RE: Abusive Relationship vrs Unhealthy Relationship

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RE: Abusive Relationship vrs Unhealthy Relationship - 3/2/2006 8:08:15 AM

amayos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dom4me2

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
An extremely interesting, if not immensely ambitious subject worthy of discourse far exceeding the capacity of this board.

The debate of what is healthy and what is unhealthy abuse inevitably lends itself to a quilt of semantics and relativism. In the end, I feel there is no one profile, quote, qualifier, label or thread of intellectual deliberation that can offer reliable differentiation between what is healthy and what is not, what is non-productive abuse and what is not. What is hell for some may be heaven for others.

This in the end is a reality that those who would appoint themselves as arbiters need to reflect upon.

I respectfully disagree. I think it can be summed up with the following:

"Safe, Sane and Consentual"

Kathleen

Well, that is a rather broad brush subject to a myriad interpretations. Like it or not, there is an area of "BDSM" that becomes somewhat muddy.

Safe: Asphyxiative intercourse—though consensual—isn't exactly the pinnacle of safety. Neither is any form of severe physical punishment that puts the body under stress.

Sane: An entirely speculative and semantic term. What is sane for you is based on your experience and understanding, and likewise, his/hers. There are many outside of the BDSM circle who view even the mildest form of D/s to be "unhealthy". One could apply this point to the "safe" category as well.

Consensual: Once again, I feel this is entirely relative. What is a relationship today based on the prized tenets of leather mantra safety tethers may shift in dynamic and meaning tomorrow. For some, the true meaning of slave is a personal ideal. Neither safe, sane nor consensual, from many mainstream and even BDSM enthusiast points of view.

In the end the SSC mantra is extremely useful in BDSM/fetish public relations campaigns. It's catchy, inoffensively palatable and nearly impossible to argue against—not to mention wise for newcomers to reflect upon. But does this acronym apply to all creatures, as you or I or anyone else would interpret broadly? Of course not.

< Message edited by amayos -- 3/2/2006 8:24:30 AM >

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RE: Abusive Relationship vrs Unhealthy Relationship - 3/2/2006 8:15:44 AM

yourMissTress

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Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

more Interesting thoughts to consider... many profess that the submissive has all the power in the relationship.... if this is true... then how is it possible that a submissive is ever abused.... since the Dominant for some doesn't have any power to misuse... the submissive as it all. I also hear countless times that the submissives give all the power to the Dominant... so does that mean that a Dominant can't be abused?

One of the many definitions of the word

Power: The ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority.

This one seemed to be the best fit for our purposes.

Share:
To allow someone to use or enjoy something that one possesses
To use or enjoy something jointly or in turns:

The submissive doesn't have all the power in the relationship. The submissive has their own power. The exchange of power is the sub sharing their power with the Dominant. The sub is giving the D the ability to excercise control or authority over the s. The D in turn accepts that power or ability to excercise control or authority over the s. If the D then proceeds to exert their ability to excercise control or authority of the s, and the s complies, they are successfully sharing power.

Looking at the above statements it would appear as though the sub does indeed have all the power, for if they stop sharing their power with the D, the D has nothing. But the D has to accept the sharing of power from the s. If the D doesn't want the power and doesn't accept it, there is no sharing. Sharing is an action that requires 2 or more people to participate. Just as the s can take the power back by not obeying, and thus not allowing the D to use or enjoy that which the s possesses, the D can refuse to exert the power that they now hold over the s, effectively not using or enjoying that which the s has offered to share.

In a D/s relationship there is a great deal of responsibility placed on each partner. Initially, the s has the responsibility of choosing a D wisely. Choosing a person whose moral code is similar to their own, who is Dominant not a spoiled brat that wants to run rampant over a s. Choosing a person that understands and respects their limits, a person whose relationship and life goals are congruent with their own. Choosing a person that they trust and believe in and have faith in. And finally conveying to that person what their goals are and what their limits are.

Once the s has subjugated themselves and the D takes the reigns, the responsibility now lies with the D. The D is now obligated to act in a manner consistent with the person that they presented themselves as to the s in the courting stage. The D now has the responsibility to care for and train the s. To exert their power over the s in such a way as to grow the relationship in the direction of the goals set forth. To act in a manner worthy of the trust and faith placed in them by their s. Most importantly the D, while using their power over the s to fulfill their own needs will be furthering the best interest of the s.

D/s power exchange is a very intricate and delicate balance of many components. Deceit, dishonesty and irresponsible behavior on any part can equal disaster and worse, abuse. It is the D and the s in the courting and negotiating stage of the relationship that set the standards of how each expects to be and should be treated. Clear, honest and open communication are vitally important.

While physical, emotional and sexual abuse are easy to spot, malicious intent may not be so easy to detect. Can the s abuse the D? Yes, but the actual abuse is probably more difficult to realize and define. Topping from the bottom, taking advantage of or manipulating people and situations, playing mind games are just a few examples.

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RE: Abusive Relationship vrs Unhealthy Relationship - 3/2/2006 8:33:23 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

So, what is the standard.... who dictates the standard that a submissive should be treated to?

I think that the only standard that could be applied here would be the one that you YOURSELF would abide by ( and by that I mean that everyone has their own standards that they apply to their own lives ). You can't tell others how to live their lives, what's right and what's wrong...their own beliefs will not be the same as yours. All you can do is live your own life by what you feel is right and wrong.

quote:

For that matter, who dictates the standard that a Dominant should be treated to? Can't Dominant's be abused?

Same answer as above.

quote:

that power exists with all in a relationship. That power is shared and not exchange from one to the other!

I can tentatively agree with this. Both ( or all, if that be the case ) have power. Not only over themselves, but also, to a small degree, over each other.

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RE: Abusive Relationship vrs Unhealthy Relationship - 3/2/2006 11:45:16 AM

PenelopePitstop

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My interpretation:
Abusive relationship implies that at least one partner constantly and consistently acts in a way that is significantly detrimental to the other person's wellbeing.
Unhealthy relationship implies that at least one partner has the potential to act in a way that is significantly detrimental to the other person's wellbeing.
OO tricky one.

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RE: Abusive Relationship vrs Unhealthy Relationship - 3/2/2006 5:26:24 PM

redheadedfire4u

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I believe that any form of abusive relationship is unhealthy... even if learning comes out of it, the price is nearly always too high and there are so many better ways to get learning than this way.

An unhealthy relationship can be abusive but I tend to agree with others that unhealthy one does not have to be abusive.

My first point is what is healthy for one person can be disastrous for another. I do not think it is possible to view this in any form of black and white.

A stagnant relationship that neither party truly wants to be in but both are just stuck there going through the motions can be considered unhealthy. Detrimental to the growth of those involved? However many would look at this and see it as healthy, a consistent, comfortable relationship that harms no one and offers haven from the world at large? Who is right? Both or neither? Only the individuals themselves can really judge what is healthy or unhealthy for them unless it crosses into the realm of considered norms, but then who is to decide what these norms are? If it crosses too far into unhealthy will it come under the banner of abuse?

Can the same be said for abuse? Many in the vanilla world see all BDSM as abuse, yet those in BDSM draw distinctions based on the concept of SSC. Can we be so black and white, is anyone truly wrong or truly right or is this a decision of the individual involved as to what is healthy for them personally? Even in BDSM there are divisions on what is considered edge play and plain insanity and dangerous?

On all these issues there are large grey areas in between the clear cut black and white actions of conventional understanding of right and wrong, consensual and not; socially and culturally constructed interpretations of what is and is not within these areas of black and white healthy /unhealthy and abusive.

So in the end I am heading towards agreeing with amoyos:

quote:

An extremely interesting, if not immensely ambitious subject worthy of discourse far exceeding the capacity of this board.

The debate of what is healthy and what is unhealthy abuse inevitably lends itself to a quilt of semantics and relativism. In the end, I feel there is no one profile, quote, qualifier, label or thread of intellectual deliberation that can offer reliable differentiation between what is healthy and what is not, what is non-productive abuse and what is not. What is hell for some may be heaven for others.

I would add though that unless it is extreme, the only real valid arbitrators would be the individuals involved and those perhaps that are closely involved, but even so as amayos said,

quote:

This in the end is a reality that those who would appoint themselves as arbiters need to reflect upon.

These are just my opinions and not meant to be in anyway confrontational with others thoughts and ideas.

Warm smiles to all.

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