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Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/21/2009 4:42:38 PM   
MsFlutter


Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline 		SJC OK’s secret use of GPS devices

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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/21/2009 4:47:55 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline 		I am not at all happy about this. What frightens me more is what happens when they start allowing use of a person's own gps device to track them.

I find this whole idea slight Orwellian.


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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/21/2009 4:54:18 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I am not at all happy about this.

What precisely is the Orwellian difference between this and putting a "tail" on a suspect?

K.

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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/21/2009 5:46:19 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

What precisely is the Orwellian difference between this and putting a "tail" on a suspect?
ORIGINAL: Kirata



I think it's the slippery slope that gives me the creeps on this one. Putting a tail on someone requires manpower, time and effort on the part of the law enforcement community. A gps, unless I thoroughly misunderstand the technology, the gps means that a person can be located, tracked and logged no matter where they go, no matter what they do and without any effort on the part of the trackers.

Now so far, this isn't all that bad. The law enforcement officers are planting gps systems of their own in cars. But gps units are becoming more and more common in cars. Again, unless I misunderstand the technology, an existent gps can be "tapped" to relay the data of location of any given person.

Together, they add up to the ability of law enforcement to track anyone, anytime, anywhere with no real outlay of manpower.

It may be a visceral reaction. It may be total paranoia. It still gives me the creeps.


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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/21/2009 5:57:54 PM   
Kirata


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Spinner,

I would have to agree that allowing the government to use a person's GPS (or cell phone) to keep tabs on them, absent reasonable suspicion of a crime and a properly obtained judicial warrant, would be a totally unacceptable invasion of privacy. And I'll be standing right beside you if anybody tries to go there. But, I just don't see this as being anything like that. It is incomparibly less expensive than the man-hours involved in tailing someone 24 hours a day, and less fraught with the risk of the person spotting their tail and losing it. Frankly, I call that a good deal all 'round.

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/21/2009 5:59:35 PM >

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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/21/2009 6:09:35 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I see nothing wrong with it. Better yet, if it can happen in liberal Massachusetts, it can happen here in liberal Wisconsin..

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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/21/2009 7:26:21 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I am convinced that there is no stopping it, I believe we're doomed as a civilization to plunge headlong into a full blown Orwellian world, the best we can hope to do is to slow down the progression a little bit. Cameras are everywhere, if you have a cell phone your "track" is on record, and there are satelites that are capable of reading license plates snapping constant images as well.

With Obamacare they'll have your medical records at their fingertips and there are too many nightmarish Orwellian scenarios regarding government controlled health care to even list. I work in a "Get Smart" building in which I have to scan in doors and elevator floors, every cop is wired for sound and for video these days... some cities scan every vehicle entering and run the plate.

And how far away can chipped implants be? My dog already has his. I could go on and on, but its too depressing. I think I'll go out and go for a walk instead.

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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/21/2009 8:13:27 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Spinner,

I would have to agree that allowing the government to use a person's GPS (or cell phone) to keep tabs on them, absent reasonable suspicion of a crime and a properly obtained judicial warrant, would be a totally unacceptable invasion of privacy. And I'll be standing right beside you if anybody tries to go there. But, I just don't see this as being anything like that. It is incomparibly less expensive than the man-hours involved in tailing someone 24 hours a day, and less fraught with the risk of the person spotting their tail and losing it. Frankly, I call that a good deal all 'round.

K.



Will your car rat you out? - MSN Money


It might tell others how far and how fast you travel -- and how well you drive. GPS technology can cut insurance costs and reassure parents, but it gives privacy experts pause.


Got a supermarket discount card? To save a little money, you're letting a grocer track your spending.The same concept is coming to your car.

A variety of navigational, wireless and sensory devices now allow insurers and authorities to track where you drive, how far, how fast and how well. In return, drivers, parents and employers are saving money on their insurance premiums.

But privacy experts are wary. Once the data are collected, how the information is used is limited only by the imagination of governments and multinational conglomerates.

"These devices have the potential to track you wherever you go, and the question is, who is going to have access to this data?" said Guilherme Roschke of the Electronic Privacy Information Center.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/21/2009 8:14:13 PM >

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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/21/2009 8:21:00 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Data from the onboard computers found in newer cars is being used in court to convict drivers of various offenses because they reveal details about the operation of the vehicle just prior to crashes, just like the black boxes that have been placed on airplanes for years. They aren't mandated by the government yet, but the day is coming that they will be.

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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/22/2009 8:08:51 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		A buddy of mine was involved with a PI a while back and actually planted such a device. It seemed a bit bulky but they are not all like that. The problem was that the tail was still required to get any meaningful evidence against the mark. His driving route is not enough.

However it does help, and the tail can reacquire the mark quickly, even if the tail has to duck out for a bit to avoid detection. For example, GPS can prove you drove to the massage parlor, but does nothing to prove that you took one of the girls in the back and paid the fee for 'special services'. So you drove to the bank, that does not prove that you were the one who chiseled out a hole in the wall and cleaned out the vault.

Werlcome to the game of cat and mouse, 2009 version. As always they will find new ways to find us and we will find new ways to hide.

T

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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/22/2009 8:16:05 AM   
theRose4U


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I am not at all happy about this.

What precisely is the Orwellian difference between this and putting a "tail" on a suspect?

K.

When you have law abiding people like me who have these types of devices used on their vehicle for the personal gain of the person that put them there. I moved out of a bad situation and couldn't understand how wierdo always seemed to show up where I was when I thought I'd been so careful. It wasn't until I started putting 2 and 2 together about my car being fiddled with (hood latch open& car doors away from the house left open all night) that I looked and found a little red blinking light on the undercarriage. Was more than a little upset by the whole thing.

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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/22/2009 8:56:56 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I see nothing wrong with it. Better yet, if it can happen in liberal Massachusetts, it can happen here in liberal Wisconsin..


land of tailgunner joe?

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RE: Secret use of GPS in Massachusetts - 9/22/2009 10:27:21 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Imagine trying to conduct a civil war though, if the supreme dictator has us all in the cross hairs 24/7/365. The right to bear arms becomes totally meaningless as a means of ensuring our enduring freedom.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

A buddy of mine was involved with a PI a while back and actually planted such a device. It seemed a bit bulky but they are not all like that. The problem was that the tail was still required to get any meaningful evidence against the mark. His driving route is not enough.

However it does help, and the tail can reacquire the mark quickly, even if the tail has to duck out for a bit to avoid detection. For example, GPS can prove you drove to the massage parlor, but does nothing to prove that you took one of the girls in the back and paid the fee for 'special services'. So you drove to the bank, that does not prove that you were the one who chiseled out a hole in the wall and cleaned out the vault.

Werlcome to the game of cat and mouse, 2009 version. As always they will find new ways to find us and we will find new ways to hide.

T


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