someone else's taxonomy of subs

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sravaka -> someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/20/2009 10:59:42 PM)
Taxonomy.... I think we all do it to some extent when we sort through our various interlocutors here (or wherever). This type of sub/dom vs. that type of sub/dom (or switch, or top, or bottom, or whatever.) I spend a lot more time classifying and analyzing dominants (like so many butterflies pinned in a box? well, no, but the image is sort of amusing) than I do submissives, given that I am a sub seeking a dom.... but someone I was speaking to recently divided the universe of submissives into three, and caused me thereby to ponder where i fit into others' taxonomies, and/or what possible taxonomies of subs there are. In his view there are 1) subs who are motivated by desire to please, 2) subs who are motivated by a desire to obey, 3) subs who simply react to a dominant presence. Obviously, there is considerable overlap, esp. in a full-blown, ongoing relationship. You can obey because you want to please or attempt to please because you want to obey. You may react to a dominant presence by obeying and/or attempting to please. You may become so keyed to your dominant that you simply react obediently or pleasingly to his presence. But unless I'm mistaken, he was suggesting that, at the core, prior to a relationship, there is generally a tendency in one or the other of these three directions. I wonder.... does this resonate for anyone? If you are sub: do you feel you fit into one of these categories? Or some other category? If you are dom: do you divide up the universe of submissives similarly or in some other way, for the sake of sorting out what it is that you want? Grateful for any/all responses.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 1:26:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sravaka In his view there are 1) subs who are motivated by desire to please, 2) subs who are motivated by a desire to obey, 3) subs who simply react to a dominant presence. The distinction between the first two resonate with me. quote: If you are dom: do you divide up the universe of submissives similarly or in some other way, for the sake of sorting out what it is that you want? Yes, for the most part. But, in the end, I do as I am lead and that might be to take on someone who obeys through a need to please. Master Fire

littlewonder -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 3:26:38 AM)
quote: does this resonate for anyone? If you are sub: do you feel you fit into one of these categories? Or some other category? No it doesn't resonate at all for me. I belong to the classification of human heterosexual female who just happens to enjoy being in a relationship with a dominant personality human male.

DesFIP -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 5:00:26 AM)
The three divisions I've seen are: 1) service oriented 2) obedience wired 3) in this for emotional transparency

blackpearl81 -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 5:32:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP The three divisions I've seen are: 1) service oriented 2) obedience wired 3) in this for emotional transparency Emotional transparency? Can you explain what that is please?

leadership527 -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 6:43:31 AM)
In the end, us humans classify and sort things... it's how brains work. To some extent, I think everyone does this. Some just bring a bit more passion to it than others. For me in particular, I used to think in pretty elaborate terms about types of subs. In the end, though, what I figured out is that the motivations for submission are just way too varied to ever put into some sort of a/b/c format. So I ended up with just two broad groups... bedroom only / lifestyle. I see those as such wildly different animals that using the same word for both is ridiculous. But beyond that, the why's and wherefors of that choice are just plain complicated. The particular taxonomy presented here makes no sense whatsoever to me. No other taxonomy I could come up with made any sense either when I actually tried to apply it. Carol is strongly motivated by 1 & 3, along with a hodgepodge of other things such as Des' "emotional transparency" one.

rideemwet -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 7:08:01 AM)
I'd be inclined to agree with Jeff, the variations are pretty hard to fit into simple categories. The delineation that I tend to focus on is that some subs will come across as generally deferential in most situations, whereas others are only show signs of submissiveness to someone they're secure/comfortable with.

OrionAndi -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 8:06:35 AM)
Edit: Oh no!!! I just wrote out my long winding thoughts and its GONE.. cries Arrrrrgh. Gutted. Andi x

porcelaine -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 8:17:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sravaka I wonder.... does this resonate for anyone? If you are sub: do you feel you fit into one of these categories? Or some other category? If you are dom: do you divide up the universe of submissives similarly or in some other way, for the sake of sorting out what it is that you want? none of them do. my submission comes from a different place. it is an avenue i've chosen for self betterment. much akin to my own personal zen. i'm obedient because being so requires great self-control and self-mastery, two things i'm working ardently towards. a presence isn't required for adherence, though it is a motivating factor. i don't require micromanagement and one of the hallmarks of slavery is self-policing. the desire to please comes from the understanding of sacrifice and selflessness, which inspires an ability to see others' needs outside of myself. life isn't always about y.o.u., but in many respects it is about a larger you called us. porcelaine

RavenMuse -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 8:21:44 AM)
There are only two categories that actually mean something..... compatible and not compatible. Like #1-3 above, I require her to be drawn to both please and obey Me because she reacts to My presence.... Just because she doesn't react to Grand Lord Dickless the Uberdomly doesn't factor into it..... that chemistry and spark of Dynamic is individual to the people concerned.

ranja -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 8:33:17 AM)
I do have a desire to please, also to obey... but not just any order... i am no robot... just the other day i said to my Husband: "well, if you can't be bothered to order me about... maybe i can't be bothered to do my chores".... obviously i react to a dominant presence... not necessarily in a good way though... it all depends who and how the dominant presence is. I am primarily in it for the sex and the fun... oh and i like housework...

sweetsub1957 -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 8:38:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sravaka In his view there are 1) subs who are motivated by desire to please, 2) subs who are motivated by a desire to obey, 3) subs who simply react to a dominant presence. Obviously, there is considerable overlap, esp. in a full-blown, ongoing relationship. I'm motivated by a desire to please, to obey, and I react to HIS Dominant presence. I don't react strongly to just any Dominant presence, although I will respect them. It has to be the right One for me strongly react....in a word HIS. So anyway, to try & put it in a nutshell, I would say I'm motivated to please, because included IN that is also a desire to obey and to react to His presence.....all three please Him. quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse Just because she doesn't react to Grand Lord Dickless the Uberdomly doesn't factor into it. hahahaha I'm laughing my ass off here. Too funny!! I love that, and that's just what I was saying about "It has to be the right One....."

DesFIP -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 8:40:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 Emotional transparency? Can you explain what that is please? Someone who is obedience wired will do what is ordered even if she hates it, without showing the fact that she hates it. Because she gets off more on obedience then on her own emotions being known. I'm not, I need to be fully known, fully vulnerable to someone who wants to know all of me. Obviously if there's an order that upsets me and I show it/share it, then he's likely to change it. Not because he allows me to tftb but because if there's a great deal of resentment building up from these types of orders I will close off, not share how I feel, not want to be with him all the time. Since he doesn't want me closing myself off from him, he corrects things so that I am always without conflict in my love for him. Since for him, this is what he wants also, it works for us. We're compatible this way. He gets off on the energy I give, if I'm closed off there's no energy coming from me so he stops enjoying it also. This is one reason I am not compatible with sadists, because they would enjoy putting me into a conflicted place, they would enjoy me resenting/hating them. But whereas a masochist or obedience wired person can separate what happens in play to afterwards, I can't and it would carry over. Hope this helps as an explanation, reading it over it appears 'clear as mud'.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 8:41:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ranja oh and i like housework... Oh wow! I thought I was some kind of freak. I love housework TOO!

RavenMuse -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 8:54:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957 quote: ORIGINAL: ranja oh and i like housework... Oh wow! I thought I was some kind of freak. I love housework TOO! Count My girl in there too... one of her 'complaints' about Me is that I don't create enough mess for her to clean up after Me [:D]

OrionAndi -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 9:16:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957 quote: ORIGINAL: ranja oh and i like housework... Oh wow! I thought I was some kind of freak. I love housework TOO! You know what, I think once we start living together im getting quite into the idea of being given chores ect. I do love house work but have no motivation to do it, and that is what i crave most being able to up keep a beautiful house for my future husband for myself and my child. I think he may quite like the idea of that too. Going back to the OP, We are both more into it for the sex fun and games. In our day to day life we are equals in our relationship as a whole. For me its a number of things. When we get into our role as D/s I have a sudden emotional switch that turns on, him going into his more Dominant role gives me a massive rush and its an incredible turn on that sends me into a completley different mind set. I think for me it delves much deeper than wanting to please/obey him. It is sumwhat but more .. i know, a motivational thing to reach new levels. It is for him but I am also doing it for myself in a way. Its all very exciting for me and I want to be the best I can be. In real life so to speak im much more head strong, stuborn ect and its a breathe of fresh air when i delve into my more submissive side,that i know has always been there but never come out until now. Does that make sense? Does it even give answer? I dont know. Im still learning[:D]

Mercnbeth -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 9:28:01 AM)
quote: ...If you are sub: do you feel you fit into one of these categories? Or some other category?... submissive is this slave's default state in reaction to the world around her. it isn't earned by another, inspired by a dominant presesence, motivated by a desire to please or obey, or a choice this slave makes. it simply is just the way this slave is.

Bella1965 -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 9:57:27 AM)
G'afternoon all: Slight thread hijack here: quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP This is one reason I am not compatible with sadists, because they would enjoy putting me into a conflicted place, they would enjoy me resenting/hating them. But whereas a masochist or obedience wired person can separate what happens in play to afterward, I can't and it would carry over. Not every sadist thinks this way and it's an over generalization for you to assume what goes on in the mind of sadists. This may relate to your personal experiences and if so, your post should reflect that. Some of us evil fuckers just get off on the cruelty, the pain we inflict for it's own sake. It's amusing as hell to me. It's also too broad of a statement to paint all masochists or obedience wired individuals in the same stroke. They may not react in the methods you describe. For whatever you hold holy? Don't attribute your personal experiences to the masses. Hijack over. Feel free to resume your normally scheduled thread. Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others... [:D] Bella

slaveToKnight -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 10:07:36 AM)
I would say all 3 now that I have my Master. I know the right one in my life changed it, before I wasn't 1 nor 2.

oceanwyndsLoves -> RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs (9/21/2009 10:27:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: sravaka I wonder.... does this resonate for anyone? If you are sub: do you feel you fit into one of these categories? Or some other category? If you are dom: do you divide up the universe of submissives similarly or in some other way, for the sake of sorting out what it is that you want? none of them do. my submission comes from a different place. it is an avenue i've chosen for self betterment. much akin to my own personal zen. i'm obedient because being so requires great self-control and self-mastery, two things i'm working ardently towards. a presence isn't required for adherence, though it is a motivating factor. i don't require micromanagement and one of the hallmarks of slavery is self-policing. the desire to please comes from the understanding of sacrifice and selflessness, which inspires an ability to see others' needs outside of myself. life isn't always about y.o.u., but in many respects it is about a larger you called us. porcelaine Hi porcelaine I really like your comment and find it also fitting to who I am. oceanwynds

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