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Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/27/2009 5:17:03 PM

Corpsbride

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I'm a bit curious to see some takes on this: what's the difference between spanking/flogging/knife play/play piercing, tattoos, and cutting/burning one's self? They're all forms of self harm, all done with consent, and tend to be frowned on by society.

There's the part of me that goes, "well, the SM play is done for sexual satisfaction--that's the difference", but it seems to me there has to be more than that.

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/27/2009 5:29:08 PM

kiwisub12

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Cutting or burning oneself is reportedly done to relieve mental pain and anguish.

Tattooing, knife play, spanking, flogging, caning , waxplay, play piercing and so on aren't done for self harm, typically they are done for sensual, sexual or fun reasons.

Big difference.

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/27/2009 5:29:28 PM

fluffypet61

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It often has nothing to do with sexual satisfaction, it's the endorphines and the power dynamic...the trust and the release.

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/27/2009 10:02:03 PM

Elipsis

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One big difference is intent, even if the action is the same. Just a quick example... hurting yourself (or having someone else hurt you) because pain and pleasure mix well together for you and you find it erotic and fun is probably healthier than hurting yourself because you think you're a bad person and deserve to suffer.

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/27/2009 11:07:20 PM

NihilusZero

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Nothing.

The acts of BDSM need not have any sexual facet to them, so using sexuality as the dividing point wouldn't fly.

There is no difference. We justify any such acts in our lives in myriad ways and, so long as the self-convincing is fruitful, they transcend the "bad" world into the "good".

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/27/2009 11:50:11 PM

DavanKael

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Possibly none, possibly intent and/or rationale.
Davan

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/27/2009 11:51:46 PM

ranja

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the difference obviously is that self harm is done by one self and bdsm play is between two or more people...

edited to add... that statement is probably wrong considering all the people who are into self bondage and such

i do not think self harm is wrong perse... i like at times to inflict pain upon myself... i pierced my own ear... (i think) i am ok...
i do think self harm is wrong if it is done because a person feels miserable

< Message edited by ranja -- 9/27/2009 11:53:32 PM >

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 12:52:35 AM

allthatjaz

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I think for a small minority there could well be a link. I have met enough people in this lifestyle that are self harmers or ex self harmers.
I have used the word 'self harm by proxi' for a long time because I do believe that some self harmers do get a rush from another person doing to them what they have been doing to themselves.
I have had direct experience with taking on a sub that (according to her) was an ex self harmer but when things went wrong she would send me pictures of her cutting herself up. I know she didn't do it when she was with me and I wonder if the BDSM play was a deep sort of therapy.
I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing but it can be very alarming for the other person involved when it all starts to go wrong.

I think the larger majority of the people that take the pain are not self harmers.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 9/28/2009 12:53:43 AM >

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 1:30:09 AM

Hierodule

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The difference for me is that one comes from love the other one comes from hate. I used to cut and burn myself when I was younger. But I won't be cut or burned in a sexual or BDSM context .Spanking, face slapping, caning, etc. hurt but also feel good. it never felt good when I used to cut and burn my self . That was the point. It was supposed to make me feel horrible because I hated myself. I did it becasue I didn't think I deserved to feel good. Some might argue that the same thing that drove me to harm myself drives me to seek a partner that will own me, control me, dominate me and "beat me." But I don't think so. Self harm is violence driven by selfloathing. BDSM can be violent but its driven by desire for mutual pleasure. Subtle but significant difference.

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 2:03:12 AM

TurboJugend

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My answer would be...you know the answer when you read the question.
But perhaps that is to easy..

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 4:27:21 AM

sweetsub1957

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Corpsbride

I'm a bit curious to see some takes on this: what's the difference between spanking/flogging/knife play/play piercing, tattoos, and cutting/burning one's self? They're all forms of self harm, all done with consent, and tend to be frowned on by society.

I've known a few self-cutters & they pretty much all had mental issues going on. I also know that, for the most part, the people I know who do bdsm don't, yet bdsm satisfies some kind of need in them. Other than that, I have no explanation.

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 4:40:18 AM

Moonhead

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Didn't a few people issue with the way Secretary connected self harming and masochism?

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 6:00:54 AM

sunshinemiss

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Please note: "selfish" and "self-centered" hold no negative connotations in the following:

Self harm is an act based inwardly. It is a purely selfish, self-centered act. There is nothing about it that connects one with another. It is about releasing, making manifest in the physical world, the psychic pain one is experiencing.

BDSM is a connection with another person or persons. The action can be selfish and self-centered, but the manifestation by its very nature is a connecting one. There is another person or persons involved. Because the context you are talking about is one in which the cutter is the bottom, the added element of a top being in charge, evaluating, keeping things safe, making the decisions, creates a more freeing environment for the bottom to lose her/himself in the pain, in the physiological reaction of the scene.

Both are ritualized, both are about releasing endorphins, both are deeply psychological states of being. In the end, there's no real difference and there is a world of difference.

peace,
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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 6:48:53 AM

MarcEsadrian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Corpsbride
There's the part of me that goes, "well, the SM play is done for sexual satisfaction--that's the difference", but it seems to me there has to be more than that.

Of course that Devil on your shoulder is on to something; it's not strictly for sexual / psychosexual satisfaction among all. That is a popular assumption, though among many in "BDSM", it indeed holds true. Some engage in sadomasochistic activities for escapism—sexual or not, others may engage in such acts out of a grandiose need for attention, while yet for others it is about self loathing, or any combination of these three. It's important to note that often those drives / characteristics are packaged as "submission", but they are closer to egocentricity of some form. In M/s, the physical acts follow the essence of the relationship: an alignment of one will to another and the conditioning therein.

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 8:53:20 AM

leadership527

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For me, it is all going to be about the intent, not the action. I don't do SM, but I have heard a wide variety of intents behind those actions... some of which are intriguing and others I find downright dysfunctional. I certainly don't think there's anything inherently spiritually good about masochism or sadism that somehow lifts them above the realm of other human activities.

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 11:19:53 AM

Acer49

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Corpsbride

I'm a bit curious to see some takes on this: what's the difference between spanking/flogging/knife play/play piercing, tattoos, and cutting/burning one's self? They're all forms of self harm, all done with consent, and tend to be frowned on by society.

There's the part of me that goes, "well, the SM play is done for sexual satisfaction--that's the difference", but it seems to me there has to be more than that.

All activities you list have the possibility of harm depending upon how they are engaged in. Spanking/flogging/knife play/play piercing is activities that while do have elements of pain and a possibility of harm; their ultimate climax is to bring a satisfaction of some sort. Tattoos, while normally permanent are also thought to bring on a sense of pleasure.

Cutting/burning are not normally activities used to achieve the same feelings as the ones above I would think. I am not sure of the mindset of individuals who practice this type of activity and can't speak for them, but the individuals I have known, are ones who have needed counseling about issues that have prompted this form of desire to engage in this type of activity.

S/m play, like all others, is not neccessarily about sexual gradification.

< Message edited by Acer49 -- 9/28/2009 11:22:15 AM >

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 11:39:42 AM

AnimusRex

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There isn't any bright shining line between self-harm and BDSM, just as there isn't any bright line between neurosis and extreme kink.

In my experience, it is really just a matter of degree, and to which it inhibits or enables us to live happy productive lives. We all suffer emotional and psychological assaults upon our psyche, ranging from the merely unpleasant, up to the soul-shattering traumatic.

We all use different methods to deal with it; some are helpful, others only deepen the trauma.

(in reply to Corpsbride)

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 2:31:42 PM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

quote:

ORIGINAL: Corpsbride

I'm a bit curious to see some takes on this: what's the difference between spanking/flogging/knife play/play piercing, tattoos, and cutting/burning one's self? They're all forms of self harm, all done with consent, and tend to be frowned on by society.

There's the part of me that goes, "well, the SM play is done for sexual satisfaction--that's the difference", but it seems to me there has to be more than that.

All activities you list have the possibility of harm depending upon how they are engaged in. Spanking/flogging/knife play/play piercing is activities that while do have elements of pain and a possibility of harm; their ultimate climax is to bring a satisfaction of some sort. Tattoos, while normally permanent are also thought to bring on a sense of pleasure.

Cutting/burning are not normally activities used to achieve the same feelings as the ones above I would think. I am not sure of the mindset of individuals who practice this type of activity and can't speak for them, but the individuals I have known, are ones who have needed counseling about issues that have prompted this form of desire to engage in this type of activity.

S/m play, like all others, is not neccessarily about sexual gradification.

So your saying its ok to take a flogging or have a needle stuck in you but if you cut (as in scarification) or burn (as in branding or cell popping) its more likely one needs counseling?
We love cell popping and we do it like a henna tattoo. It not only IMO looks beautiful but its a fantastic way of getting a head rush.
We have branded each other with a hot strike brand and we proudly wear the scars. The act of doing it was deeply intimate and hugely hedonistic. We have both cut and blood bonded ourselves and again that was a happy and memorable experience.
This is not something we do on a regular basis but its one of the darker sides to our play. The even darker side is taking a hard flogging or a caning with a dragon.

Neither of us have ever self harmed, ever had therapy or needed it, never suffered from depression, never been dysfunctional and never take any of this too seriously.

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 2:56:39 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Corpsbride

I'm a bit curious to see some takes on this: what's the difference between spanking/flogging/knife play/play piercing, tattoos, and cutting/burning one's self? They're all forms of self harm, all done with consent, and tend to be frowned on by society.

the psychological reasons that usually accompany self inflicted acts is rarely wholesome and almost never positive. it is usually done for release and an act of speaking when the person is unable or unwilling to articulate what they're feeling. as a slave, the premise of maiming myself in this manner without the explicit input and guidance of my Owner would be unfathomable. the blatant desecration of my form for whatever reasons without a willingness to confront what is bothering me would be considered self-destructive.

the physical enjoyment i receive when pain is administered is an outgrowth of him. he is the catalyst that brings the pain and release i seek. it is neither my right or responsibility to take it upon myself to perform the act myself. doing so leaves a trail of visible and mental scarring that he will be forced to grapple with. whenever communication is stifled it is inevitable an outlet will be sought. i feel there are more positive ways to express oneself than resorting to these acts. i have never met one person that practiced either that was mentally sound and merely engaging for the heck of it. there is generally a reason for their behavior.

porcelaine

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RE: Difference between BDSM and self-harm... - 9/28/2009 3:54:57 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Corpsbride
I'm a bit curious to see some takes on this: what's the difference between spanking/flogging/knife play/play piercing, tattoos, and cutting/burning one's self? They're all forms of self harm, all done with consent, and tend to be frowned on by society.

For some, BDSM includes ritual scarification and ceremonial branding, so it's not useful to define BDSM by activities (spanking is "in" but burning is "out"). Consent, however, is key, if you accept that addicts in a fundamental way are not consenting to their addictive behavior. Even people who "eat too much" would often rather have better habits and lose a few pounds. But they eat the wrong things anyway. Beating a mental illness is even harder than changing how you eat.

Cutters don't want to cut themselves, not the same way you want a piece of chocolate right now. Cutters have to cut themselves, at least until they make the decision to get extensive help and change some fundamental things about their lives.

People can get addicted to BDSM, just as people can get addicted to sex. Bottom line: is what you are doing giving you joy and making you a better person, or is it slowly destroying your life and your soul?

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