridge doesn't fall into the river, and the computer doesn't lock up every five goddamn minutes when the thermometer outside hits 100 degrees, everybody's happy, right?

Social stuff works the same way, too. For that matter, so does morality. At core, of COURSE might makes right - because if you can't enforce your sense of "right", then it doesn't happen. We all agree that Hitler was a bad man, but if we weren't willing to fight WW2 to stop him, he would have won, wouldn't he? So might *DOES* make right, in the sense that it causes what we believe to be right to actually *matter*, once we use force to enforce it. But we tell people all the time "might doesn't make right", because we want people to behave a certain way whether or not they have power, and whether or not they think they can get away with being a little dick. Morality has been called the "noble lie", and maybe it is. Maybe there are things that aren't true, but that we should believe anyways - because believing them makes the world better for us.

Hell, even self-esteem works this way. Did you know that depressed people tend to have more realistic understanding of their odds of success in any given scenario than "healthy" people? That healthy optimism is, in fact, a delusion - that you can statistically show that being a cynical, self-defeating pessimist tends to lead to a more "accurate" view of the world? But barely anyone thinks that way, because it's useless for getting things done. Yeah, you wind up with unrealistic expectations - but those unrealistic expectations are the only motivation people have to keep trying.

So, yeah. Life is *full* of "upaya", inside and out. The trick is learning how to differentiate between expedience for the sake of dharma, and outright manipulation for the sake of selfishness.

... do I make any sense?

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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 4:04:53 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm not a believer in Radical Honesty. It hurts people's feelings for no reason.

In a situation as you pose, the truth is that no doctor knows exactly how long anyone has. All you can do is stick with the facts you do know. The cancer is inoperable, it has already spread and cannot be contained with radiation or chemo. Survival rates are between six and 18 months usually. You don't say "don't start any long books".

With that said, lying will be found out. My memory isn't good enough to remember the details of a lie several months later when someone mentions it. About all I can say is I'm not feeling up to going out if asked to on a bad day. I don't get into is this a physical or emotional thing. But it's true, I don't feel up to going out that day with that person. I simply leave off "with you". I'm thinking of a dear friend who I truly love but who is very, very chatty. And some days I just don't have the energy to listen to her talk.

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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 4:23:35 AM   
stella41b


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From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Lets imagine that you are a medical specialist and you discovered an inoperable cancer in a patient which gave the patient only a short time to live. How would you break this bad news to both patient and next of kin? Under what circumstances would you deviate from the raw truth in any situation mundane or kink?



I would probe, ask questions of both patient and next of kin to size up things like attitudes, feelings, emotions, as this would greatly influence and even determine how I would deliver what I have to say. I wouldn't disguise or conceal in any way whilst I'm doing this any emotional signal or cue that they are to steel themselves and prepare for what I am about to deliver, and it would influence and determine how I would deliver such news.

I wouldn't flinch from telling them the bad news, not one bit, because in such a situation I feel they would have a right to know and here, where it is a matter of life and death, they also I feel have a right to know and be made aware of the worst case scenario. I would also point out that I am not God, I'm giving an informed opinion, but have no influence over when that moment of death comes.

I would also spend time afterwards with those people to answer questions and to help them come to terms with what I have said.

Receiving bad news is part and parcel of life, and I find in my personal experience that almost everyone, or at least a large majority of people, will accept the truth if you can show that you have considered them and their feelings when delivering it.

I would much rather be proved wrong from an honest opinion or a truthful standpoint than be proved right from a lie.


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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 4:56:41 AM   
sravaka


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Status: offline 		Ialdabaoth,

Thank you!  This is fascinating, and yes, you make perfect sense.

When I think about it, your physics example holds even in the humanities.  Grad school becomes an opportunity to unlearn all the pretty fictions you picked up as an undergrad, that led you to grad school in the first place, essentially sucking the joy out of the whole endeavor.  In fact, it may be that the farther you go, the closer you come to the truth that there is no truth, merely more or less plausible arguments.  I'm thinking of the stages you go through when learning how to write research papers.  A relative youngster might be told to quit believing what she finds on the internet and go look at serious books, from which she extracts "facts" that she dutifully footnotes.  Eventually she learns to tangle with such sources and attempt to poke holes in the argument, then to go back to primary sources and attempt to reinterpret them on her own, and finally to cast a wide net in other primary sources attempting to put the first ones in "accurate" context.  But it never ends, and trying to pursue things too far means that nothing gets written-- it becomes impossible to say anything that is "true".  The only way out of this crisis is to begin balancing "truth" with (yet again) the game of academic advancement-- the goal is to do enough to please superiors, outstrip peers, get your degree and go get a job.  The whole thing is a bit depressing if you think about it too hard.

quote:

Hell, even self-esteem works this way. Did you know that depressed people tend to have more realistic understanding of their odds of success in any given scenario than "healthy" people? That healthy optimism is, in fact, a delusion - that you can statistically show that being a cynical, self-defeating pessimist tends to lead to a more "accurate" view of the world? But barely anyone thinks that way, because it's useless for getting things done. Yeah, you wind up with unrealistic expectations - but those unrealistic expectations are the only motivation people have to keep trying.


A question:  is a pessimist accurate only with regard to his/her own likelihood of success?  If so, isn't the deck stacked a bit?  In other words, you're depressed, you think "I can't do [whatever], it will never work" and at the same time are incapable of rousing yourself to do [whatever], so naturally [whatever] doesn't get done.  Depression is so often circular-- feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness, two of the hallmarks, multiply because they are themselves in the way of accomplishing anything that would allow one to break out of the cycle.  In this case it wouldn't be the view of the world that is "accurate"; only the depressed person's view of him/herself.  (and of course even that is contingent:  administer the right drug and suddenly things start getting done--the "truth" of being useless turns out to have been illusory.)  Or am I missing something?

quote:


So, yeah. Life is *full* of "upaya", inside and out. The trick is learning how to differentiate between expedience for the sake of dharma, and outright manipulation for the sake of selfishness.


And this is tricky indeed.  I have no problem at all with pedagogical expedience, whether in schooling or (to make this briefly D/s relevant) when, say, a dominant withholds a certain amount of information for the sake of getting a submissive where he wants her to be more expeditiously, hopefully for the sake of some larger end/good.  But if you're an adult dealing with another adult on presumably even footing....  is it fair or ethical to employ upaya in your interactions?

My inclination is to say no, it isn't, that there is a right/responsibility to hear unvarnished (but hopefully tactful) truths on one hand and a right/responsibility to give them on the other.  But I say this mostly because it would piss me off to know I had been upaya'd by a non-Buddha-- how dare anyone else judge what degree of "truth" I can handle, unless I have invested him/her with a right to make such judgments for me?

But I realize this is inadequate as a philosophical justification.  It's a puzzle.



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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 5:15:32 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka
A question:  is a pessimist accurate only with regard to his/her own likelihood of success?  If so, isn't the deck stacked a bit?  In other words, you're depressed, you think "I can't do [whatever], it will never work" and at the same time are incapable of rousing yourself to do [whatever], so naturally [whatever] doesn't get done.  Depression is so often circular-- feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness, two of the hallmarks, multiply because they are themselves in the way of accomplishing anything that would allow one to break out of the cycle.  In this case it wouldn't be the view of the world that is "accurate"; only the depressed person's view of him/herself.  (and of course even that is contingent:  administer the right drug and suddenly things start getting done--the "truth" of being useless turns out to have been illusory.)  Or am I missing something?


No, it's worse than that. Look at it this way (numbers made up to illustrate the point):

A depressed person and a "normal" person are both told to attempt a task a certain number of times, and are asked before attempting the task how often they think they'll succeed.

The "normal" person says he thinks he'll succeed 80% of the time; the depressed person says he thinks he'll succeed 25% of the time.

So they run the test, and it turns out that the depressed person actually succeeds 35% of the time, and the "normal" person actually succeeds 40% of the time.

Then, they run the experiment again, given their knowledge of their performance last time. The depressed person tends to believe, based on their new experience, that they will succeed about 30% of the time. The "normal" person thinks they will succeed 75% of the time.

So they run take 2, and it turns out that the depressed person actually succeeds 37% of the time this time, and the "normal" person actually succeeds 42% of the time.

So the depressed person is better at guessing their own success rate, even taking into account the fact that their depression is affecting their success rate.

This also tends to come into play with things that couldn't possibly be affected by depression - for example, gambling. Depressed people tend to be much more realistic about their odds of winning a game of chance, for example. It's not like being depressed affects the outcome of unweighted dice, Jungian synchronicity notwithstanding.

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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 5:17:02 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka
But it never ends, and trying to pursue things too far means that nothing gets written-- it becomes impossible to say anything that is "true".  The only way out of this crisis is to begin balancing "truth" with (yet again) the game of academic advancement-- the goal is to do enough to please superiors, outstrip peers, get your degree and go get a job.  The whole thing is a bit depressing if you think about it too hard.


*everything* is depressing if you think about it too hard. The key to not being depressed lies in learning when to stop thinking about how things actually work.

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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 7:37:24 AM   
rideemwet


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Status: offline 		The whole truth?  .... 

I won't claim to be 100% truthful.  I don't think anyone really can.  Real-life requires us to make evaluations, judgements, and decisions based on less than complete knowledge of most situations.  Subjective opinion weighs in there.  So maybe we can be 100% truthful if we caveat everything with "in my opinion ..."  (Gee, never happens on these boards right?)  Not that I'm not talking about blatant lying.   The medical examples above are a matter of truthfullness and bedside manner, but no lying is involved.

Does withholding a negative opinion of someone constitute a lie?
As a simple example, if I don't like someones nail polish color but tell her she looks good (because overall she does), aren't a fudging a bit?  You can take variations to find your preferred "threshold" of truthfulness. 

If you can buy into the concept of shades of the truth,  I think the situation warrants different levels of truthfulness.  In a professional situation, such as the medical ones given, I'm paying someone for their professional judgment as well as simple facts.  I want all of the information.  Having had my share of medical challenges I'm quite comfortable grilling doctors until I know their entire view on something.  A big part of that is conveying to them that I am looking for more than just straight facts, I'm looking for their opinions, thoughts, and related experiences.  There is a difference here in bedside manner vs. withholding information, and I include their professional opinion (i.e., honestly what are the chances and likely outcomes, how soon, is this a better course of action) as part of that information.

At another extreme, I have no problem kidding around with friends in a friendly manner.  Often that can involve  some statements that are total bullshit (is using the word bullshit here a bit of a falsehood?).  As long as the other person in the conversation understands that we're not being factual, I don't see harm in that.

My summary would be that I hope for honesty, which I could roughly say is that the level of truthfulness is appropriate to the situation.  And yes, that's subjective.  On the other hand my medical "grilling" is a way of conveying to the doctor what level of truthfulness I want (i.e., give me the facts, and the judgment calls).

< Message edited by rideemwet -- 9/18/2009 7:49:01 AM >

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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 7:54:19 AM   
Andalusite


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Status: offline 		I try to be honest but tactful.

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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 8:19:05 AM   
marie2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear


Lets imagine that you are a medical specialist and you discovered an inoperable cancer in a patient which gave the patient only a short time to live. How would you break this bad news to both patient and next of kin? Under what circumstances would you deviate from the raw truth in any situation mundane or kink?



There is really no way for any medical specialist of any kind to determine how long someone will survive with cancer, therefore I would not give someone a timeframe such as...."you have another 6-12 months".  I would say something like "in the cases that I have seen, 85% have died within a year, but I've also seen or known of cases where people survived longer than that.  It all depends on certain variables such as x, y and z.  To me, that would be the "truth".  Saying "you have 6 months to live" isn't the truth, it's an educated guess.

Same thing for any other situation as well....I would put the facts, as I know them,  in front of a person and let them form their own opinions and guesstimates. 

Let's say I knew a guy who was a real run-around and heartbreaker, then I found out that a friend of mine became involved with him....I'm not going to say to that friend "That guy you're dating is going to break your heart, he's a real cad", I would say something like "be careful, the last three girls he was with really ended up hurt".  Again, the former is an opinion, the latter is a fact. 

No one knows the truth in either of these cases, since it hasn't come to pass yet.  Maybe the cancer patient will defy the odds and live for 3 yrs instead of 6 months.  Maybe my friend will be the "one" that inspires the run-around to finally settle down.  I'm not a fortune teller, I don't have the truth; not in these types of contexts anyway.

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RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 8:22:24 AM   
MsMillgrove


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Status: offline 		Here is the fact that I obtained from a specialist in end of life care. He said that the worst part of his job as a physician caring for the terminally ill, is the fact that there is so much he could do in mitigating pain, in comfort, to aid patients in planning their transition, but NO.. he can't do it most of the time because the oncologists wait so long to refer to him, that the average length of time he has to care for a patient is only 30 days.

He also confirmed what I already know from studies--the best oncologist estimates of a patient's lifespan is off by a factor of 3 and the worst is 10. So if you can even force a time frame from an oncologist, if he/she tells you eighteen months, you can plan on six.

Few cancer specialists wish to give any time frames or to even confirm that a cancer will be fatal. Most patients don't want to take responsbility for their care, it seems safer to them to simply follow the physician's recommendations (which seems sensible). However, if the quality of your life will be diminished by aggressive treatment that can only prolong life for a few months, it seems wise to ask about other types of care.

Very few patients are aware that there are doctors who are trained to offer
a different system of care for the terminally ill.
They know about hospice teams, but that's more of a nursing solution to allow a patient to stay home in the end.

If I were in the position to discuss dx with patients, I would be very honest with them--but that job of discussing the options for a patient is often handled by an social woker or an oncology nurse AFTER the patient has agreed to follow the doctor's recommendations. So it behooves us all to remember these facts... and to ask close family-friends if they would like an advocate, someone to be with them for these difficult moments. If you ever find yourself in this spot, get someone else to be with you, to ask questions, to look at ALL your options before making life decisions like these. You can't absorb the information you need to have, alone, or in one quick visit. Take your time and think about what suits you. It's your life and your passing, make it fit what is right for your situation.

If you're a fighter, fight with all your heart, but if you chose to let go, find the way you can do it with dignity and peace.

I apologize if I sound too opinionated on this, but these areas of information and hospital care have been my field... and I have watched so many people be pushed into decisions that someone else makes for them.

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 9:24:15 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		For me, if I have, in any way whatsoever, encouraged a situation in which the listener does not correctly understand the reality of the situation, then I have lied. It doesn't matter to me whether I have done it by telling the truth, partial truth, or total fabrications. As Ialdobeth suggests, if I tell you the god's honest truth knowing that you will not believe it, then I have lied unless I have bent every effort to presenting it in the way you were most likely to believe it.

That being said, I'm not all that up in arms about lying. I do it all the time. I do not feel that I owe everyone in the world the truth. To my own sense of honor and integrity, it is much more important to be good than to be truthful.

To your example IB, as the recipient, I would appreciate the unvarnished and actual truth in as concisely stated a way as possible. In such a situation, I'd have enough to worry about without trying to decipher waffle words from my hired help (the doctor). Where I the doctor, on the other hand, I would perceive each situation as different and try to do the best I could keeping in mind both the exigencies of the medical condition and the emotional/spiritual needs of the family.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth - 9/18/2009 9:33:26 AM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		Be honest-even when it proves to be at your disposition. I would rather have the truth than some soft lie.

But many people lie and sometimes they do not mean to.

At other times it is for personal gain... which is abhorrently stupid... and then they have to dig themselves out of a pit (with either honesty next and distrust later.... or more lies.... which blows up in their face.)


Damn I wish I could spin reality to my liking.




_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 20
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