loaning out your sub? (Full Version)

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allthatjaz -> loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 4:32:33 AM)

I am putting this on both Ask a Master and Ask a Mistress because I am interested to see if the response from a Mistress differs from the response of a Master.

Would you consider loaning your sub out to another Dominant male?
If so would it have to be your idea and would you choose the other Master?
How would you feel if your sub asked you if she could be loaned out?
For those that have done it, how did it work out?





RavenMuse -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 5:08:10 AM)

Would you consider loaning your sub out to another Dominant male?

I have done so before (not just will My current girl but with a number of My past girls) and no doubt will do so again

If so would it have to be your idea and would you choose the other Master?

Yes... and No.

My girl enjoys needleplay, I don't do needles... if I want to indulge My girl with needleplay then I have a Friend who is very competent and well trusted who I will arrange for her to play with.

Both Myself and My girl are Poly, We can and do form emotional attachments with more than one person at a time, no one person can be everything to You, We both get a lot out of having those connections to others. Even when We find Our third We will still take on the occasional playpartner. In her case she has to find someone she discovers a potential connection with, then I get to know them and decide whether I can potentialy trust them... if so then limited permission is given and they can begin to discover whether that potential has legs to go anywhere. The more time goes on, the more that connection is strengthened and the more My trust in them is built then the less restrictive the bounderies on the permission becomes..... if something suddenly makes Me loose that trust in them that their actions will remain positive to My girl.... then I can and do cut the entire process to an immediate halt. Currently there is only one person who has earned that trust as has virtualy no limitations set by Me in dealing with My girl.

Summery... if it is an action (Type of play) then I will choose.... If it is a connection she will find them and then it is brought to Me for approval/permission.

How would you feel if your sub asked you if she could be loaned out?

See above, that is normal for Our Dynamic.... I had to teach her that it was OK, now she is quite comfortable in doing so.

For those that have done it, how did it work out?

Never had it go badly yet. But then the other person always knows any authority is only delegated, she remains Mine and her submission is to Me. If I loose My trust in how they handle that delegated authority it will be INSTANTLY removed and the person bumped back to 'just' a friend at best, personna non grata at worst (I haven't had to take the latter option so far on someone I have given permission for)

What do I get out of it? A happier, more fulfilled girl which makes for a happier Me... and it is always handled so as to not inconvenience Me... win-win situation.



DarkSteven -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 5:29:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Would you consider loaning your sub out to another Dominant male?

It depends.  For sex, no.  For nonsexual play, possibly,  For service, probably.
quote:


If so would it have to be your idea and would you choose the other Master?

Nope.
quote:


How would you feel if your sub asked you if she could be loaned out?

Probably insecure - "What does he have that I don't?", but I'd get over it.
quote:


For those that have done it, how did it work out?


When I was new to the scene, I loaned out a sub for limited play with another Dom.  They ignored my limits.  She ended up dumping me for him.



RavenMuse -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 5:52:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Probably insecure - "What does he have that I don't?", but I'd get over it.


Just to comment on this..... What does He have that I don't?.... the same as what a playpartner has that My girl doesn't... Difference, different style, different reactions, different chemistry, different 'buttons', different ways of communicating... they are a different person.... variety is interesting, enthraling and understandable.... it doesn't mean there is anything wrong or to be insecure about.

You maybe enjoy steak... but do you eat stake every night? Do you not enjoy the variety of a nice juicy burger every so often.... I certainly do and so does My girl.

Just another way of viewing it [:)]



IronBear -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 6:20:17 AM)

For me, it will be dependent on the reason a slave is being loaned, or for that matter hired out. If it is purely for stud services (if a male slave) of for general sexual reasons, the loaning/hiring will be on my terms and unless I know the Master or Mistress extremely well I will be there to ensure safety.  I will say that I would only loan or hire a slave out if I knew they could handle it or were indeed eager to be loaned/hired out. Hire fees would be negotiated and would be substantial. Loaning is more likely to be because I wish to gift someone with personal services for some reason. I should add that this would not be the norm but more likely to be a rather rare thing unless the slave begged to be used by people I found suitable. (Safe sex would be mandatory ~ If it's (condom) not on, then it (the service) is not on. Pure and simple). As fare as loaning or even hiring a slave for BDSM play, I want to know the "client" well enough to know he or she is not insane nor an unidentified serial killer or abuser. I will be present in any case. If it is at a play party (private) which I am at, and provided I am happy safety wise, not problems as some have in the past been kind enough to loan me their property to have a play partner to practice on. 



DarkSteven -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 6:30:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Hire fees would be negotiated and would be substantial.


Bear, I don't know squat about Australian law, but in the USA, loaning out a sub for sex for payment would be considered prostitution and would be illegal.



allthatjaz -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 7:03:55 AM)

Thanks for your replies.

I also found it interesting that Bear mentioned hire fees. I hadn't thought about this side of things but its possibly an easy thing to do with a fem sub and almost impossible with a male sub. I think money exchange would be a very risky area to get into because if caught the Master would be seen as the pimp.




porcelaine -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 7:06:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I am putting this on both Ask a Master and Ask a Mistress because I am interested to see if the response from a Mistress differs from the response of a Master.

Would you consider loaning your sub out to another Dominant male?
If so would it have to be your idea and would you choose the other Master?
How would you feel if your sub asked you if she could be loaned out?
For those that have done it, how did it work out?


i recently had this discussion and the consensus was there are certain situations where lending is warranted and welcome. there are service oriented circumstances that i wouldn't hesitate to suggest or comply with if i'm able to offer the dominant or his slave my assistance. particularly if either party are of importance to my owner.

however, sexual and play related scenarios generally require a lot of dialogue and comfort from both sides. i have no qualms in this area, but it isn't mine to decide. it would probably take a special situation for this to happen, or at the very least a level of trust and respect between both parties and a well defined benefit for my owner. otherwise it would never occur.

porcelaine



OsideGirl -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 7:34:50 AM)

My agreement with Master was that I would never be loaned out for BDSM, D/s or sex.

I have been loaned out to paint and do interior design for his friends.



allthatjaz -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 7:51:33 AM)




I have noticed that when I have a male sub they suddenly become more desirable to other Mistresses and its often tempting to go down that road of loaning them out.
I have to say though that I have done it once and things happened during that loan out that would make me think twice about considering it again.
I have also taken on the loan of someone elses sub but I felt like I was second in command. The sub in question was not doing things for me but for his 'one and only' and I felt like a puppet.
I also know a fem sub that was loaned out by her Master/husband and who never returned but then I think perhaps she had her own little agenda going on in the first place.





allthatjaz -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 7:56:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse


My girl enjoys needleplay, I don't do needles... if I want to indulge My girl with needleplay then I have a Friend who is very competent and well trusted who I will arrange for her to play with.



I have done needleplay on lots of other peoples subs whilst the Master/Mistress was present but I don't ever think of needleplay as a dominant act. I have even branded a fem sub whilst her Master looked on but that was because he was frightened to do it and they both wanted a neat brand.



porcelaine -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 8:42:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I also know a fem sub that was loaned out by her Master/husband and who never returned but then I think perhaps she had her own little agenda going on in the first place.


i would say that is probably the case. her refusal to return negates the premise of what lending implies. while i'm willing to provide service in the manner agreed upon, there is no place like home. i am his, not the borrower's property.

porcelaine



SaharahEve -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 9:05:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I am putting this on both Ask a Master and Ask a Mistress because I am interested to see if the response from a Mistress differs from the response of a Master.

Would you consider loaning your sub out to another Dominant male?
If so would it have to be your idea and would you choose the other Master?
How would you feel if your sub asked you if she could be loaned out?
For those that have done it, how did it work out?



What a lovely idea. [:)] I think dominant Woman would benefit greatly from sisterhood resource sharing. Helping one another engenders joy (real happiness). The question is: can Women unite more and compete less? I think they can; they just have to learn to trust one another. Same for men and competition for Females.



RavenMuse -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 9:10:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I have done needleplay on lots of other peoples subs whilst the Master/Mistress was present but I don't ever think of needleplay as a dominant act. I have even branded a fem sub whilst her Master looked on but that was because he was frightened to do it and they both wanted a neat brand.



Likewise I don't see any 'action' as Dominant or submissive, however both the people I deem competent enough (From My Own observations when I've seen them play) with needles happen to be Dominant (Though one has switched in the past)

The fact that the 'loan' is to a Dominant person and some limited delegated authority goes with it, separates it from when I give her permission to get intimate with someone where there is no form of dynamic (And thus no delegated authority... simply permission).... with My current girl she rarely finds a female with whom she feels any Dynamic, but sometimes feels an intimate/sexual draw toward another female submissive. I don't have a problem with that, nor do I feel any impulse to be involved... unless I happen to also have a spark with the girl in question.... in which case We maybe looking at a potential third [:)]

Oh and I wouldn't be 'hiring' her out at any price... I am not a pimp!



happylittlepet -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 9:19:22 AM)

It seems the thread in the Mistress section is gone, or did I miss something? Would it be possible for the Mistresses who had already responded there to maybe add their thoughts here? Very interesting subject.

Edit: this is of course none of my business [:D]



allthatjaz -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 10:04:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: happylittlepet

It seems the thread in the Mistress section is gone, or did I miss something? Would it be possible for the Mistresses who had already responded there to maybe add their thoughts here? Very interesting subject.

Edit: this is of course none of my business [:D]


I specifically wanted to see how the reactions differed between Masters and Mistresses and that's why I put this thread in both rooms. Some Masters just never go to the Mistress room and likewise some Mistresses don't ever visit the Masters room.
I received a message saying that double posting is not allowed and so it looks like we are only left with a view from the Masters and a few of the Mistresses that come in here.............. My apologies.



IronBear -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 10:21:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Hire fees would be negotiated and would be substantial.


Bear, I don't know squat about Australian law, but in the USA, loaning out a sub for sex for payment would be considered prostitution and would be illegal.



Your quite right in this on a technical aspect. However prostitution is not illegal here but heavily controlled which is why professional Dom/Dommes are governed under the sex workers act and regulations especially regarding health. There are quite a lot og lads and lasses who do private escort work working for them selves. if a bloke is taking the money however he can be charged for living off the earnings unless he has a "normal' job. My comments were more of allowing a girl to do sexual service or a fee which is part of the game. What she earns is hers, unless they alter a few things and allow me to open a top class brothel with a dungeon attached. (Been a fantasy of mine for years as it has for a few blokes I know). However, fees don't have to be in cash but reciprocal services or similar. (My girl has sex with you and you fix my car sort of thing).

The one area I didn't mention (In the midst of building several new web sites for my new businesses), is the lone or even hire of a service slave for house cleaning tasks. That could work well in some areas especially if the Master or Mistress was disabled and thus had the joy of a service slave for a day.



daddysprop247 -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 10:44:37 AM)

hi jazz...i realize i am a slave, not a Master, but i could not resist speaking up on this thread as my Master does loan me out domestically and sexually to other men only, both Dominants and "vanillas." this has been a facet of our relationship from the very start, and in our 9 years together i honestly cannot count how many men he has shared me with, many dozens i suppose.

since your question referred to being loaned out to Dominant men specifically, i'll share with you how that typically occurs. He will get to know another Dominant usually online first, and if they happen to share certain ideas and viewpoints about submission and slavery, and have interests that are appealing to my Master, he may then consider loaning me out to that person. sometimes it may be just once, other times it may be an ongoing situation. i generally have no say in these circumstances, unless after an experience with a particular Dominant i am left visibly emotionally or psychologically scarred.



LadyPact -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 11:18:09 AM)

I had answered this when it was in the other section.  Since that answer is gone, I'll try to reconstruct it here.  Changing the gender to reflect My personal case for the questions.

Would you consider loaning your sub out to another Dominant female.?

I have loaned clip out for things such as helping another Dominant female for things such as helping set up at events, participating in charity functions that she was running, etc.  I used to have a hideous work schedule that didn't always allow Me to attend the gatherings that I would have liked.  In those cases, I'd have clip go and assist with things such as set up or clean up so that he could be of use.

If so would it have to be your idea and would you choose the other Mistress?

That is something different than the way I answered the first question.  If it were looked at as personal or sexual service to someone else, I wouldn't permit it.  In the past, we did have an issue where clip overstepped in the area of personal service which he thought would be ok.  I had a different opinion.  The end result was that I punished him for it and made it very clear that if we had a repeat of the same situation, he would no longer be wearing My collar.

How would you feel if your sub asked you if she could be loaned out?

My sub can ask Me anything he wants.  That does not mean I am going to grant his request.

For those that have done it, how did it work out?

In the cases where clip was loaned to be an extra pair of hands at an event, it's always worked out well.  There's never been an issue with him being of use in assisting in community functions. 

As I'm sure it's easy to see from the way I answered the second, it didn't go well.  While clip is responsible for knowing what protocols to follow, the other Dominant female definitely overstepped when dealing with someone else's property.  Had I known prior that she was that type, clip wouldn't have been in her company in the first place.


That's the best I can do for reprinting what I had written last night.  After reading the other responses, I'd also like to add a couple of things.

It's highly unlikely that I would loan My sub out strictly for sexual service to another female.  If there was another male involved, it wouldn't be a case of loaning him out.  I'd still be there to have My fun with the arrangement.

I don't consider clip bottoming during S/m play as a service to someone else who is the top.  I see play and service as completely different things.  I do permit him to play with other tops that I approve of.  Personal service is a much different category.

Lastly, I do understand that you are hoping to get the different perspectives between male and females.  I wish the two threads could have been spliced somehow.  I'm curious to see if the answers are different between the genders as well.



designURshemale -> RE: loaning out your sub? (9/25/2009 11:32:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SaharahEve


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I am putting this on both Ask a Master and Ask a Mistress because I am interested to see if the response from a Mistress differs from the response of a Master.

Would you consider loaning your sub out to another Dominant male?
If so would it have to be your idea and would you choose the other Master?
How would you feel if your sub asked you if she could be loaned out?
For those that have done it, how did it work out?



What a lovely idea. [:)] I think dominant Woman would benefit greatly from sisterhood resource sharing. Helping one another engenders joy (real happiness). The question is: can Women unite more and compete less? I think they can; they just have to learn to trust one another. Same for men and competition for Females.


Just my words. What a lovely idea. Dominant women should absolutely benefit from sisterhood resource sharing. Why not!?



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