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Gwen

It's wrong, it's a form of indoctrination.

3% (1)

It's wrong, making money off the homeless.

9% (3)

It's a good idea, it teaches children morals.

18% (6)

It's harmless, it's just a toy.

3% (1)

Mattel should donate all money made to the homeless.

40% (13)

Who gives a shit?

25% (8)

Total Votes : 32

(last vote on : 9/27/2009 8:14:50 PM)
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Gwen - 9/26/2009 4:55:49 AM

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quote:

Every American Girl doll has a story. Julie Albright lives in the Haight/Ashbury in the 1970s. Kaya is a Native American girl of the Nez Perce tribe in the 1760s. Addy Walker is a fugitive slave in the 1860s. And Gwen Thompson, one of the Mattel company's newest dolls, is a homeless person living in 2009.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfmoms/detail?entry_id=48366

Saw some talking heads going on about this on tv this morn. Curious to what others think.

Multiple selections allowed.

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 5:09:58 AM

sirsholly

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The only issue i have with it is the 95.00 price tag.

The doll is homeless, yet she looks, and is, just like the other dolls a little girl would have. I cannot see how that message would be wrong.

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 5:21:41 AM

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Yeah, that's kinda pricey, isn't it?

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 5:22:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Yeah, that's kinda pricey, isn't it?

i think it is outrageous, actually.

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 6:32:52 AM

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fr

I have bought a lot of dolls for kids in the past, but I can't say I ever did it to teach them a "social lesson". I did it to give them something to play with, that made them happy. What's wrong with letting kids be kids, they will have plenty of time to be depressed over social issues when they get older.

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 6:37:25 AM

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Good point; most kids that are at that age aren't going to have the capability of being socially conscious, wouldn't it just scare them? "Mommy, is daddy going to leave us?" or "are we going to be homeless?".

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 6:40:45 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

fr

I have bought a lot of dolls for kids in the past, but I can't say I ever did it to teach them a "social lesson". I did it to give them something to play with, that made them happy. What's wrong with letting kids be kids, they will have plenty of time to be depressed over social issues when they get older.

Because quite a few of the dolls the kids are playing with, that make them happy, are of the Barbie type which is perpetuating an ideal that is not achievable by a normal healthy child and leads to a negative self image. Eating disorders units are full of these kids.

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 7:00:34 AM

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Yes, but Gwen has cankles, shouldn't we teach the young to avoid that?

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 7:03:48 AM

DarkSteven

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You could get a REAL homeles person for less than that!

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 8:50:46 AM

porcelaine

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i think the purpose is awareness, which is something that many children may not have in regard to social problems. as uncanny as it might seem it depends on where you live and the elements found in your vicinity. for the longest time you didn't encounter someone homeless in my neighborhood. although i knew it existed, it simply wasn't visible. a child raised in this area could be oblivious to such unless their parents informed them. that has changed but it isn't in the manner most might encounter.

as for the doll, the price is relative to the other items they sell. if she was priced below this there could be an argument that she's viewed as somewhat less important than the other dolls with less challenging stories. aside from this i'm a collector and the price model is appropriate. overall, i see it as a positive thing. if it fosters compassion and permits the child to see something outside of their spectrum that they can grow to love and value, maybe those same characteristics can be applied to other areas as well.

porcelaine

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 8:56:21 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

fr

I have bought a lot of dolls for kids in the past, but I can't say I ever did it to teach them a "social lesson". I did it to give them something to play with, that made them happy. What's wrong with letting kids be kids, they will have plenty of time to be depressed over social issues when they get older.

Because quite a few of the dolls the kids are playing with, that make them happy, are of the Barbie type which is perpetuating an ideal that is not achievable by a normal healthy child and leads to a negative self image. Eating disorders units are full of these kids.

Not sure what barbie has to do with a homeless doll, but I don't buy barbies, so maybe I missed something. Although if you scare a kid into thinking he might become homeless and daddy might leave, I guess that could effect his appetite. What's wrong with just letting them be kids? Do you honestly think a 4 year old needs to know about the homeless?

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 8:58:22 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Barbie doll exists to drop a fantasy on. That's why she has been everything from a ballerina to a vet to POTUS! (and her figure? well, 1950's Dior New Look. Watch a Kim Novak movie from then...)

I peeped into the American Girl store when I was in Chicago, and was happy to see lots of girls carting their dorries around... but dingaDANG that stuff is costly! Anyone carrying an AG is NOT aware of the idea of "we can't afford it".

That said, I am not wild for the latest trend among the more affluent of teaching kids about the greater world when they have no PERSPECTIVE. Yes, teach them to recycle. Yes, teach them that not everyone has a Wii with all the gadgets. Just don't put the fear into them---because THAT is what I am seeing with the faux grandson and his pals. Worry.

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 10:22:44 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

fr

I have bought a lot of dolls for kids in the past, but I can't say I ever did it to teach them a "social lesson". I did it to give them something to play with, that made them happy. What's wrong with letting kids be kids, they will have plenty of time to be depressed over social issues when they get older.

Because quite a few of the dolls the kids are playing with, that make them happy, are of the Barbie type which is perpetuating an ideal that is not achievable by a normal healthy child and leads to a negative self image. Eating disorders units are full of these kids.

Not sure what barbie has to do with a homeless doll, but I don't buy barbies, so maybe I missed something. Although if you scare a kid into thinking he might become homeless and daddy might leave, I guess that could effect his appetite. What's wrong with just letting them be kids? Do you honestly think a 4 year old needs to know about the homeless?

I gave the article a quick read before i last posted, so i am wondering if i missed something that said it was intended for a 4 yr old? Hopefully it is not... i agree with you that is way too young.

But look at the doll. She is not dressed in rags, is not emaciated, is not filthy, etc. She is just like any other doll possessed by a little girl, and that will hopefully introduce the fact that no one is better than anyone else no matter what their finances, home, etc. We tend to want to look away from those who are homeless, but what effect does our turning our heads have on a homeless child?

As to scaring a child that they can become homeless or a parent will leave...you are assuming they do not already know this in some fashion. This is not the Father Knows Best era...both parents work and the kids are in school and daycare. Do you honestly think they do not talk to each other? Do you think they have not heard other kids talking about dad leaving, moms new boyfriend, evictions forcing families out? It is on the news daily. If a child is in the home with the TV on, trust me, they have heard it, and it is a safe bet they are confused by it. If nothing else, that doll can open the door to a positive discussion about what the kids are hearing.

right or wrong...thats my two cents

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 10:38:51 AM

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I see that everyone is skirting the all-important cankles angle.

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Post #: 14

RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 10:39:32 AM

Aylee

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FFS! We are now supposed to BUY a toy to teach compassion and helping those less fortunate than ourselves? I think that if a child wants this doll, the $95 should be forked over and then have them go and pick out some toys and clothes for the local shelter or charity of your choice. Let the child take the donation in. Let them learn about what these programs are for. Make it an active lesson, instead of passive learning. Frankly I think that the child should be doing this anyways. I know that I take Butterhead along when we make contributions to the charity of my choice. It is a good lesson to instill. Giving instead of always taking.

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 10:51:37 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

FFS! We are now supposed to BUY a toy to teach compassion and helping those less fortunate than ourselves? I think that if a child wants this doll, the $95 should be forked over and then have them go and pick out some toys and clothes for the local shelter or charity of your choice. Let the child take the donation in. Let them learn about what these programs are for. Make it an active lesson, instead of passive learning. Frankly I think that the child should be doing this anyways. I know that I take Butterhead along when we make contributions to the charity of my choice. It is a good lesson to instill. Giving instead of always taking.

Girls play with dolls, Aylee. Why not this as opposed to another doll such as Barbie or Bratz? (aside from an absolutely stupid price)

And when i BUY a toy it is always to teach something.. Why not compassion and understanding and acceptance? I do not NEED to buy a toy to teach the LO these things, but on the flip side i also do not need a magnetic numbers board to teach him his numbers, or an alphabet puzzle to help teach him his ABC's...but i did buy them (and i bet you did too!!).

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 9/26/2009 10:53:04 AM >

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 11:25:20 AM

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Ok, perhaps I'm a bit........ behind the times, here, Hols....... but I never worried about whether a toy was going to Teach my spawn something, only about whether they were going to play with it, or ignore it in favor of the box it came in. Toys are there to be Fun - to engage simple imagination. That's the only lesson I worry about ANY toy "teaching" a child - is to use their imgaination and creativity in self directed play. Not whether they're going to be up to date on all the latest social issues before they're even out of grade school, and know how to read a newspaper to find out what those social issues Are.

$95 for ONE DOLL? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? I could get them an entire Christmas Season's worth of toys for that price.... and STILL teach them the whole "compassion/tis better to give than recieve/yada yada" lesson in the process, by taking them with me while I donated Time serving in a soup line, or working volunteer hours with a program that helps repair houses for the elderly, disabled, and unemployed. I'd rather teach my spawn Thrift - not to spend unghodly amounts on a single item just because it's a High Fasion model of that time - when they can get the same type of thing, and more of that same type of thing, for a Lot less $$ if they ignore that designer lable. My spawn wants a doll? Great - all for it. A $95 doll? Not a chance - though I might give her a $10 doll and donate the other $85 to the homeless this doll is supposed to represent!

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 11:34:27 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

but I never worried about whether a toy was going to Teach my spawn something, only about whether they were going to play with it, or ignore it in favor of the box it came in. Toys are there to be Fun - to engage simple imagination.

i agree. i did not mean to come off as someone who blocks the aisle in ToysRUs while debating the effect any given toy will have on his future.

A toy that gets a kid to use their creativity and imagination is as valuable as any of the "educational" toys...

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RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 11:42:14 AM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
Girls play with dolls, Aylee. Why not this as opposed to another doll such as Barbie or Bratz? (aside from an absolutely stupid price)

And when i BUY a toy it is always to teach something.. Why not compassion and understanding and acceptance? I do not NEED to buy a toy to teach the LO these things, but on the flip side i also do not need a magnetic numbers board to teach him his numbers, or an alphabet puzzle to help teach him his ABC's...but i did buy them (and i bet you did too!!).

I am not overly pleased with any doll. Bratz are not allowed in the house. Barbie is probably the best doll for a little girl to have. Baby dolls. . . need to be seriously considered and thought about.

I feel that this doll is a way for parents to feel better about the lack of good examples that they themselves are setting. It is one more way to not do anything. "Here honey, pity these people." instead of, "Here honey, this is activism and how you help to make the world a better place."

This doll is SEXIST!!!!!
A. It reinforces the "woman-as-caregiver" mentality. Also, passivity, nurturing, and emotinalism.
B. There is NO equivalent male toy. Which reinforces that males cannot be sensitive and caring.

We are still not acting societally and culturally to teach both sexes how to be a WHOLE person instead of a bundle of certain characteristics. And that is just not okay in my book.

Level: I am not totally sure what "cankers" are and I do not remember that from the article. Maybe I read too fast.

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Post #: 19

RE: Gwen - 9/26/2009 11:56:00 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

Barbie is probably the best doll for a little girl to have. Baby dolls. . . need to be seriously considered and thought about.

I feel that this doll is a way for parents to feel better about the lack of good examples that they themselves are setting. It is one more way to not do anything. "Here honey, pity these people." instead of, "Here honey, this is activism and how you help to make the world a better place."

This doll is SEXIST!!!!!
A. It reinforces the "woman-as-caregiver" mentality. Also, passivity, nurturing, and emotinalism.
B. There is NO equivalent male toy. Which reinforces that males cannot be sensitive and caring.

We are still not acting societally and culturally to teach both sexes how to be a WHOLE person instead of a bundle of certain characteristics. And that is just not okay in my book.

Level: I am not totally sure what "cankers" are and I do not remember that from the article. Maybe I read too fast.

we are on opposite sides here, as Barbie would never come close to my kid...but that is a different thread.

How do you get sexism out of a homeless doll, to say nothing about "women are caregivers"? Hell Aylee...do you think i am going to deny that a woman can be a caregiver? I am a woman and i am a caregiver. Why in the hell would i ever try to deny my role to my child?

As to having no male equivalent...it is a doll. Dolls do not come with a "how to" book of instructions on how they are to played with. It is the imagination that comes into play. Introduce a female doll and in no time a kid is going to be rooting through their toy box to find a male counterpart.Yes, it is a GIRL...and so what? What the hell difference does the sex of the doll have to do with homelessness?

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