How proactive?

How proactive? (Full Version)

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worthlesstrash -> How proactive? (9/23/2009 7:37:43 AM)
Are you proactive in asking your sub/slave if they have done what they should? Example: Your sub/slave has a bedtime for 2am. You aren't home and have no way of knowing if they went to bed or not. Do you ask her the next day if she went to bed on time, or do you expect her to tell you if she didn't? Example: You have put your sub/slave on an eating plan. She is to keep a journal of everything she eats and the calories it had. (btw, this was her idea...she asked for help so she would have accountability). Do you ask her for the journal at the end of the day, or do you expect to automatically bring it to you? Since it was her idea in the first place, does it really have an importance to you? Why should you care if she doesn't? Those are just some examples of what I am trying to ask, not necessarily the exact situation. I think what I am trying to figure out is that I don't want to bug my M. I am sure that sounds strange, but I know he works and has other things on his mind. I don't want to bring him things or tell him things I have or haven't done if it's not really a big deal to him, yet I don't want to falter in this area so he thinks I am not really into it after all. Yes, I know communication is huge, I understand that. We are getting so much better at it, honestly. I know you aren't him so you can't say what he would want, I was just hoping to get some varying opinions on what you would want or expect. I will talk to him about this tonight anyway if we have the time, but I am trying to figure out exactly how I want to ask without seeming like a SAM or something. I don't want to seem needy, but yet I want to be proactive myself in our dynamic. Thank you.

DesFIP -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 8:11:29 AM)
Depends. How long have you been together? Is she finding this easy to do or difficult? How long has she been doing it? See if it's been six months and it is generally effective, then probably most of the time they won't keep asking since you've got it down now. If you start getting tired a lot, then he would start asking about bed time. Also in a new relationship, there needs to be more attention. If you've been together ten years you know she'll try her best to do it but doesn't need that kind of checking up on.

spookyfe -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 8:18:35 AM)
Mostly my master will expect me to tell him if i didnt do something like go to bed on time. he knows i will tell he may ask sometimes to check but not often. if its a plan hes put in place he will make sure he asks if i asked for it he will expect me to inform him and face the consequences if i dont

porcelaine -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 8:28:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: worthlesstrash Are you proactive in asking your sub/slave if they have done what they should? i think having someone follow up initially is important. whether the task was designed by the dominant or something the submissive asks him to assist her with. after a period of time i could see how this might wane, particularly if he isn't micromanagement oriented, which would drive me insane. but until the trust and understanding have been solidified i don't mind him checking in, in fact i like it. if he never does this or reviews the tasks he's requested of me, such as the journal you mentioned, i'd probably feel a little disconcerted and wonder if it was important at all. not very good i know, but it is an honest answer. i managed to overcome those feelings in the past but it wasn't easy. i finally accepted that my obedience was more important than his acknowledgment in that situation. simply because thinking otherwise was stimulating feelings of reactance which i had to combat. i don't feel there's anything wrong with asking. but don't assume it slipped his mind when you do. or latch on to the idea that he will start checking up on you either. his behavior may not change. which is something you must accept before you broach the subject. if you continue to perform as requested in the spirit of service without expectation on his end it will probably be less upsetting. take it in a different context and it will make sense. your boss gives you something to do. you may have several tasks. unless he's insane it is unlikely he is constantly querying you about your status or if it has been completed. more than likely it is a given in his mind and verification is not necessary. your proficiency and character have probably have contributed to his willingness to be more hands off. your continued compliance and reliability decrease his need to follow up as much as he might have done early on. you will probably see something similar play out in your relationship. good luck. porcelaine

worthlesstrash -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 8:29:44 AM)
We have been together for 3 yrs. It's just recently that he has wanted this type of control, I think that's why I am sort of feeling my way around a bit. I do talk to him about things, but I don't want to talk him to death either ") I have never had a bedtime, I have never had an eating plan, I forget to answer him the way he wanted, yet he never says anything. Then I am like, well..it's not a big deal to him obviously, so why would I mess with these things anymore? Maybe that's it....I feel like since he isn't checking on these things and only knows if I tell him..that perhaps he just doesn't want to mess with it after all. Heck..I don't know.

worthlesstrash -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 8:34:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: worthlesstrash Are you proactive in asking your sub/slave if they have done what they should? i think having someone follow up initially is important. whether the task was designed by the dominant or something the submissive asks him to assist her with. after a period of time i could see how this might wane, particularly if he isn't micromanagement oriented, which would drive me insane. but until the trust and understanding have been solidified i don't mind him checking in, in fact i like it. That is a big part of it I think. This is a new part of our relationship and when he isn't inquiring, I sort of feel like maybe he just doesn't want to mess with it, or me. He is the main one that wanted all of this, so it confuses me some. I also have to think though that he has other things on his mind right now and I am sure this isn't at the top of his list. I told him that if he was more of a Top, there wasn't anything wrong with it..we could do that, but he said NO..this is what he wanted, to have complete control. So..here we are. if he never does this or reviews the tasks he's requested of me, such as the journal you mentioned, i'd probably feel a little disconcerted and wonder if it was important at all. not very good i know, but it is an honest answer. i managed to overcome those feelings in the past but it wasn't easy. i finally accepted that my obedience was more important than his acknowledgment in that situation. simply because thinking otherwise was stimulating feelings of reactance which i had to combat. That is how I feel I think. While I thought it was important..it just doesn't seem to be. i don't feel there's anything wrong with asking. but don't assume it slipped his mind when you do. or latch on to the idea that he will start checking up on you either. his behavior may not change. which is something you must accept before you broach the subject. if you continue to perform as requested in the spirit of service without expectation on his end it will probably be less upsetting. I think I do assume that. take it in a different context and it will make sense. your boss gives you something to do. you may have several tasks. unless he's insane it is unlikely he is constantly querying you about your status or if it has been completed. more than likely it is a given in his mind and verification is not necessary. your proficiency and character have probably have contributed to his willingness to be more hands off. your continued compliance and reliability decrease his need to follow up as much as he might have done early on. you will probably see something similar play out in your relationship. good luck. porcelaine

porcelaine -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 9:06:49 AM)
don't try and label him and define how that will play out. by saying he's a top you give the impression he has no desire to maintain control which could be wrong. if he has other things on his plate that might interfere with his attention. time management is not everyone's forte. many people have trouble juggling multiple things and if that is his nemesis you'll have to find a strategy that works well for you. maybe you can suggest a reminder service for him that will notify him so you don't need to bring it up. plus it keeps him accountable as well. since this is something he suggested. your feelings are understandable. i went through this and i found myself withdrawing and feeling blase about the activities. but finally i said this situation isn't worth the havoc it is causing to my submission. so i bit the bullet and did it and put the uneasiness away. it was a lesson for me as well. you have to know your triggers and what will set you off in order to combat them. is it possible for you to get pleasure from this as well if he never inquires? if no, why not? assumptions are a migraine in the making. sometimes we're right and others we're dead wrong. spend some time with your thoughts before you speak to him and have some concrete answers when you do. which means you should get the other stuff out and have a good vent before you bring this up. otherwise it might not go the way you'd hope. good luck. porcelaine

ranja -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 9:47:30 AM)
My Husband will ask about my day, and about anything that i needed to do... if i haven't done it then He will ask why and He might be annoyed and then i feel stupid for not having done it even if i think i had a good reason... He is not very likely to make a big deal out of anything though and sometimes i might mistake that for disinterest on His part and sometimes i will make a big deal out of that and become annoying and nag Him until He shuts me up. He does not always care to put tasks my way... sometimes it seems that He can not be bothered to order me about... sometimes He orders me about and it is me who can not really be bothered and wished He left me alone... it is all about timing and reading each other. I have learnt over the years that it pays off when i am very precise and articulate and polite when i have a problem with Him... an ill thought out accusation about an obscure desire on my part will only land us in a bad argument and we will both lose. He is a very smart and reasonable man... it is not good to raise a problem as a vague but demanding and emotional wench as i can be sometimes... still we have survived

mnottertail -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 9:52:44 AM)
See the movie, 'Gosford Park', and pay close attention to Helen Murrins last speech, in that movie. Live it------------- you will do well, grasshopper. You will enhance a life. Ron

sirsholly -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 10:12:47 AM)
quote: Are you proactive in asking your sub/slave if they have done what they should? If hubby did this with me i would get the impression he feels i do not have any self discipline and i would feel there is a lack of trust on his part. If i have something to do, i do it. It i generally not discussed unless there is a complication or he has a question about it (ie if i am taking the car in to be inspected, of course he will ask the details).

happylittlepet -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 10:39:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: worthlesstrash We have been together for 3 yrs. It's just recently that he has wanted this type of control, I think that's why I am sort of feeling my way around a bit. I do talk to him about things, but I don't want to talk him to death either ") I have never had a bedtime, I have never had an eating plan, I forget to answer him the way he wanted, yet he never says anything. Then I am like, well..it's not a big deal to him obviously, so why would I mess with these things anymore? Maybe that's it....I feel like since he isn't checking on these things and only knows if I tell him..that perhaps he just doesn't want to mess with it after all. Heck..I don't know. How does this fit in with your thread of 4 days ago? http://www.collarchat.com/m_2811598/mpage_1/tm.htm Since when do you have an eating plan, a bed time and rules for answering him? Just curious.

worthlesstrash -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 11:05:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: happylittlepet quote: ORIGINAL: worthlesstrash We have been together for 3 yrs. It's just recently that he has wanted this type of control, I think that's why I am sort of feeling my way around a bit. I do talk to him about things, but I don't want to talk him to death either ") I have never had a bedtime, I have never had an eating plan, I forget to answer him the way he wanted, yet he never says anything. Then I am like, well..it's not a big deal to him obviously, so why would I mess with these things anymore? Maybe that's it....I feel like since he isn't checking on these things and only knows if I tell him..that perhaps he just doesn't want to mess with it after all. Heck..I don't know. How does this fit in with your thread of 4 days ago? http://www.collarchat.com/m_2811598/mpage_1/tm.htm Since when do you have an eating plan, a bed time and rules for answering him? Just curious. We communicated about them and they are things we came up with together. Some of them are just his, some are ones that I asked him to help me with. Like I said, I will talk to him about this also..just wondered what others thought on the subject. I think porcelain hit it right on the head for me..those are many of the feelings I have. I have been thinking about the things she went over in her last post and trying to answer the questions in myself.

worthlesstrash -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 11:10:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: Are you proactive in asking your sub/slave if they have done what they should? If hubby did this with me i would get the impression he feels i do not have any self discipline and i would feel there is a lack of trust on his part. If i have something to do, i do it. It i generally not discussed unless there is a complication or he has a question about it (ie if i am taking the car in to be inspected, of course he will ask the details). This is how I have been doing it the past three years. It was only after he told me he thought it didn't feel I was his slave anymore that the whole thing came up. (I think what he really missed here was our play time as much as anything, we have both been so busy, wrapped up in other things, maybe by taking this different approach he feels he is securing those times as well)When I told him I just did what should be done, he agreed. He then took it to this different level, which I admit I am still getting used to. I think because having things managed in such a way is so different for me, I am trying to figure out exactly how to handle it all. That's why I am taking things one at a time, not rushing it, but I don't want to neglect it either. I could also do with the fact I am off of school all week and I have way too much time to analyze everything.[8D] I hope that makes sense..it seems what I say keeps coming out wrong.

Acer49 -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 2:07:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: worthlesstrash Are you proactive in asking your sub/slave if they have done what they should? Example: Your sub/slave has a bedtime for 2am. You aren't home and have no way of knowing if they went to bed or not. Do you ask her the next day if she went to bed on time, or do you expect her to tell you if she didn't? This Master does not believe in micromanaging, if the sub failed, it is up to her to honest and tell the Master Example: You have put your sub/slave on an eating plan. She is to keep a journal of everything she eats and the calories it had. (btw, this was her idea...she asked for help so she would have accountability). Sub woud be required to show the Master nightly for his review Do you ask her for the journal at the end of the day, or do you expect to automatically bring it to you? Since it was her idea in the first place, does it really have an importance to you? Why should you care if she doesn't? This is part of the subs nightly ritual, showing her Master the journal after she has made her entries Those are just some examples of what I am trying to ask, not necessarily the exact situation. I think what I am trying to figure out is that I don't want to bug my M. I am sure that sounds strange, but I know he works and has other things on his mind. I don't want to bring him things or tell him things I have or haven't done if it's not really a big deal to him, yet I don't want to falter in this area so he thinks I am not really into it after all. Well a Master should want to review, however all you can do is fill out the jornals and have them available for him to look at, at his leisure Yes, I know communication is huge, I understand that. We are getting so much better at it, honestly. I know you aren't him so you can't say what he would want, I was just hoping to get some varying opinions on what you would want or expect. Relationships are work and require dedication, if people are not willing to nurture it, the relationship will die I will talk to him about this tonight anyway if we have the time, but I am trying to figure out exactly how I want to ask without seeming like a SAM or something. I don't want to seem needy, but yet I want to be proactive myself in our dynamic. Sometimes you need to realize what is important and make the time Thank you.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 2:15:49 PM)
quote: Are you proactive in asking your sub/slave if they have done what they should? Example: Your sub/slave has a bedtime for 2am. You aren't home and have no way of knowing if they went to bed or not. Do you ask her the next day if she went to bed on time, or do you expect her to tell you if she didn't? Example: You have put your sub/slave on an eating plan. She is to keep a journal of everything she eats and the calories it had. (btw, this was her idea...she asked for help so she would have accountability). Do you ask her for the journal at the end of the day, or do you expect to automatically bring it to you? Since it was her idea in the first place, does it really have an importance to you? Why should you care if she doesn't? Our household runs heavily on protocol, but we also tend to attract highly responsible individuals on both sides of the kneel. For my part, in the situations indicated above, I would trust that a servant of mine would go to bed at 2am if that was what we agreed to. I would expect the same of any similar kind of responsibility that had been agreed to. I would also expect that, if xhe failed to meet hir responsibilities, xhe would let me know -- in advance if possible to obtain permission, but if that wasn't possible (an emergency, etc.) then after the fact. Depending on the circumstances would determine whether there was any disciplinary action involved. OTOH, if, by some chance, I happened to catch a servant willfully disobeying or constantly "forgetting" that agreement, I would interpret that as a serious issue in our relationship, and a point where xhe was really not committed to yielding to my authority. That would be something that we would either need to resolve, or the relationship would need to end. On the second situation, or ones like it, where a long-term assignment was given that didn't necessarily relate directly to active service, but was something xhe was doing for hirself that would have benefits for many areas of hir life and which xhe had asked for my assistance in fulfilling, I would not necessarily check the assignment daily, but at random points, I would certainly ask to see it to see how xhe was progressing. If it was incomplete, I would certainly want to know why. If the inconsistency was repeated or intentional, then the above would certainly apply. It has been well documented that "consistency" is not truly beneficial to facilitating growth in others -- whether it comes to reward or discipline, a "random but present" approach provides both reinforcement of appropriate behavior and captures cases where further discipline is beneficial. This has been my experience as well, and is the pattern I prefer in managing those who answer to me, regardless of the situation under which they answer to me (as Dame, philosophical instructor, counselor, business superior, or parent). Dame Calla

aldompdx -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 2:40:40 PM)
Formal protocol is one thing. Substantive integrity is quite another. I do not engage in a game of playing "robot" where one strictly and blindly follows a program without the exercise of discrimination, responsibility, and maturity. I help one to enhance their own "self truth." If you can't be honest with your self, and take personal responsibility for your choices, it simply does not matter how you act externally. Rules are necessary for those who have difficulty doing the right thing in the first instance. Learn to do well, to openly share instead bargaining to take, and formal rules of protocol become irrelevant.

IronBear -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 3:13:02 PM)
Fuck a duck! Once again I am in complete agreement with aldompdx (not so surprising really but I just see things somewhat differently). One thing I insist on are well written and up to date journals. Both Neets and I enjoy sharing information about how our days went if we are not both home. With slaves, I will read their journals as I find time and at infrequent moments so as to keep myself updated and in the loop. I also expect questions to be asked any time there is some question about how I want something done.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 3:53:32 PM)
quote: Learn to do well, to openly share instead bargaining to take, and formal rules of protocol become irrelevant. I hope that I can agree with this and still express a clarification of terms -- see, this statement gives the impression that "protocols" are only useful in those situations where one party cannot or will not learn or take responsibility. Protocols, in our situation, aren't really related to -disciplines- as much as to -rituals-... table service, greetings, tea service, forms of speech... I think that it is important to differentiate between "robotic" protocol meant to "automate" a relationship and abrogate responsibility for actions and decisions on either or both sides of the kneel and -functional- protocol that 'decorates' or 'enhances' a relationship in the same way that finely-crafted art can decorate a home. I agree with you that, first and foremost, it comes down to personal responsibility, second to one's commitment to what you are creating, and that, if one can manage personal responsibility for what one has agreed to, everything else falls into place, and when that happens, 'decorations' in the relationship refine but do not -define- that relationship. Dame Calla

Musicmystery -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 7:50:35 PM)
Who would have time for such micromanagement? Let alone interest.

littlewonder -> RE: How proactive? (9/23/2009 8:25:59 PM)
Master rarely asks me if I've done what I am supposed to do. He expects me to be honest with him if I don't do something plus I usually get a guilty conscience anyway if I don't tell him. He has a busy life and I don't expect him to ask me all the time. I would feel like a burden upon him if I did. He expects me to be an adult and act like it.

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