RE: President Of New York State Politics

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Mercnbeth -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/21/2009 6:02:41 PM)
quote: There is more. But, i will allow you to make the determination for yourself No no, I didn't mean what happened to it as of now, I was referring to the Yahoo representation that is was there and isn't now. Sorry about that! And is that in the 1000 page version or the version that will be debated on for a vote from Baucus committee?

tazzygirl -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/21/2009 6:11:25 PM)
That was the original, which was the basis for all the lies about death panels. Its a pity if its removed. The aging could really use that time with the physicians to gain information about their choices later in life. Must have made some of them feel very good to scare these poor people over nothing. as far as Baucus' plan... it still has a bit of a road to get through. In the House, Rep. Anthony Weiner of New York, who favors a government-run program, said, "I think I speak for many members of Congress in saying that the Senate proposal simply will not pass muster in the House of Representatives and fails on very basic levels to satisfy the objectives of the president and the citizens of the United States of America." Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/16/health-care-bill-baucus-s_n_288218.html?page=57&show_comment_id=31101597#comment_31101597

servantforuse -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/21/2009 7:02:28 PM)
Since Patterson is 'all' black. I think that Obama is a bigot for not supporting him.

tazzygirl -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/21/2009 7:04:26 PM)
and you dont believe its his own record... or lack of efficiency.. not to mention his stand on using racism as a crutch... that is the cause of hiw own problems?

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/21/2009 9:57:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: What exactly are we debating here? Simple Panda - exactly what is occurring in NY State. A sitting Governor who wants to run for reelection seeking his party's President to support him. Instead, he has not only gotten the cold shoulder he's being pressured not to seek reelection in the face of bad polling numbers. What happened to the representation that you made the "this is nothing new"? Seems your research of other examples supported my position that the attack on Governor Patterson is not only new but unique. Sorry, Merc, I genuinely didn't realize you were hanging so much of your argument on the fact that Paterson is an incumbent governor. But even knowing now that you were gets me no closer to understanding why. I'm still completely bewildered why you think that's so significant. To me, it's just simple political calculus. Paterson is unelectable. One thing the democrats learned from the republicans over the last 15 years is that the party that controls the governorships in this country has an enormous political advantage on the national level - governors make appointments that have a significant effect on national electoral politics; judges, vacant senate seats, secretaries of state, etc. The White House understands that Paterson is unelectable, and they're apparently going to do whatever they have to do to make sure a republican doesn't win that seat. If that means throwing Paterson to the wolves, then goodbye Paterson. The fact that he's a sitting governor, and not an unseated candidate, makes no difference whatsoever. He represents a threat to the party's national position, so in their eyes he needs to go. Why do you think the fact that he's an incumbent, rather than an unelected candidate, is so significant? You still haven't explained why you think that makes such an enormous difference. I really don't even understand what we're arguing about. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Is this an example of a dysfunctional party or an exposing indicator of a egomaniac demigod party head needing to control all things within the party? A question not a statement. Could be either, or both, or neither - or some combination of one (or both) and some other factors. Or, it could be mostly what I suggested it is - a toughminded president who's taking very seriously his responsibility as the de facto party leader, and doing what he feels he needs to do to strengthen the party's position. Why does it need to be anything more sinister than that? You and I have both complained loudly and oftenly that the man doesn't seem to have the balls to make bold executive decisions; well, now he's apparently making one, and you're outraged about that. You've frequently criticized him for not doing anything any differently than any other president has done or would have done, but now you're raging at him because you think he is doing something that nobody's ever done before. There's not much he can do right in your eyes, is there?

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/21/2009 10:02:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: There is more. But, i will allow you to make the determination for yourself No no, I didn't mean what happened to it as of now, I was referring to the Yahoo representation that is was there and isn't now. I don't like arguing with you at all, but especially not twice in the same thread. But, what the hell.... The problem is, Yahoo did not say that. What Yahoo said (at least, in the article you quoted), was this - quote: A health care bill passed by three House committees allows Medicare to reimburse doctors for voluntary counseling sessions about end-of-life decisions. But critics have claimed the provision could lead to death panels and euthanasia for seniors. In other words, what Yahoo reported was that some republicans have made up the term "death panel" completely on their own, and that there was not one word in the original bill about death panels. Yahoo is simply reporting that the republicans who opposed this bill are lying about what was in it. Not quite the point I think you wanted to make, but I'm afraid that's what your own article clearly says.

Mercnbeth -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/21/2009 10:39:42 PM)
quote: hanging so much of your argument on the fact that Paterson is an incumbent governor. But even knowing now that you were gets me no closer to understanding why. I'm still completely bewildered why you think that's so significant. That he was a incumbent anything is unprecedented. I'm bewildered why you don't think it's significant.

rulemylife -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/21/2009 11:10:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth What happened to the 'rulemylife' that used to provide a cognitive argument and reference sources in response to debate. Has your world so collapsed around you that this is your "win"? I don't know. Maybe the same thing that has happened to the Merc who touted himself as an Independent but who lately is using any Republican talking point he can find to attack Obama.

Mercnbeth -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/22/2009 8:40:25 AM)
quote: I don't like arguing with you at all, but especially not twice in the same thread. But, what the hell.... The problem is, Yahoo did not say that. What Yahoo said (at least, in the article you quoted), was this - You know Panda, I didn't pay much attention to the first, 1000 page version that the Administration was trying to shove down the throat of Congress before the August recess under the 'doom & gloom' crisis mentality. Once they left, I knew it was dead. However, whether on this yahoo story or other sources; whatever language that may have been interpreted as 'death panels' was eliminated. That version of the Bill is dead. Time spent arguing about it is wasted. The Baucus version is out of committee and will be discussed. There will be another version from the House. These versions are the only ones at this point that will be considered for a vote. There is no longer an 'Obama Version'. quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife: Maybe the same thing that has happened to the Merc who touted himself as an Independent but who lately is using any Republican talking point he can find to attack Obama. Based upon posts, you read and listen to more of the Rush Limbaugh and RNC talking points than I do. Which would be easy because I don't listen to any. If my views happen to align with the RNC in the case of Obama maybe it indicates the loss of the 'Independent' voter. I'm a member of the 'non-incumbent' party. My positions and opinions on matters reflect pragmatism. I'd agree that however, that the Obama Administration's is pragmatically failing; and I'm sure that the RNC would agree. It is coincidental.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/22/2009 10:38:46 AM)
Oh..have we still not gotten back to the New York Governor and Obama? I don't know what it is...I keep mistaking this health care thread for a New York politics thread....must be a lack of good health care.

Mercnbeth -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/22/2009 11:29:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales Oh..have we still not gotten back to the New York Governor and Obama? I don't know what it is...I keep mistaking this health care thread for a New York politics thread....must be a lack of good health care. Behind the scenes deal in the works. Political insiders believe David Paterson needs to be offered a soft landing to help ease him out of campaigning for his seat -- but the problem is finding something fit for a former governor, sources said yesterday. The governor hasn't been offered anything formally, despite months of speculation that Paterson --- whom Democrats around the state have privately said is dragging the ticket down -- could be given an administration post by the Obama White House. Don't know how those who pointed to Paterson's failure as governor feel about the Administration considering him for an insider's job, but that's currently being considered. At the same time another President has come out against the incumbent Governor. Talk about Presidential pile-ons. First, President Obama sent word to Gov. Paterson that maybe he shouldn't run for election next year. Now, former President Bill Clinton is weighing in, saying Paterson is "not in good shape now" politically, but expressing confidence Paterson will do what's best for his state. Both parties eat their young; however this ones been out of the nest a bit. There's never been one so public and never before with any current office holder not subject to criminal or sexual misconduct charges.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/22/2009 12:27:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Both parties eat their young; however this ones been out of the nest a bit. There's never been one so public and never before with any current office holder not subject to criminal or sexual misconduct charges. Could be...but I'm not sure it's a bad thing. Can I speak of why I think this is far more a politics than a policy matter or will I get yelled at for not taking the "process" seriously but breaking down the gameplan?

Mercnbeth -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/22/2009 12:37:46 PM)
quote: Can I speak of why I think this is far more a politics than a policy matter or will I get yelled at for not taking the "process" seriously but breaking down the gameplan? Sure, but I'll again ask the fundamental question; why is this a Presidential priority? There is a primary election which should take care of it. If Cuomo is so good and Paterson is so bad; the registered Democratic voters will have the opportunity to let their feelings known in the spring. In the primary competition, Cuomo captures 66% of the male vote and 57% of women. Older voters give the challenger even larger majorities over Paterson, the state�s first African-American governor who succeeded to the office in March 2008 after Elliot Spitzer resigned because of a sex scandal. As it stands it doesn't seem to merit any political capital. But feel free to explain it. You think something that may come up in the primary, about any candidate, won't come up in the general?

SpinnerofTales -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/22/2009 1:00:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth As it stands it doesn't seem to merit any political capital. But feel free to explain it. You think something that may come up in the primary, about any candidate, won't come up in the general? Ahh..now that is the $64,000 question. Right now Paterson's approval ratings are so low that he couldn't win an election if Kanye West was running against him with Paris Hilton as his Lt. Governor. So why did Obama decide to put some political capital into this. Well that brings us to the game. First of all, Obama, as a sitting president is "head of his party". Admittedly, being the head of the the democratic party is a lot like being "Chief herder of cats" but he is. So he has an interest in making sure that Paterson and Cuomo don't indulge in the kind of bare knuckle primary customary in NY. He doesn't want to see the state fall under a republican governor, especially not Gulliani. So it is to his advantage of his party that Paterson steps aside. Whether this is to a do nothing job in Washington (redundant I know) or out the door, Paterson had to go. Next, with his entire rant about race in which he tried to draw Obama into the idea of racism being the cause of his oposition, Paterson tried to take Obama somewhere he didn't want to go. If anything, Obama has avoided playing the race card at all times during his admininistration. Whether it is from personal belief or political wisdom, he's not going to be the black guy railing at the mean white people trying to hurt him. Paterson tried to do that and Paterson got punished. Politics plain and simple. Lastly, the democratic party, as is it's wont, is moving in a hundred different driections and none of them are paying too close attention to what Obama is saying he wants done. As I've said before, trying to wrangle democrats is like trying to nail jello to the wall. There also might be the impression that Obama is as jovial, easy going and laid back as he appears. This is not always a good thing. I think this sends a message to the "troops" that he can and will play hardball when he feels it appropriate. It is a little warning that he who rides on the coattails can get thrown off the coattails. So, by cutting the deadwood that is Paterson, Obama makes a ripple of protest (stay out of state politics, etc)...but risks little political capital. I can't see this blowing up into a major campaign issue nationally. At the same time, he's sent a clear message of "Don't fuck with me" to the democrats. It may be a little rough, but American politics are a contact sport.

Mercnbeth -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/22/2009 1:15:05 PM)
quote: So, by cutting the deadwood that is Paterson, Obama makes a ripple of protest (stay out of state politics, etc)...but risks little political capital. I can't see this blowing up into a major campaign issue nationally. Identifying him as "deadwood" in New York State but ideal for a position within the Obama Administration? That's one way it can blow up into a "major campaign issue". Political insiders believe David Paterson needs to be offered a soft landing to help ease him out of campaigning for his seat -- but the problem is finding something fit for a former governor, sources said yesterday. The governor hasn't been offered anything formally, despite months of speculation that Paterson --- whom Democrats around the state have privately said is dragging the ticket down -- could be given an administration post by the Obama White House. Another painted corner?

SpinnerofTales -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/22/2009 1:23:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Identifying him as "deadwood" in New York State but ideal for a position within the Obama Administration? Another painted corner? Well, you can be sure that he it isn't going to happen now, even if it ever was considered. I don't know if I go with the "un-named sources" on this matter, but I'll concede the possiblity that, if he had gone quietly, with no muss and no fuss, there might have been found a job where he could save face without weilding any real power. Now, though, he has been cut off, snubbed and pretty much left for dead. Again, politics is a rough game.

Mercnbeth -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/23/2009 11:42:42 AM)
Some more Presidential 'equity' being spent. Now it seems the wife of Paterson is getting involved. Gov. Paterson's wife -- emotionally stunned at President Obama's request that her husband not run for another term -- ripped into him today, saying that it's "very unfair" the president asked New York's "first African-American governor" not to seek office. "You never heard of that before," Michelle Paterson, in her first comments on the situation, said following a luncheon in Midtown. "David's the first African-American governor in the state of New York and he's being asked to get out of the race. It's very unusual and it seems very unfair." NY is too visible, and has too many news sources, for this to 'go away'. Once the barbs started flying it created a no win situation for the Administration.

Charles6682 -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/23/2009 2:45:35 PM)
I am a native Upstate New York.I voted for Barack Obama as president last November.I am glad he won.I also happen to support my current Governor David Patterson.The recent event's with the Obama team telling David Patterson to step aside is unacceptable.I am actually glad to know that Obama know's what's going on in Albany.He clearly seem's to know that the Upstate NY economy has been hit hard by heavy tax's and job's leaving upstate N.Y. I'd like to hope that instead of wasting his time in NY state polictic's telling David Patterson to step aside,I think it would be good to know that Obama would be working with who ever the Governor is,to address these problem's.Let the voter's of New York state decide who our next Governor will be.If the people want to vote David Patterson out,then they will.If New Yorker's want to keep David Patterson as Governor,then they will as well.This is suppose to be democracy after all,isn't it?

SpinnerofTales -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/23/2009 5:11:07 PM)
quote: NY is too visible, and has too many news sources, for this to 'go away'. Once the barbs started flying it created a no win situation for the Administration. ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth The question is, would the situation for the democrats (since this is very much a political, not a policy matter) be worse or better under "Governor Giuliani"?

LookieNoNookie -> RE: President Of New York State Politics (9/23/2009 6:53:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales Oh....I'm sorry. I thought that this thread was about the President and New York Politics. I feel just as if I'd walked into the lady's room by mistake. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

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