RE: It seems I've heard this story before

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TheHeretic -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/19/2009 6:51:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire More to the point... have any goalie masks and machetes gone missing? If we really want to go that way, Mars, we need a William Shatner mask, done in white. [:D]

Arpig -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/19/2009 6:53:29 PM)
quote: Then what's wrong with saying, "the death penalty wouldn't have been used and he could have spent the rest of life securely confined, and/or drugged into catatonia?" He had to go to the fair? I guess you just skipped over the rest of my post...oh well.

TheHeretic -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/19/2009 7:03:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Then what's wrong with saying, "the death penalty wouldn't have been used and he could have spent the rest of life securely confined, and/or drugged into catatonia?" He had to go to the fair? I guess you just skipped over the rest of my post...oh well. The part where you said the death penalty wouldn't apply? It wasn't a very long post, Arpig.

Arpig -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/19/2009 7:20:37 PM)
No my longer post beneath that one...there's stuff in there we can argue about [:D] http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2811697

TheHeretic -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/19/2009 10:36:28 PM)
From that one, Arpig we are pretty much on the same page. [;)] When, if, and how, to release these folks is an interesting can of worms, and I don't think there is going to be a single answer. The "panel of experts" doesn't give me much confidence. I suspect there was a review team, or more than one doctor that decided he was perfectly ok to go off to the fair. Sometimes, it might be that an equivalent of life without parole is the result we get. There may never be justice for the victim, but any error in determining when such a killer is released should go far to the side of caution.

Arpig -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/19/2009 10:58:14 PM)
quote: Sometimes, it might be that an equivalent of life without parole is the result we get. There may never be justice for the victim, but any error in determining when such a killer is released should go far to the side of caution. I agree. Sometimes it is, and should be, the equivalent of life without parole, but it has to be handled on a case by case basis. In the case in the OP, what I can't figure out is why he was allowed out given that he had already tried to escape on a previous outing. One of the problems with the insanity defence is that being mentally ill doesn't mean one isn't cunning enough to fake recovery well. It is a can of worms indeed. In Canada we have a review board that makes these determinations (at least as far as actual release...I have no idea what the procedure is for outings) and when they decide to release somebody they have to notify the Crown Attorney who then has a chance to object. Not perfect, but it seems to have a degree of double checking built into it.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/19/2009 11:31:02 PM)
As crazy as this fellow may have been, he was clearly not the craziest person involved in this adventure. That honor would go to whomever decided it's good therapy to send homicidal maniacs off to ride the ferris wheel and gorge themselves on cotton candy and pronto pups. That idiot is the real lunatic in our story. If this doesn't point out the need for some sort of universal standard for confining and securing dangerous criminally insane patients, I don't know what would.

Sanity -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 4:31:50 AM)
It sounds like there may be some top Washington State bureaucrats looking for work soon. If they're lucky there'll be thousands of openings managing our health care in the near future! [sm=banghead.gif]

tazzygirl -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 8:36:36 AM)
It wont hit the top Sanity. They will blame the locals.. and it will be those who get canned.

Sanity -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 8:59:11 AM)
The article I read said that the union workers didn't want to take him out, all the lower level staff said it was too dangerous and that they fought it, but the order came from higher up forcing them to take him out. From the OP : quote: SEATTLE – Two days after an insane killer escaped from a field trip organized by his mental hospital, the union that represents mental hospital workers said it had become concerned about the type of patients allowed to participate in such outings. This wasn't some new hire grabbing the keys and going for a joy ride with him, this had been discussed and it appears that the discussion may have been a heated one going pretty high up the chain of command. Bureaucrats from a bureaucratic nightmare making bureaucratic decisions... all the makings of a fine novel indeed.

TheHeretic -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 9:56:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig what I can't figure out is why he was allowed out given that he had already tried to escape on a previous outing. I'm going to try and do this without using the "L" word, but my guess is it was exactly the same sort of thinking that let Phil Garrido out after serving 11 years of a 50 year sentence (Phil's activities after release aren't for discussion here, but Google if you don't know the case). Some do-gooder came along, with a Pollyanna view of humanity, and couldn't comprehend that some people are miserable shits and always will be. It is one of the reasons I support the death penalty, as a guarantee against repeat offenses. I certainly hope that whoever made this decision gets fired, and stripped of their credentials, but I don't doubt for a moment that there are 15 more who think the problems of the world can be solved with a hug, waiting to take the job.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 10:56:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig what I can't figure out is why he was allowed out given that he had already tried to escape on a previous outing. I'm going to try and do this without using the "L" word, but my guess is it was exactly the same sort of thinking that let Phil Garrido out after serving 11 years of a 50 year sentence (Phil's activities after release aren't for discussion here, but Google if you don't know the case). Some do-gooder came along, with a Pollyanna view of humanity, and couldn't comprehend that some people are miserable shits and always will be. It is one of the reasons I support the death penalty, as a guarantee against repeat offenses. The death penalty would not have applied here, because the man was insane. It has no relevance at all.

tazzygirl -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 11:11:38 AM)
Allow me to tell you a little story about the innefective running of government offices. There was a little girl.. 5.. in my home town. Mom was a single mother (not to cast any dispersions on single mothers, i was too). Dad was out of the picture... there was a boyfriend. The little girl kept having "accidents". Mom was on welfare, with a caseworker. People kept calling about this family, begging someone to come investigate the crying and screaming coming from their apartment. My boyfriend at the time was on the rescue squad. He was called to their home. The little girl was dead. As he explained it to me later, and was even later revealed, she had cigarette burns where no kid should. The outcries from her grandparents and the community sparked an investigation. The question was raised... why didnt CPS investigate? ( at the time, it was DSS) They claimed they could not find the address. Oddly enough, the reporter, knowing a lie, called a local pizza delivery to that address. No trouble finding it to deliver pizza, but to deliver aide... they couldnt seem to locate it. The local CPS was dismantled, with most being removed and sent to other offices. Nothing higher up was done. And this will be the result in this case. Hands will be slapped, possibly one or two may be fired, the rest moved to other facilities. Maybe.. and just maybe.. if someone holds a medical license, they may be sanctioned by the appropriate board. I dont forsee much more happening.

TheHeretic -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 1:52:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig what I can't figure out is why he was allowed out given that he had already tried to escape on a previous outing. I'm going to try and do this without using the "L" word, but my guess is it was exactly the same sort of thinking that let Phil Garrido out after serving 11 years of a 50 year sentence (Phil's activities after release aren't for discussion here, but Google if you don't know the case). Some do-gooder came along, with a Pollyanna view of humanity, and couldn't comprehend that some people are miserable shits and always will be. It is one of the reasons I support the death penalty, as a guarantee against repeat offenses. The death penalty would not have applied here, because the man was insane. It has no relevance at all. I was speaking more broadly, Panda, to the impact of the well-intentioned idiots across the spectrum, in how we deal with such social threats. I suppose I could have been clearer on that. The rules on insanity vary widely I think, by state, quality of legal defense, and intelligence of the jury.

MarsBonfire -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 3:30:53 PM)
"Bureaucrats from a bureaucratic nightmare making bureaucratic decisions... all the makings of a fine novel indeed. " -Sanity More like one of those endless stream of "B" grade time fillers produced for SyFy...

Lucylastic -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 3:51:37 PM)
For all that Im a bleeding heart, treehugging, pinko commie liberal(etc etc) I would love to see the twat who made the decision to let the crazy out for the day, zapped multiple times with a turbo boosted cattle prod, never to work in his field again. I hope he gets caught without having any lives apart from his own, endangered. Id like to see him "resist arrest".

TheHeretic -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 3:54:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire More like one of those endless stream of "B" grade time fillers produced for SyFy... Sling Blade wasn't that bad, Mars, but generally the script writers engineer an ambulance crash or something. Who would believe a guy with a history like this one would be handed regular civilian clothes and enough money for a bus ticket?

TheHeretic -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 10:59:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I hope he gets caught without having any lives apart from his own, endangered. Id like to see him "resist arrest". You get part of your wish, Lucy. He is back in custody. Update here Just a little tidbit, though, he was carrying a hand scythe, which would make a hell of a nasty weapon for those campfire stories.

Arpig -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/20/2009 11:24:33 PM)
quote: Paul was committed after he was diagnosed as schizophrenic and acquitted by reason of insanity in the slaying of an elderly woman in Sunnyside in 1987. He soaked her body in gasoline to throw off search dogs Now it makes sense.

Irishknight -> RE: It seems I've heard this story before (9/21/2009 7:10:53 AM)
Out of curiosity, if he's crazy enough to kill an elderly woman and soak her body in gasoline, WHY TAKE HIM OUT OF CONFINEMENT EVER? I believe that should be the key point here. If you notice in my earlier post I stated " Maybe then they'll start using their damned heads and keeping these people locked away for the protection of others. " As for the death penalty not applying, the statement would still have been made loudly by many people had he killed before being recaptured. Many of the same people making it want to get rid of the "not guilty by reason of insanity" argument as well and would have tried to use the case to strengthen their cause. I'm sure that the fact that he was carrying a hand scythe will cause some of them to start talking already. "See what could have happened? You guys are endangering us all."

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